Thoughts on sorting JSB MKI's

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jking

jking

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May 12, 2015
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Hobbs NM, United States
I just sorted by weight 4 tins of MKI Heavies while it was too cold to do anything else. Now I'm contemplating my next sorting procedure. My goal is to tighten my groups at longer distant and as a secondary, not ending up with a bunch of sub groups. I have a Pellet Gage on the way so that will probably be my next sorting method. After that I may Yrrah roll some after I size the skirts and get them all uniform. As seen in the photo I have good numbers (close to 3 full tins) of 33.4's through 33.9's. Probably 350-375 34.0 to 34.3 between two tins if combined, a small group of 34.4-34.5's on the heavy end and a very small group of 33.1-33.3 that I may not do anything with as far as further sorting. I'm leaning toward combining the 33.4's through 33.9's and the 34.0 to 34.3's. I don't think .5 and .3 grains will be noticeable to an average non-competitive shooter like myself. Maybe under ideal indoor conditions at longer range but I don't have that luxury. Anyone have any thoughts on where I'm going with this?...Let me rephrase the last sentence, Anyone have any better ideas/suggestions? Trying to keep it as simple as possible and not completely ruin the fun of shooting.
jk
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Jimmy,
AJshoots did a thread on using a Lee sizing press. He felt that the diameter was more important than the weight. However, now that you have them separated, getting the correct diameter for your barrel may be your next step. You can find the thread under his forum. I used to have it marked but most of my "BookMarked" were lost. I have been resisting going down this rabbit hole but I am sure I will eventually. Let us know how when you get that "magic pellet"!
Best of luck,

Doc
 
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Hey Doc, Yeah I was following AJ's lead and have been sizing some. Seems like just sizing the skirts and getting them all the same has helped a tad over factory skirt sizes. I'm only hitting them with a .252" which doesn't even touch the head itself. I have an assortment of NOE sizing dies so eventually as things progress I'll try the heads too. I think once I can confirm head size with the Pellet Gage while sorting and then maybe running those through a .252' skirt sizing die that ought to set them up for some serious roll sorting. I wouldn't expect to see much variance at that point. Don't get me wrong, my guns shoot terrifically and I'm really happy with the accuracy of all of them. Just trying to gain a little more long range accuracy and weed out the flyers.
Oh, btw saw where the trip to Arizona wasn't too great. Wish it would have turned out better. One of these days you'll have to come down this direction and I'll show you some birds.
Jimmy
 
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"sirk"if your scale was capable of higher resolution. like if it was capable of distinguishing 33.10 -33.15
would you have twice as many groups?
sado maso man,
instead find a gun which is not pellet fussy, i have got a few and forget this sorting nightmare
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if your gun shoots a 33.0 grain pellet the same as a 34.8 grain then wow please tell us about your gun. Lmao theres in the ballpark of 15 fps difference from these to different weights. I know by your response that your gun is not capabale of the accuracy required for this sort of testing. 
 
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"Birdslayer25"
"sirk"if your scale was capable of higher resolution. like if it was capable of distinguishing 33.10 -33.15
would you have twice as many groups?
sado maso man,
instead find a gun which is not pellet fussy, i have got a few and forget this sorting nightmare
Click to expand...
if your gun shoots a 33.0 grain pellet the same as a 34.8 grain then wow please tell us about your gun. Lmao theres in the ballpark of 15 fps difference from these to different weights. I know by your response that your gun is not capabale of the accuracy required for this sort of testing. 


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Not sure what you mean by this statement but I would beg to differ if you have followed this man's posts. He has posted some amazing groups at 75 and 100 yards. Like many people on this forum we strive for excellence. I believe he is "shooting" for that MOA at 100 yards and beyond. Jimmy owns a Royal and a RAW. Not sure if there are very many models that can shoot better. He is trying to improve the ballistics of his rifle. The main problem with air rifles is the inconsistency of the ammunition. Matt Dubber just did an interesting video on this topic. (He is working with FX to match a pellet/bullet with an ideal twist rate.)
Having a more uniform pellet should in theory improve the POI. Granted, there is only so much it can do, however, unless you test your theory you have no way of knowing. Although at shorter ranges this (size and weight) may not be a factor, at 100 yrds and longer it can determine what place you end up at EBR or a miss on a pigeon. If you followed Ted's videos, eventually he had to move back to over 75 yards or the pigeons spooked off their perch. The slightest of error at longer ranges will determine a miss or contact. Having reliable ammo would help in this endeavor for better accuracy. 
If your goal is MOA at 100 yards with an air rifle, you may in fact have to chase down this rabbit hole.
Jimmy, keep us posted with your progress.

FYI- any more negative posts will result is a Flag to a moderator by me
Doc



Click to expand...
 
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"Birdslayer25"
"sirk"if your scale was capable of higher resolution. like if it was capable of distinguishing 33.10 -33.15
would you have twice as many groups?
sado maso man,
instead find a gun which is not pellet fussy, i have got a few and forget this sorting nightmare
Click to expand...
if your gun shoots a 33.0 grain pellet the same as a 34.8 grain then wow please tell us about your gun. Lmao theres in the ballpark of 15 fps difference from these to different weights. I know by your response that your gun is not capabale of the accuracy required for this sort of testing. 

I know there's a difference in POI with the lighter and heavier pellets. As mentioned in my opening post I won't do anything with the extremely light 33.1's to 33.3's other than use them to re-season a barrel. The same holds true with the extreme few on the heavy end. I'm looking at just working with the lots that have minimum difference and high numbers of pellets.
And no... my gun is not capable of shooting good enough to test for different pellet sorting techniques....
4429bd7e6186d115d6b0d3c2f2ed1915.jpg





Click to expand...
 
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"NMshooter"
"Birdslayer25"
"sirk"if your scale was capable of higher resolution. like if it was capable of distinguishing 33.10 -33.15
would you have twice as many groups?
sado maso man,
instead find a gun which is not pellet fussy, i have got a few and forget this sorting nightmare
Click to expand...
if your gun shoots a 33.0 grain pellet the same as a 34.8 grain then wow please tell us about your gun. Lmao theres in the ballpark of 15 fps difference from these to different weights. I know by your response that your gun is not capabale of the accuracy required for this sort of testing. 
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Not sure what you mean by this statement but I would beg to differ if you have followed this man's posts. He has posted some amazing groups at 75 and 100 yards. Like many people on this forum we strive for excellence. I believe he is "shooting" for that MOA at 100 yards and beyond. Jimmy owns a Royal and a RAW. Not sure if there are very many models that can shoot better. He is trying to improve the ballistics of his rifle. The main problem with air rifles is the inconsistency of the ammunition. Matt Dubber just did an interesting video on this topic. (He is working with FX to match a pellet/bullet with an ideal twist rate.)
Having a more uniform pellet should in theory improve the POI. Granted, there is only so much it can do, however, unless you test your theory you have no way of knowing. Although at shorter ranges this (size and weight) may not be a factor, at 100 yrds and longer it can determine what place you end up at EBR or a miss on a pigeon. If you followed Ted's videos, eventually he had to move back to over 75 yards or the pigeons spooked off their perch. The slightest of error at longer ranges will determine a miss or contact. Having reliable ammo would help in this endeavor for better accuracy. 
If your goal is MOA at 100 yards with an air rifle, you may in fact have to chase down this rabbit hole.
Jimmy, keep us posted with your progress.
FYI- any more negative posts will result is a Flag to a moderator by me
Doc
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Bro Im not argueing with you. Sirk is who im talking to. Im all for weighing and sorting pellets i do it and it works. 
 
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"sirk"if your scale was capable of higher resolution. like if it was capable of distinguishing 33.10 -33.15
would you have twice as many groups?
sado maso man,
instead find a gun which is not pellet fussy, i have got a few and forget this sorting nightmare
Click to expand...
I was only talking to this guy. My point is my guns arent pellet fussy and that weighing pellets will only make your gun better. Idk how you guys have this so turned around
 
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Jking,
This post is great. Your work is appreciated. Just tonight I sorted a few MK1’s and shot them over the chrony. Nothing compared to the quantity that you’ve sorted but just enough to shoot three full magazines (12 pellets) and see what fps variations the different groups would produce. I didn’t size at all only sorted by weight.

I have a power tuned .25 Cricket. The 33.3 to 33.6 shot at an average of 930 fps. The 33.7 to 34 shot at an average of 920 fps. I then shot the lighter 32.9 to 33.2 and they averaged 942 fps. The testing samples were so small that more testing would need to be done to confirm averages but wow, I was surprised at the results. Just a 1.1 gr difference produced a 22 fps difference. You will definitely see that when shooting at 75 plus yards in my opinion. 

Another very noticeable difference when shooting weighed pellets was how much tighter the standard deviations and extreme spreads are verses shooting straight from the tin. 
 
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"zx10wall" I was surprised at the results. Just a 1.1 gr difference produced a 22 fps difference. You will definitely see that when shooting at 75 plus yards in my opinion. 

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Using a 50yd zero, a scope height of 2.5", and a BC of .0525 (for the Kings) you will see a difference of .75" at 100 yds changing from 920fps to 942fps......according to Strelok+

75" could certainly throw off a MOA group. .75" high on a squirrels or collard dove's head is likely going right over the top.
 
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