Those Super Long Shots..

Alright, I don't claim to be an expert by any means in the ethics of hunting, but here's my quick 2c. Everyone agrees that hunting involves some risk of injury to the animal (haha perhaps a bit of an understatement, but you know what I mean). That's the first thing we agree on. The second thing we agree on is the fact that hunting is still an ethical activity despite that risk to the animal. We also agree that some hunters take too much risk. So our disagreement is simply (maybe also an understatement) what level of risk-of-injury is acceptable.

Finding the perfect level of risk is clearly a squirrelly (haha) issue to handle conclusively on paper. It is only in the field that the decision can really be made, shot by shot. This is partly because no two shots are exactly alike (okay, except maybe that .22LR testing azuaro) and partly because us nuts behind the bolts are all at different skill levels.

Here's my personal opinion for what it's worth. I'll start with where I agree with azuaro. There are lots of irresponsible hunters out there that give everyone a bad name, and the advent of YouTube is a catalyst for the harm they are doing. That said, lots of perfectly conservative shots would have the same liberals up in arms anyways, but that's a different point. Where I disagree with azuaro is in condemning all shots over a certain yardage, or with a certain type of (air)gun. There are /way/ too may variables to count out the possibility of taking a shot at over 100yrds with an airgun with an acceptable level of risk to the animal. Because remember--no one (I think) is saying that we can't allow any risk to the animal. To say that would be anti-hunting, which non of us are. It's just all about what level of risk is ethical, and that's 1) a personal decision and 2) one that's really hard to concretely define ahead of time on paper like this.

As I said, I'm no expert in any of this. If someone disagrees with me, please rip into my argument rather than my credibility. I admit it right now--I'm not the most experienced guy here. I'm probably the least. I just wanted to say I think we all agree that some risk of injury is okay, that many hunters take too much risk, and I hope we can all agree that it's a fairly personal thing that isn't easily debatable on a forum like this. Maybe that'll help. That's my hope, but if not just move on lightly.

man this thread is nast and there are a lot of good points but this statement is what gets me
“shooting a large animal with an arrow. Talk about cruel. What a horrible death by bleeding to death. It takes the animal a long time to die”.
Not personal but this statement tells me you are not a hunter nor have a clue of what happens when you hunt at close distances (20 yards). After an animal is shot, it runs a few yards, usually around 20-30 and then stops for finding out what was the noise he heard (arrow hitting him) and looks back to where he was or turns his head looking for movement in the surroundings…Then they either keep on feeding or walk slowly to a different area and suddenly fall dead…
If you read the statistics from the police departments you will find out that people who were stabbed and lived say they didn’t feel the stabbing…Another interesting factor is that neither the survivors nor the dead screamed from pain…
A gun shot will be the same effect but this response is about arrows as you see them…

a gun and a bow are 2 vary different aspects and as I kid I hunted dear with my father so I know when you have a bad shot just how far game can run because it bleeds out same with an arrow but really an arrow is just as bad my father taught me if the shot doesn't put him down within 30 feet of where you shot don't shoot because if it can run 20 yards it could run 50 maybe 100 and you have to track it and what if you lose the animal in the night what a waste but that's just the kill but to think that animal doesn't feel the shot or the fact there's an arrow sticking out of him I don't see how you can think that as most broad heads are meant to spread the wound causing as much BLEED OUT as possible as the animal runs so yea you may be right a single stab wound in a lot of areas probably wont be felt but now lets start sawing away at it .. better yet have you ever had a deep stab wound can you personally attest to how this animal is feeling threw yourself on what's going on really you cannot so it now down to what's most effective its like getting shot in the stomach or the heart or being stabbed 3-4 times to go down over shot twice you right a high speed bullet kills with shock and a pellet although carries a little is not enough for organ shutdown which is why any ethical hunter knows he wants that head or heart shot at really any range

lMy point was not to bash bow hunting but to state I have an "opinion" that" I personally think bow hunting is cruel". However, a bow hunter that is ethical and knows his equipment has the right to do so, therefore, my opinion does not mean a whole lot! Conversely, your "opinion" on air rife hunting is the same. If I only take shots I know I can take, I should not be judged for doing so. You make a GREAT point, as ethical hunters we should not indiscriminately wound an animal or take a life without purpose.
I believe there are more ethical hunters than slugs. It is unfortunate that these slugs are what the public sees and what you are trying to prevent. On opening day of duck season, I see these A-holes all the time ruining the hunt for all thoughs around! We have a lot of good people on this forum and unfortunately this thread may be preaching to the choir. 
Again, my intent was not to offend the ethical bow hunters on this forum but, mearly to articulate the obsurdity of an "opinion" about bow hunting or air rifle hunting without taking the ethics of the hunter! I appreciate your concern and agree we should think before we shoot!
Thanks again for this debate,
Doc

...see what happens when you try to put a concrete std. on ethics? Everyone has a different opinion.

I say use your better judgment. REALLY if your not sure about the shot the distance and accuracy straight up don't take it. Its called practice for a reason not everyone practices shooting at the same distances and has the steady hand that others may have.

If you haven't wounded a deer with a bow you haven't kill very many. Sooner or later it happens. Same with any type of hunting close or far. If you have the power and skill doesn't mean you won't screw up sometime 

Thanks for explaining yourself, but your rude approach with a lack of an explaination to begin with lead to things being taken personal with you leading the way!!

It is crazy that in your part of the country there are proposals to regulate airgun hunting, but in my part of the country states are opening up hunting to airguns and it is gaining traction. Even a very liberal state like Michigan has declassified airguns as firearms and even allow black bear hunting with .35 and larger airguns for the first time this season! Keep in mind that just a year or so ago, Michigan had very strict airgun laws and treated them like firearms. That has all been dissolved and airgun hunting is becoming legal. Here in my home state of Ohio, airguns are finally listed and recognized as a legal method to hunt almost everything. Folks like me are still pushing and hope to see deer added to the list in the coming years.

Why does fish and game in your area have jurisdiction over multiple states? You said that your buddies boss is over the whole NW. In Ohio, only ODNR(Ohio Department of Natural Resources) makes hunting and fishing laws for the state of Ohio. Guess that is another reason you are looking to lose rights out west and we are gaining them here.

Right now this is a small niche in the overall gun field. The high end guns are a small percentage of the overall sales of air guns in this country. Most people have no clue,nor can perceive the costs associated with putting together a high end pcp. You could easily purchase several non speced "assault rifles" for the cost of a high end gun, scope and tank combo. I for one don't understand the need to broadcast these, videos, lobby for hunting rights, and throw it in the face of lawmakers. The thoughts gaining hunting rights is a double edged sword, with a swipe of the pen, you can be subject to firearm rules. There are already towns that ban the use of projectile launching items that propel an object over 300 fps.(paintball, slingshots, bow or crossbow, and of course BB guns.) AZ you were right on most of your post, it started with a 300 yard pipe dream shot. I have no problem with hunting, and better than a tin of pellets have found their way into various unregulated pests in the last year. As for big game it takes a high degree of skill, and patience. This is something that is acquired over time. Look at Mannys videos, he absolutely SEES the shot. This skill is something that is learned, he honed his skill with a bow, He was probably one of the first to test penetration, and knew exactly what to expect. This skill is not generally shown by a lottery slot winning rookie hunter. I've seen deer taken with everything you can imagine, and then some. I've seen a deer run almost 200 yards with a 660 grain 1800fps 4800fpe slug with a high lung shot. The 20 gauge slug was abandoned by all I know. I'm picturing a treed bear hanging on as someone looks for a vital spot to punch a hole in it with a 125 fpe or better gun, not wanting to ruin the head. Too each his own. right now being able to order, and shoot without too many regs is nice, just hope it stays that way.

Pests are just that, pests. 

I will take any shot I feel the need to on a pest (starlings for instance). A wounded pest just makes an easier meal for a local predator, which is still beneficial in the end.

Its called common sense, which unfortunately is being bred out of existence at an alarming rate. 

Also, look up the definition of a liberal.