The times they are a changing, even here. My recent WTB experience

Recently, I placed a WTB ad. I was specific as to the type of gun I wanted. Three members responded. Here's what happened:



Member #1 writes me and says he has one. Upon contacting him, he tells me he traded for one, but he has not received it yet but when he gets it, he will sell it to me. Shows me an FX case full of stuff, supposedly what he bought. I write the other two members and tell them I found one. He writes me back and says the gun arrived, he scopes it, runs out and shoots it, likes it and no longer wants to sell it.



#2-an FX dealer. I write him about a comparable FX product. Oh, I'm at RMAC, puts on his website that he will return on 9-3-21, knowing full well he is not coming back until 9-7-21, after Labor Day. I write him on 9-7-21. He asks me what caliber I'm interested in and I tell him again. I wanted some things added to the gun before shipping-silence. I write him 3 times-silence. The only reason I bought from this dealer is that he could do the add-ons (bought $4,700 worth of guns from him the last 2 years. OK, go make your living being a competition shooter.



#3 (member)- I contact him and tell him what happened with member #1, and ask him if he still wants to sell. Yes, he says that he has one in bronze. He gives me the price, and insists on PP F&F, even if I pay the fee. I break my own rule (he and all the members have good feedback), and send the $$, before he sent the pic. I asked for. He sends a pic. The gun is not bronze, it is black. Pic shows heavy use on the Picatinny rail and moderator. Oh, and he pests for a living. In all fairness, he returned my $$ immediately when I voiced my concerns. A truly honest man.



#4 (member)- I contact the last guy who originally responded when member #1 fell through. I write him at like 9:30 PM asking for pics/info and go to bed without receiving a response. He is on the East coast, I am in CO. He writes me at 4:00 AM my time. I respond to him shortly like 6 or 7 AM. He has sent me pics. The gun he claims was silver is black with and aluminum handgrip and a blue cheek piece. He says he did the install on the Power Plenum. The gun also has a bigger bottle (more shots I know, but now no longer a compact), and because a short fat moderator will hit the bigger bottle he put a Huggett on, slim enough to clear. He says he can put the smaller 300cc bottle back on, and I'm thinking, OK that might work. While waiting for him to respond, I take a look at the Classifieds. At 6:00 AM without even giving me a chance to respond to his 4AM post, he already posted it in for sale. Nice. While negotiating with me privately, he posts it for sale. He made clear he didn't really care, I could buy it, or he knew someone else will.



Here's what I learned:



All these members had good feedback. Feedback is only a guide. The only feedback that matters is yours.



Someone can have good feedback as a buyer, but not as a seller.



Most these members have been here for 3-6 years. So length of membership is no guarantee.



Always request several quality pictures. and do not buy until you get them.



If the gun has been worked on, ask who did the work. Don't trust the skills of the seller



If the seller insists on PP F&F even if you will pay the fees, DO NOT BUY, no matter how much you want the item. I was very lucky to get my $$ back.
 


If the seller insists on PP F&F even if you will pay the fees, DO NOT BUY, no matter how much you want the item. I was very lucky to get my $$ back.

^^^^ Pro Tip right there. I will always send G&S even if they say F&F. If I pay the fees, it shouldn't matter one bit to them. They're going to get exactly the $$ they asked for. Can't imagine why someone would insist on F&F if the seller pays the fees.
 
I see your point but if I'm negotiating with someone I'm still going to the first person who says they'll take it and pay buy a certain time. 

More than once I've had a buyer insist he's buying it only to have them completely stop any communication or tell me hours or days after we were to finish the deal that they aren't interested anymore. As part of this, when someone says they'll take it and we're still finishing the deal up they get first dibs no matter how much someone else offers. 
 
It's gotten to where I will only deal with members here that I have a gauge of character for. And I will almost always send F&F because I know beyond a doubt I can trust them. I might break that rule to buy a small item here or there and will not use F&F, but for larger more serious purchases.... I don't have time for BS, I'd rather order full retail. 


 
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If the seller insists on PP F&F even if you will pay the fees, DO NOT BUY, no matter how much you want the item. I was very lucky to get my $$ back.

^^^^ Pro Tip right there. I will always send G&S even if they say F&F. If I pay the fees, it shouldn't matter one bit to them. They're going to get exactly the $$ they asked for. Can't imagine why someone would insist on F&F if the seller pays the fees.

If a seller insists on PP F&F even if you pay the fee, it’s only for one reason-the buyer has zero recourse. That should tell you (and me) all you need to know
 
It's gotten to where I will only deal with members here that I have a gauge of character for. And I will almost always send F&F because I know beyond a doubt I can trust them. I might break that rule to buy a small item here or there and will not use F&F, but for larger more serious purchases.... I don't have time for BS, I'd rather order full retail. 


I agree. In this case it is a gun which has a newer version (one of which I already own, but prefer the previous version) so I cannot buy it new, not to mention the dealers are just as bad or worse. They want 100% prepay, lie through their teeth about delivery, and put you on their do not sell list when after waiting 3X their promised delivery time you have the nerve to ask for a refund.
 
 

Maybe its just me, but I have had really good experiences on AGN with the Classifieds. I have purchased numerous Airguns (6 rifles, 1 pistol) and many barrel kits and other accessories. I have sold 7 air rifles and a number of various accessories. Virtually all of these have been F&F.

I have (so far) only had one experience that left a bad taste in my mouth, and that was on my first sale, when the buyer , after having the gun for a while, claimed that it would shift its POI every day. It grouped fine, but tomorrow POI would shift. (And no, it was not a FX and never had a moving POI with me. Suffice to say that I would not deal with that person again (by the way, he kept it for months, then eventually sold it in the classifieds - no mention of shifting POI in his ad).

Every single other transaction has been perfect! Now, I do look up the members before I make an offer or respond with a PM. I often talk with them too, so I agree that doing due diligence is important. I’ll take PayPal F&F, or G&S with the higher fee. Often I will simply say PayPal in my ad. Most people assume (and pay) F&F, but some do G&S and I’m OK with that.

As for the guy posting the gun in the classifieds while you were negotiating, I am not too bothered by that. If he sold it without giving you the chance to respond then that would be bad, but until you say “I’ll take it” I think its fair for him to keep (or start) trying to sell it. I recently sold a Wildcat MK3 here. I can’t tell you how many people (a) PM’d me with lowball offers, (b) texted and PM’d me to discuss it, and say what they wAnted, then say well, yes, its what I want but I need to think about it for a day or so, then….crickets…. I appreciate needing to think about things, but it would be nice (and thanks to the two people who did get back to me) to just let me know you’ve decided not to buy after all.

Chris
 
Buyer and seller should talk, not text or email, talk. I've never had a bad transaction with a buyer or seller with whom I spoke, and decided to move forward. I pay by check, and allow a reasonable collection period before asking the seller to ship. And I'm willing to sell on the same terms. If you depend on technology to secure your transaction, you're an idiot, just my opinion.
 
The only way I would even consider buying on the classifieds is if it was a person that I’ve seen make many posts on here over time. Then I would still want to talk to them on the phone before buying.The only used air guns I ever bought was on eBay and still almost got burned a couple times.I just feel A lot better buying brand new with a warranty. Too many people on the classifieds want near full retail anyway.
 
I agree it is best to talk, but pictures are a must. How can one seller think a black Impact is bronze, and another, say a black gun with a aluminum handgrip is a silver Impact? I’d have been really stupid to say “I’ll take it” when the picture does not match what the seller is telling me. If he can’t even get the color right, what else that he says or writes is not accurate? Apologies in advance if these two members are color blind.
 
I have bought and sold a lot of stuff over the internet, guns and merchandise. I have learned over the years that a deal is never complete until the item is paid for and the buyer is satisfied with the product. I never hold a product for anyone, I don't take an ad down until I have received payment from a buyer. I agree with talking on the phone at some point during the negotiation. Preferred payment for me is US Postal Money Order as they must be paid for in cash so when they arrive I can cash and know the funds are good. The Post Office will also run a check to see that they are legit. I will accept a Cashiers Check but will not ship until it clears.

These are just my observations and opinions and they are worth what you paid for them!!!




 
FWIW, I've had generally good luck here, but just recently I was trying to buy a scope. Sent PM, no response. Check ad a day later, marked as sold. Then the ad gets relisted, minus the scope. Seller never said boo to me. Kind of a bit irritated because while I was waiting for his response, I missed out on another scope that would have done the trick...so I ended up with nothing, TWICE! =/

Sellers, please respond to your buyers, even if the only response is "too late".
 
It seems nothing airgun related is how it should be anymore. I paid in full for an airgun in April and still haven’t received it. Currently waiting on a refund. Was referred to another dealer to get that caliber I want but that dealer doesn’t import that caliber so they just tried to sell me something I don’t want. So on Sept 8th I place another $2k order for another gun, different brand, from another dealer. Got a order confirmation email and since then nothing. It shows pending on my PayPal but nothing on my credit card. I’ve experienced things like this when other hobbies I was involved with suddenly blew up and became all the rage. Dealers that suddenly can’t keep up and private sellers jacking people around caused me to quickly lose interest in those hobbies. That kind of crap quickly takes all the fun out of a hobby. One thing that I believe doesn’t help things is the fact that we are all buying this stuff, new or used with fake money. There was a big difference when we used to show up at a guys house or at a dealer with a stack of money in hand. We were a lot more responsible with what we were doing with that stack.