Tips and Suggestion to Improve Accuracy on Longer Shots

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Ezana4CE

Ezana4CE

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Jan 15, 2021
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I mostly shoot my EDgun Lelya offhand, kneeling, and sitting. Within 25-30 yards shooting 25.39 grain JSB Match King Diabolo pellets I’m hitting my target more often than not, way more. When I get to 40-50 yards I suck. I haven’t practiced beyond 62 yards. When I do practice it’s pretty flat shooting meaning that my targets are close to level with the muzzle of my rifle give or take about 3 feet depending on the position. 

At 62 yards shooting freehand and braced against a tree my groups are extremely wide. Simply put, I don’t shoot this gun well at all outside of my comfort zone. I’ve taken several shots over the weekend between 50-60 yards away at targets 20-50 feet up in a tree and I miss just about every time. I’ve tried different holdovers and either miss cleanly, hit a branch between the target and I, or I can see the and hear pellets smacking parts of the tree around the animal. 


I want to learn to drop my quarry from 50 yards, but I’m not sure what the proper steps are. I’ve tried shooting pine cones still attached to the tree within 25 yards and that helped my figure the trajectory on the pellets while shooting upward at relatively close range. Vertical overhead shots are still a challenge, but 50 yards and beyond a mezzanine with popcorn shots for animals. They can just sit there snacking and watching me without much to worry about with this gun in my hands. 

My Lelya is tuned to shoot JSB Match King Diabolo .25, 25.39 grain pellets at around 775 fps average. I’m told the reg is set at 110 bar. I don’t have a reg tester so it will stay there for now. If anyone has any suggestions, I could use them. This is driving me nuts. I’m open to advice. 
 
This is just a ruff guess or your dope chart without knowing you exact scope height.

6BB3894D-BBA2-4E71-B7EB-79CB29DC4E0F.1636947208.png



When shooting up or down slope your hold over will decrease. The steeper the angle the less you need to hold over.

As far as group size at 50 yards off hand that’s a tough one. If you can get a table and a rest I would start there. See what the rifle can do under best conditions possible. Then move to offhand. If the rifle only gets one inch groups at fifty from a rest, just throwing that number out there, you at least have a baseline. Offhand shooting is a challenge.



 
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@Wildcj5 and @JimNM Thank you both. I didn’t spend a lot of time shooting this gun before hunting with it. It’s light weight and compact size made it a very convenient for woods walking, but the feel and operation of the gun of took some getting used to. Then when I started hunting and taking animals with it I was surprised and just went with what was effective. I’d gotten away from table shooting because I’m not too good at it and I couldn’t think of many scenarios where I’d be shooting from a table. I have a little portable table that isn’t too sturdy. Not like table at the range.


Establishing a baseline at 50 yards from a table sounds like a good idea. One issue for me at longer distances is seeing where the pellets are hitting, even on animals. I hit a squirrel in the head yesterday evening from 25-30 yards from a sitting position (on the ground) in some brush and couldn’t tell exactly where it was hit because it quickly fell, swung down, and hung onto the branch by a toe for a few seconds. I sent a follow up shot before if dropped from the tree. When I collected it before calling it a day, it was shot between the eye and ear just behind the eye. The follow up went through the shoulder and chest (I would post a photo but I don’t want to disturb any readers since this isn’t the hunting forum). These types of shots become more challenging to see and make adjustments from farther out, in low light, shooting from a position with a glare or towards the sun, or when my target moves immediately. I’m using an FFP scope so I don’t have to worry about my holdover changing at different magnifications. 


This morning I was thinking about possible solutions. I’m considering hoisting and suspending targets up a tree and shooting them from 50 yards to see how and where my shots are hitting. I’d like to compare the tree targets to ground targets so I can see how the pellets are traveling when shooting at steeper angles. Has anyone tried this before?
 
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Do some well supported bench shooting with various pellets. You might find that your favorite 25 yard pellet doesn't work at 50. Ultimately, you have to know the mechanical limit of your rifle/pellet combination. If 2 inch groups at 50 yards is the proven product, then the best shooter in the world is going to miss most squirrels at 50 yards. Once you know the limit of your rifle, you have to be attentive to range finding, and have the discipline to pass on opportunities that are too far. And most importantly, practice dilligently within your distance limitation. I shoot so poorly offhand, I don't even consider it when hunting, and always stop at a tree that offers support for a shot. 
 
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@wildcj5 I’ll look into it. I’ve read posts of people using Strelok and Chairgun. I have never seen or used the apps personally. Up until this point I have been adjusting my shots on the fly using holdover(under) and windage markings. I haven’t been dialing my scopes while shooting. I guess I’ve reached my limit with the way I’ve been shooting with this gun/scope combo without assistance. A while back I purchased a bubble level that also measures incline. When it arrived I was wondering when I would use that feature and for what. I guess I know now. Thank you. 


Edit: added another detail about scope level and photo. Here’s the level

7CCCA0AF-7925-41EA-A34C-2D9AFD5107E7.1636983470.jpeg



 
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Do some well supported bench shooting with various pellets. You might find that your favorite 25 yard pellet doesn't work at 50. Ultimately, you have to know the mechanical limit of your rifle/pellet combination. If 2 inch groups at 50 yards is the proven product, then the best shooter in the world is going to miss most squirrels at 50 yards. Once you know the limit of your rifle, you have to be attentive to range finding, and have the discipline to pass on opportunities that are too far. And most importantly, practice dilligently within your distance limitation. I shoot so poorly offhand, I don't even consider it when hunting, and always stop at a tree that offers support for a shot.
Click to expand...

Good support for bench shooting is another issue. A lead sled ok for basic sighting in for traditional length air rifles, but the but of the stock often isn’t secure in this device so I tend to move the rifle between shots. The main issue is me. I move and I move the guns when cocking them. That combined with my Caldwell shooting bags and somewhat wobbly shooting table doesn’t make for great stability. Also with this little compact I’m thinking I should use some sort of shooting vice that can clamp it down and hold it steady. I really don’t know. What do you suggest as a good support for the EDgun Lelya 2.0 for testing purposes?
 
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I like shooting from a bipod, especially with the compacts... but that's me. Some testing from prone might be beneficial as that's very stable with a bipod.

My main comment here is why do you use 25.4s? The 18.1s seem like they would be MUCH easier and more successful if they do well in that rifle. I've personally not seen a rifle that does well with 25.4s that shoots poorly with 18.1s IF the velocity is kept reasonable.

Bob
 
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I like shooting from a bipod, especially with the compacts... but that's me. Some testing from prone might be beneficial as that's very stable with a bipod.

My main comment here is why do you use 25.4s? The 18.1s seem like they would be MUCH easier and more successful if they do well in that rifle. I've personally not seen a rifle that does well with 25.4s that shoots poorly with 18.1s IF the velocity is kept reasonable.

Bob
Click to expand...

I’m shooting a .25 Lelya. 25.39 grain are the lighter .25 JSB pellets. 
 
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Dave, bullpups are a challenge to shoot well, from any position. The only one I own is a Taipan Veteran, which has ample room up front for mounting a bipod on the stock. After looking at some pictures, I don't have a solution for you. I think heavy sandbag support might be the best option. Frankly, I find the whole bullpup thing ironic. They are heavily marketed as field rifles, but I find them much more difficult to shoot in hunting scenarios, but it's a personal thing. If I were in your situation, I would probably have to go to a traditional rifle format for hunting. Sorry, I know that doesn't answer your question, and I hope you find a solution.
 
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For angled shots, a range finder with the incline-o-meter function built in will help you get on target with the first shot. Incline shooting is not hard, and shooting a bull pup is not any more difficult to shoot for people who have not already made up their mind that the problem is the tool rather than the fool using it. Don't let internet wife tales get into your OODA loop - those little brain worms of doubt will make your life harder than it needs to be.

Observe 

Orient

Decide 

Act

then go back and start again .... OODA-OODA-OODA-OODA-OODA



Shoot'em good


 
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All great suggestions here !! One thing I noticed in your posts, " this gun is nice and light weight"... This can be a problem shooting offhand...most good offhand shooters will tell you weight adds stability!! The lighter the gun the more it wobbles and Lord knows we all wobble!! Also keep in mind a tiny wobble at 25 yds means a small miss but that same small wobble at 50 yards is 4 times greater miss. Years back I wanted to become a good offhand shooter, besides lots of practice, I added a couple pounds to my rifle in various places to get the balance how I wanted it, then presto...my groups shrunk tremendously!!! Also shoot on paper to check your offhand groups sizes, aiming at a smaller target in practise will help you learn your wobble pattern, and also allow you to see how far off you actually are. Guessing will never help! Good luck!
 
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Because I had been doing exclusively bench rest shooting from a seated position, I sucked at freehand shooting until I started doing freehand shooting and trigger pull techniques similar to what archer's use. It is working to shrink my freehand groups. Archer's aim by letting the sight pin "float" around the target and touch off the trigger anticipating when the pin is about to cross the center of their target again. While aiming at the target the float gets smaller and smaller, touching off the trigger as the float gets smallest and timing when the pin will be crossing the target again in it's float. "Aim small, miss small."
 
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I rarely practice shooting offhand anymore. I admire those who are good at lt, but IMO, its not a practical skill for a squirrel hunter. I've known service rifle shooters who shoot remarkably well offhand, but none of them shoot that way when hunting, except under very unusual circumstances. There is simply no need. Even the best of them will admit, the chance of a miss or bad hit is much greater when not taking advantage of some type of support. There are many types of shooting sticks made, and that can work well. Since my squirrel hunting is in the woods, I generally make use of a small to medium size tree for support, which is where I stop and watch for an opportunity. I shoot at my range when there is often no one else there. The vertical roof supports make good practice locations for my type of woods hunting. So, good luck with your offhand shooting practice, but if your specific goal is consistent hits at 50 yards or more, I think it might be misplaced practice.
 
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Thanks for all of the replies. To those I found helpful I will try to incorporate elements of what you have suggested into my practice regimen. There is some good looking information in this thread. I haven’t done a lot of ammo testing with this rifle I may have tested five types of pellets and a couple types of slugs. I still want to do more slug testing so I haven’t been shooting those outside of target practice. I practice from the three positions mentioned as well as others. I’ve gotten away from practicing prone and seated at a table. Shooting seated to establish a baseline for a gun’s performance is a great suggestion. I can’t see how utilizing software is practical for field use, but I see how doping can be more useful for a specific style of hunting.


I hunt animals of various sizes and I will shoot them from different positions. Without using hunting dogs I prefer to stalk animals. I also enjoy tracking them. When I’m stalking I am often moving amongst plants that are as tall or taller than I when seated or kneeling. Sometimes I stand up to take my shot. I am comfortable with this. Using trees as a brace is nice, but at times I find myself next to a young thin tree and leaning on it will shake it. If I try moving towards the trunk that is surrounded by leaves on the ground and waist-high undergrowth too much sound and movement risks giving up my location. Other times I am around trees with poison ivy or briar vines wrapped around them I really try to avoid leaning against them. I could be holed up in a thicket where my only movements are rotational with an upward view into the trees and standing and kneeling are the best two options to shoot from. My point is that many situations present unique challenges and opportunities and my options aren’t always ideal. I enjoy confronting these challenges, but the limitations are real. I will pass on a shot in certain situations. Generally I’ll watch the animal to learn from it if I give it a pass. I have taken shots where I thought the animal was hit and it ran away or flew off. I have also missed completely at various ranges. I learn from my mistakes. If you aren’t a hunter I don’t expect you to understand my rationale or all that I’m saying. I’m no master hunter and I have plenty to learn.

I really suck at bench styled shooting and I’m not a consistent “hole-in-hole” shooter especially at longer ranges. However, I do enjoy punching paper to hone my abilities. I don’t like dialing scopes for some reason. I believe that I can learn from a lot of the advice given here and improve in various areas for other styles of shooting. I think the testing information in this thread is most helpful in order to better identify a gun’s capabilities and limitations. Hopefully others will read what you all wrote and be able to glean things applicable to their situations. I could go on, but I feel like I’m rambling now so I will wrap it up with this: thanks guys for open and honest advice without attacking my choices, limitations, or ignorance. The respondents to this thread (and threads like it) really make me appreciate the AGN community even more. 
 
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Sorry... guess my observation skills have slipped on the ammo. Still, it seems like shooting very far with that low of velocity is a difficult scenario.

On the skills part, I fully get your style. I prefer to stalk hunt similar to what you describe. The first thing to me is to fully understand the capabilities of the rifle/ammo. This would have to be from a solid, stable position. Next, the wind... if there is wind where you hunt, you're going to need some predictable practice sessions to figure it out well.... again - solid, stable position. Probably most important is practice . I made all kinds of things to shoot at for fun ... spinners, paintballs and other small targets scattered around, etc and shot them a LOT. My house down in the city was on a lead mine by the time I moved from there. When you can shoot extremely well in the easy positions, you'll find the more difficult ones to be just a matter of finding your poi. I don't have a formula for that for you but until fairly steep angles, I hold the same as level, straight up seems like I have to hold under because of the scope zero, and the rest is in between.

Could be bad memory but I don't remember having to shoot much of anything twice and always strove to have it drop on the spot or not shoot it. I've definitely not had to shoot any big game more than once so feel that all my plinking set the stage for that.

I never practiced with INTENT for a lot of years and feel that this will shortcut all the lead I put down range to acquire the skills. Hope some of this may help but have FUN at it, regardless.

Bob
 
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Only way to shoot longer is to shoot longer! There is no replacement for trigger time and add some tips from many memebers here you will be knocking them down in no time. setup multiple targets at various distances and shoot random things at range at different distances really helps with learning the trajectory and how to adjust for it. Doesn’t hurt to learn the ballistic of your tune so you have a mental map of the trajectory. Or just print out strelok drop table and tape it on your gun somewhere but you still need to find the range somehow.


No need to focus on equipment, just some fundamentals and you will be good. 
 
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