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Tips for improve accuracy at 150 yards?

Forums Benchrest Benchrest Talk Tips for improve accuracy at 150 yards?

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    tiny_cabbages
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    This is my results, i've tried a range of things now, different speed, and pellets but i can't really seem to get the groups tighter.

    So this latest results is .25 cal 34grain JSBs at 875fps. With light-med wind

    I'm using a FX crown mk1, with a 700mm barrel, and the stx liner. I'm waiting on the superior and slug liners to come to test the NSA's and hybird pellets, they dont do well at all with the STX liner.

     

    • This topic was modified 1 week ago by a Moderator.
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    JamesD.
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    Well how are the groups with those projectiles and settings at closer ranges?

     

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    c_m_shooter
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    Wind flags.  Your group is spread more horizontal than vertical.

     

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    tiny_cabbages
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    This is at 100 yards, m = 915 fps, and 5 = 900 fps, 4 = 875 fps.

    I originally tried 900 fps at 150 yard, but i notice they weren't doing well, so i dialed it down to 875 and it was a bit more accurate. I think its because at 100yard, and at 900fs, the wind doesn't have much time to affect the trajectory, and 900+ just causes too much distruption. But at 150yards, the extra speed means less time in the barrel and thus, less spin. Just a pure guess though.

     

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    tiny_cabbages
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    Ah yea a extra thing, i was trying not to correct my aim for wind, i wanted to find a combo that's good against wind. Not sure if this is even possible. Would a 30 cal do better?

    I'm waiting for some liners to arrive to test some slugs, but i just wanted to see what the limits for pellets is. As the slugs will require alot of tuning, i've only got them firing at 940 fps, i'll need to find an extra 100fps from somewhere.

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    JimNM
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    Sorry to burst your thought bubble… Same barrel at different faster speeds does not mean less spin imparted to the pellet from shorted elapsed time in said barrel.

    Faster forward motion will also mean faster radial motion.  The ratio will be exactly the same for 600 fps and 1000 fps ( until ballistic coefficient starts to slow the forward motion…that is another ball of wax for another thread…)

    Welcome to the world of airguns…it ain't simple like I thought it would be 🤪

    As an aside, you are asking quite a lot when you expect tight little groups at 150 yard .  Compare to what you can do with a .22lr at 150 yards.  Are you a proficient shootist?  There is more to the shooting system than just the gun.

    Good luck amigo!

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by JimNM.
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    Ghostranger169
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    tiny_cabbages,

    Get used to disappointment? Lower your expectations? Use a powder burner?

    But seriously, asking +100 yard and/or windy condition CONSISTENT accuracy out of any pellet is a stretch. +100 yards and/or windy contions are definitely slug/pb territory. Kinda the wrong tool for the job, imo. Hard to tell from your picture how large the 150 yard group is? 8 inches? My Crown MK1 600mm regular STX with Kings @ 900 will do a 5 inch ctc 10 shot group at 150 yards in calm conditions. Any wind and I'm lucky to hit the target.

    One thing you might try is the MK1 vs MK2 in the King Heavy. Some barrels prefer one over the other(my 600mm STX liked MK1 a little better). 

    Crown MK1 with 700mm Superior Heavy shooting .217(sorted) JSB KnockOut slugs at 890 fps:

    You see the yardage doesn't go past 125 because I couldn't consisently hit the 3 inch target circles at 150 yards.

    You're probably really gonna like it when you get your slug barrels and start shooting slugs.

    Good luck

     

     

     

     

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    boscoebrea
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    For sure those extra 50 yards give you more problems than the first 100yards…until you can consistently group great 100 yards stay there ,then go to 125 yds….it is much easier that way…you will also get some more  insight on how the wind can "push" your groups.

     Called working your way up….or chain of command.lol.

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    biohazardman
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    34gr pellet with light to medium wind at 150 yards with no wind correction.  The target looks about right.  My guess is there was a bit less wind when you shot at 100 yards.  Your 100 yard targets makes it simple what speed you should shoot that pellet at.  Shoot it faster and groups open up.  If you want decent groups with some wind at 150 yards you really need to shoot slugs.

    Ted did some tests with different barrels and different projectiles a few weeks back maybe you can find something different for your STX barrel.

     

     

     

    Looks like not allot of tests went well with the STX barrel.  I know I saw someone shooting good groups with slugs from an stx barrel but I can't find it right now.

    Just wait till you get your slug liner grab some NSA .250 slugs and then shoot some 150 yard targets.  I think you will be happy then.

     

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    Smitty8141
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    I regularly shoot out past 100 yards. Using pellets I’ve had the best luck using .30 cal. Best I’ve gotten is a 6” group at 207 yards using an FX Boss in very light wind. THE WIND KILLS PELLET ACCURACY. Especially past 100 yards. Slugs are much more forgiving in the wind past 100 yards. I was able to get an 11” group at 310 yards with a .25 cal using slugs in a fair amount of wind. I was just screwing around. Once the weather breaks and I install a cold shot, so I can raise the magnification, I hope to tighten up the group. I can’t even find the target at 310 yards with a pellet. If a butterfly farts it blows the pellet off a foot. Good luck and having fun pushing the limits of the gun. 

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    MScottLeeman
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    Get closer.

    …I googled it.

    Mike

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    JohnnyPDX
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    Smitty8141

    If a butterfly farts it blows the pellet off a foot. 

    Wind is terrible and most of the time you cannot even see it. It has created a A LOT of wtf moments for me and I was sure the majority of the issue was GUN related, nope, it's shooter and wind. 150 is long ways out and as suggested above…. lower you expectations and master 100yards first.

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by JohnnyPDX.
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    JungleShooter
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    I have found the following diagram extremely enlightening about how different errors and inaccuracies affect a shot at different ranges.

    Bob Sterne over at GTA made this, and he also published it in HardAir Magazine where he has written a bunch of very helpful articles (free online publication).

     

    From the diagram you see how the effects of both wind estimation error (you misjudging wind by only 2mph) and ranging error (2% error of your range finder) are greatly increasing with range!

    (With slugs these would be significantly smaller, though.)

     

    Matthias 

     

     

     

     

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    Centercut
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    Agree with the above. 150 yards is a long way out there. I know you see videos online of guys shooting small game and birds much farther than that, out to 200+ yards. But what they don’t show you are all their misses. What they also don’t show you is wind direction, which is just as important as wind speed.

    Think of it this way. If you have a really finely tuned gun that shoots MOA at 100 yards for 5 shot minimum groups. You’re shooting at a ground squirrel sticking his head up to see what’s going on. You’re at 150 yards and shooting at a ONE inch target. Your finely tuned gun is only capable of 1.6 inch group at that distance. So if you hit the target in IDEAL CONDITIONS you were lucky. And if there was any wind at all, or you were off ranging by more than a yard or two, you were very lucky.

    And shooting position matters also. In the field you’re not shooting off a concrete bench with your gun hard clamped into a 25 pound rest and a 15 pound rear rest that only allows forward and back motion.  My point is don’t believe all the hype you see and read on the internet. A great deal of it is exaggeration.
     A recent video shows two guys shooting soda cans at 200 and 300 yards. That’s really cool and all, and they did hit some, But if they were shooting at paper their group sizes would have been six or more inches at 200 yards and a foot or more at 300 yards. Certainly not MOA.

    Your groups at 150 yards aren’t as bad as you think…

    • This reply was modified 3 days ago by Centercut.
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    tiny_cabbages
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    Thanks everyone, yea one of the reason i asked was because I just don't know what a pellet is capable of at 150 yards, (I used to shooting .22 LRs, but i moved and not allowed to own a gun here) and watching all these videos of ppl shooting golf balls at 250 yards etc made me think that you could get a good grouping at 150yards, and i wanted to tighten up the group before moving up to my eventual aim, which was shooting at 250-300yards.

    Initally i used the 24 grain JSBs and i was getting similar results, and then i got to work tuning by gun, opened up the transfer ports, and pellet probe to shoot the 34 grain at 900fps thinking the extra weight will make it more consistent & resistent to wind, thus giving me a much tighther grouping, but because result was kinda similar it made me think that i was doing something wrong.

    The gun itself is great, its really accurate (When i adjust for the wind at 150yard, 90% of the time i can normally get within 1-2inch of the target, i shoot in the desert, so its really easy to see where the pellet lands, and the wind is very smooth due to the flat surface and consistent for about 10-15sec before it changes, then it changes massively then stays the same for another 10-15secs, its weird, but good).

     

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    Smitty8141
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    You will definitely get better results using slugs, if your gun shoots slugs with some accuracy. The funny thing is the slugs might not shoot as well at 100 yards as your pellets do, but the won't open up like pellets do at farther distances. It's a strange and magical phenomenon. That chart that Matthias posted is really a good representation of how far we open up with just a little wind and range mistake. Add in to that shooter error, we all have that, and you have an open group at 100 yards. I, and I'm sure more than a few here, enjoy this sport because it isn't easy. Keep shooting long distance, you'll figure out what you and the gun like and the groups will tighten.

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    steve123
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    5-6 years ago I was shooting my 29 fpe 22 caliber pcp at 100Y with decent success, meaning that if i was able to hit 7 out of 10 two inch round steels I was doing good. I stretched it out in 10 yard increments and it became largely a waist of ammo by 120Y.

    So I bought a 45 fpe 25 cal thinking it'd be way better. Nope, it was better in the wind but it wasn't capable of any more precision. Yes I could hit more steel at 120Y but it was pretty much a failed experiment. In contrast to my 22rf there was no comparison, especially at 150Y. 

    Take it a step further and my tiny 20 caliber centerfire cartridge varmint rifle is way better than the 22rf at distance and is affected by wind even less.

    It comes down to BC, velocity(mostly), and how tight the gun shoots. Though pellets seem to wack out at a more accelerated rate than bullets do so there is this additional problem. Go look at the EBR benchrest threads to see how much better a pellet gun shoots at 75Y vs 100Y!

    Yep I'd go for slugs in your case and settle for 1.5 moa in calm conditions. If your gun puts 4 into 1/2" at 100Y and one goes out high or low making a 1.5" group, and this happens often, you don't have 1/2" gun, you have a 1.5" gun, just sayin. If only I had a 2" PCP using slugs at 150Y, oh boy !

    The internet = if it seems too good to be true then it probably isn't true. Don't let cherry picked groups in calm conditions make you feel bad, and that's if some of these people are even telling the truth…… Now if a person is shooting $4000 air rifles, off perfectly steady benches, with super nice rests, and shows a bunch of 247 to 250 score BR cards at 50Y, well that's believable. Or on that vane if they prove themselves in other shooting disciplines.

     

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    Odoyle
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    Buy an old unregulated (PRE smooth twist Lothar Walther) 22 FX Tarantula long version (typically sells for around $500-$550 shipped) and try 18.1gr JSB and the AA and Edgun and FX version which one the gun actually prefers.

    You be surprised how accurate it is at 150 yards compared to any modern day high end regulated gun.

    The RWS 54 and 56 spring guns too.

     

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