DAYSTATE REPORT
- Thread starter aa_limited
- Start date
I use a couple of wet patches with Ballistol. I’ll flip the patch and pull again for four pulls total. I follow that up with a dry patch.
As I explained earlier, I’ll still have some grey streaks that I don’t worry about. I personally think that the streaks are lead as I believe any pellet coating to be taken away from the bore rather quickly but I’ve been wrong before.
After this, 20 or so pellets down the bore and it’s good.
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zx, send the patches to me; I will run the grey streaks through a gas chromatography mass spectrometer.
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RE: Problem programming my RW HP
I hit a snag. Details are listed at https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/red-wolf-hp-programming-problem/
Any thoughts on how to proceed would be appreciated.
Thank you.
The other Mark B.
I hit a snag. Details are listed at https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/red-wolf-hp-programming-problem/
Any thoughts on how to proceed would be appreciated.
Thank you.
The other Mark B.
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Hook:
Helluva day at sea, Skipper! I just got back from the range where I zeroed, grouped (precision), and Chairgunned (accuracy) my Pulsar HP .25 with the JSB 25.39 gr. All targets are five-shot series. The results are substantially better than with the H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme 28.24 gr! The JSBs shaved off an MOA @ 100 yds. The following were shot off a Caldwell Magnum DeadShot FieldPod (mild intermittent winds):
Zero Group (44.9 yds – Chairgun Optimal Zero Range):
___________________________________________________________
Complete Zero:
________________________________________________
50 yd Group (No Chairgun holdover because 50 yds is effectively within my Chairgun 1/2' kill zone):
________________________________________________
100 yd group:
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100 yd Chairgun holdover. What is interesting is that this has a tighter spread than the group shot. I think I may know why my 100 yd Chairgun holdover returns a tighter group (and red-dot accuracy) than a straight group. I believe that it is because I correctly derived the scope height Chairgun input metric. This measurement is not a simple parallel measure from center bore line to scope tube center. It is the measurement of the distance between the bore line at the muzzle and the scope line of sight, which by definition must be less than the simple parallel measure from center bore line to scope tube center due to the scope line of sight crossing the bore line. The scope height metric is a major significant input to Chairgun. It is right up there with fps. If the scope height is not right, POI is materially affected.
__________________________________________________
This last shot was from my Primos Trigger Stick tripod with the two-point rest, which is what I use while hunting. It is a 47.9 yd shot, which is within my Chairgun 1/2" kill zone. The crosshairs were set dead-center on the bull's eye. I literally had one shot left before I got a low-pressure warning!:
Helluva day at sea, Skipper! I just got back from the range where I zeroed, grouped (precision), and Chairgunned (accuracy) my Pulsar HP .25 with the JSB 25.39 gr. All targets are five-shot series. The results are substantially better than with the H&N Baracuda Hunter Extreme 28.24 gr! The JSBs shaved off an MOA @ 100 yds. The following were shot off a Caldwell Magnum DeadShot FieldPod (mild intermittent winds):
Zero Group (44.9 yds – Chairgun Optimal Zero Range):
___________________________________________________________
Complete Zero:
________________________________________________
50 yd Group (No Chairgun holdover because 50 yds is effectively within my Chairgun 1/2' kill zone):
________________________________________________
100 yd group:
________________________________________________
100 yd Chairgun holdover. What is interesting is that this has a tighter spread than the group shot. I think I may know why my 100 yd Chairgun holdover returns a tighter group (and red-dot accuracy) than a straight group. I believe that it is because I correctly derived the scope height Chairgun input metric. This measurement is not a simple parallel measure from center bore line to scope tube center. It is the measurement of the distance between the bore line at the muzzle and the scope line of sight, which by definition must be less than the simple parallel measure from center bore line to scope tube center due to the scope line of sight crossing the bore line. The scope height metric is a major significant input to Chairgun. It is right up there with fps. If the scope height is not right, POI is materially affected.
__________________________________________________
This last shot was from my Primos Trigger Stick tripod with the two-point rest, which is what I use while hunting. It is a 47.9 yd shot, which is within my Chairgun 1/2" kill zone. The crosshairs were set dead-center on the bull's eye. I literally had one shot left before I got a low-pressure warning!:
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Oregun:
I struggled articulating the concept of scope height. Perhaps this illustration will clear things up:
I struggled articulating the concept of scope height. Perhaps this illustration will clear things up:
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Now Oregun, measuring this metric is a practical challenge. There is an excellent article posted on AGN, which I am having trouble locating to provide a link, that describes the technique I used. A square cross (90 degree) is drawn on a piece of paper. The scope is set to lowest magnification and lowest parallax setting. A piece of aluminum foil is placed over the objective with a 3mm hole in the center to make visual acuity better. Get the muzzle as close as possible to the paper to where you can get a visible alignment of the reticle with the cross. Fire a shot. The distance between the x-axis and the pellet hole is your scope height.
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Problem resolved quickly after both a response to my query (thanks Bob) and a short AoA visit today (thanks Don). See https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/red-wolf-hp-programming-problem/#post-363094 if interested.
The other Mark B.
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Now Oregun, measuring this metric is a practical challenge. There is an excellent article posted on AGN, which I am having trouble locating to provide a link, that describes the technique I used. A square cross (90 degree) is drawn on a piece of paper. The scope is set to lowest magnification and lowest parallax setting. A piece of aluminum foil is placed over the objective with a 3mm hole in the center to make visual acuity better. Get the muzzle as close as possible to the paper to where you can get a visible alignment of the reticle with the cross. Fire a shot. The distance between the x-axis and the pellet hole is your scope height.
Cool... I remember that post and actually bookmarked it. Here's the link: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/strelok-pro-use-with-air-guns/page/2/
For shtz & giggles, I'll compare the pinhole technique to the straight-up math method that I use and see which one yields the best results... as I need all the advantages that I can before EBR!
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Oregun, can you please post the math method for scope height. Thanks for the link 
.
Here is a 100 yd five-shot Chairgun group (no mulligans) shot with my Pulsar HP .25 w/ a DonnyFL Emperor suppressor using JSB King 25.39s from my Primos Trigger Stick tripod w/ the two-point rest (standing up). Except for the flyer in the 7 (I pulled it), I'm lookin' at a 2.25 MOA! This is not as good as my Chairgun group shot from my Caldwell Magnum DeadShot FieldPod standing up (1.25 MOA) using the same rifle rig and round. But, the DeadShot is benchrest stable; the Trigger Stick, not so much.
Trigger Stick:
____________________________________________________
DeadShot:
.Here is a 100 yd five-shot Chairgun group (no mulligans) shot with my Pulsar HP .25 w/ a DonnyFL Emperor suppressor using JSB King 25.39s from my Primos Trigger Stick tripod w/ the two-point rest (standing up). Except for the flyer in the 7 (I pulled it), I'm lookin' at a 2.25 MOA! This is not as good as my Chairgun group shot from my Caldwell Magnum DeadShot FieldPod standing up (1.25 MOA) using the same rifle rig and round. But, the DeadShot is benchrest stable; the Trigger Stick, not so much
.Trigger Stick:
____________________________________________________
DeadShot:
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Very good shooting - doubt I'd get anything like those 100yd groups off a trigger stick with my red wolf or any other gun I own 
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Macros:
Thank you for that compliment; it makes me feel good! My Trigger Stick does have the two-point rifle rest adapter. That substantially stabilizes the rig. This is the set-up I use while hunting, (I also use a Donny FL Emperor suppressor.) I doubt if I could do as well without the two-point rest. I use the DeadShot for zeroing and grouping only. Plus, I am extremely meticulous in my measurements of the metric inputs to Chairgun. I work on my shooting mechanics to produce consistently good results as well. I would love to shoot off a sit-down lock-down bench in an indoor 100 yd range. I'm sure the wind plays a part in my groups. I would love to have consistent 1" groups at 100. The commercial shooting range situation in SoCal is sadly lacking. Oh well, maybe when I hit the lottery!
What kind of 100 yd groups do you get with your RW? Do you use a bench? Do you shoot outside? Do you use after-market suppression? What round? Have I asked enough questions? Thanks
Thank you for that compliment; it makes me feel good! My Trigger Stick does have the two-point rifle rest adapter. That substantially stabilizes the rig. This is the set-up I use while hunting, (I also use a Donny FL Emperor suppressor.) I doubt if I could do as well without the two-point rest. I use the DeadShot for zeroing and grouping only. Plus, I am extremely meticulous in my measurements of the metric inputs to Chairgun. I work on my shooting mechanics to produce consistently good results as well. I would love to shoot off a sit-down lock-down bench in an indoor 100 yd range. I'm sure the wind plays a part in my groups. I would love to have consistent 1" groups at 100. The commercial shooting range situation in SoCal is sadly lacking. Oh well, maybe when I hit the lottery!
What kind of 100 yd groups do you get with your RW? Do you use a bench? Do you shoot outside? Do you use after-market suppression? What round? Have I asked enough questions? Thanks
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To calculate scope height using the math method: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/fx-smooth-twist-twist-rate-for-strelok/
To calculate scope height using the tinfoil method: https://airgunaccuracy.wordpress.com/chairgun-and-scope-height/
To calculate scope height using the tinfoil method: https://airgunaccuracy.wordpress.com/chairgun-and-scope-height/
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Oregun, thanks for that. Have you done the tinfoil method yet? Interestingly enough, I performed both methods and got the same result! Now, I am unsure whether the manufacturer shroud or the after-market suppressor I have installed matters. In other words, maybe the muzzle, in context, means the end of the rifled piece. I performed the tin-foil method with the shroud intact and a DonnyFL Emperor suppressor installed. At any rate, my measurement must be valid because my Chairgun numbers are spot-on at the range. The proof is in the pudding, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVIoBoFkoiM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVIoBoFkoiM
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RE: RW HP Performance post programming by me, compared to pre-programming
With but an exception or three, I don't recall any previous RW programming discussions so I guess I'll take the plunge.
According to the "Daystate Air Rifle Test Sheet" the gun was setup with JSB Jumbo Beast (33.9 grain) .22 pellets. Minimum velocity was 813.90 FPS and maximum was 820.6 for an average of 50.5 foot pounds. Unfortunately, accuracy at 25 yards and 50 yards was - in my opinion - not very good. I then tried some older JSB Jumbo Monster (25.39 grain) pellets that I had on hand. Results were better but still not acceptable in my opinion.
I ordered "Redesigned" pellets and then waited a month for them to arrive.
Results with the redesigned pellets at an average velocity of 930 FPS were better, but still suffered with groups larger than I thought possible. A target shot last week at 25 yards is shown below. Two groups are shown.
Note the dime for reference purposes.
I reprogrammed the guns' High power mode last night resulting in a velocity average of 959 FPS. For those with Daystate programmers, reprogramming involved my increasing the High, Mid and Low pulse (us) settings by 200 each (results will vary from gun to gun, or so I'm told).
Results at 25 yards increased dramatically as shown below. Two separate groups are shown with each comprised of 10 shots.
Results were so positive I moved the target out to 50 yards with one group shown below. Most of the 50 yard groups were larger while a few were smaller. The group shown is probably the most representative as to shape.
I don't think I'm being unrealistic in my belief that better results at 50 yards are possible with better RW HP re-programming. A better nut behind the gun would help as well, but I digress.
Last, I placed a 1/10th size Silhouette pig at 77 meters and let fly.
My aim point was mid-height above the rear leg for the pellet strikes shown. There was a quartering tail wind wind from the right at a few miles per hour (speed estimate). Interestingly enough, my very first shot at this distance resulted in a hit. The next shot was also a hit followed by three misses in a row.
Although dramatic improvements at 25 yards resulted from reprogramming, I will not make similar claims for 50 yards and 77 meters absent comparison targets (that is before and after re-programming) to share here with you, since any claims would be suspect.
I ran out of time for paper targets at 77 and 100 meters.
I now need to either shoot paper at 77 and 100, or reprogram the gun to hopefully improve 50 yard (and beyond) performance. My goal is average 10 shot groups of .5" (12.7 mm) or (gulp) smaller.
Note that I would particularly like to hear the thoughts of anyone who has been reprogramming their RW to enhance performance. Naturally, others with germane thoughts should jump in here as well. I'm particularly interested in hearing from those with better results with their RW HP in .22 at something other than averages of 930 FPS and 959 FPS.
I'd also like to hear from those shooting Jumbo Beasts in their .22 RW HP at measured velocities. The reason for my curiosity is based on what other RW HP shooters have told me. Basically, they said that the pellets are great out to 50 yards but are not worth the effort beyond that.
Well that's it for today. I hope others that are reprogramming their Daystate rifles will jump in and share their knowledge and experience. For example, I discovered that " lower energies of 12 FPE will need a voltage of approximately 60V and higher energies might need up to 70V, this is also dependent on calibre".
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
With but an exception or three, I don't recall any previous RW programming discussions so I guess I'll take the plunge.
According to the "Daystate Air Rifle Test Sheet" the gun was setup with JSB Jumbo Beast (33.9 grain) .22 pellets. Minimum velocity was 813.90 FPS and maximum was 820.6 for an average of 50.5 foot pounds. Unfortunately, accuracy at 25 yards and 50 yards was - in my opinion - not very good. I then tried some older JSB Jumbo Monster (25.39 grain) pellets that I had on hand. Results were better but still not acceptable in my opinion.
I ordered "Redesigned" pellets and then waited a month for them to arrive.
Results with the redesigned pellets at an average velocity of 930 FPS were better, but still suffered with groups larger than I thought possible. A target shot last week at 25 yards is shown below. Two groups are shown.
Note the dime for reference purposes.
I reprogrammed the guns' High power mode last night resulting in a velocity average of 959 FPS. For those with Daystate programmers, reprogramming involved my increasing the High, Mid and Low pulse (us) settings by 200 each (results will vary from gun to gun, or so I'm told).
Results at 25 yards increased dramatically as shown below. Two separate groups are shown with each comprised of 10 shots.
Results were so positive I moved the target out to 50 yards with one group shown below. Most of the 50 yard groups were larger while a few were smaller. The group shown is probably the most representative as to shape.
I don't think I'm being unrealistic in my belief that better results at 50 yards are possible with better RW HP re-programming. A better nut behind the gun would help as well, but I digress.
Last, I placed a 1/10th size Silhouette pig at 77 meters and let fly.
My aim point was mid-height above the rear leg for the pellet strikes shown. There was a quartering tail wind wind from the right at a few miles per hour (speed estimate). Interestingly enough, my very first shot at this distance resulted in a hit. The next shot was also a hit followed by three misses in a row.
Although dramatic improvements at 25 yards resulted from reprogramming, I will not make similar claims for 50 yards and 77 meters absent comparison targets (that is before and after re-programming) to share here with you, since any claims would be suspect.
I ran out of time for paper targets at 77 and 100 meters.
I now need to either shoot paper at 77 and 100, or reprogram the gun to hopefully improve 50 yard (and beyond) performance. My goal is average 10 shot groups of .5" (12.7 mm) or (gulp) smaller.
Note that I would particularly like to hear the thoughts of anyone who has been reprogramming their RW to enhance performance. Naturally, others with germane thoughts should jump in here as well. I'm particularly interested in hearing from those with better results with their RW HP in .22 at something other than averages of 930 FPS and 959 FPS.
I'd also like to hear from those shooting Jumbo Beasts in their .22 RW HP at measured velocities. The reason for my curiosity is based on what other RW HP shooters have told me. Basically, they said that the pellets are great out to 50 yards but are not worth the effort beyond that.
Well that's it for today. I hope others that are reprogramming their Daystate rifles will jump in and share their knowledge and experience. For example, I discovered that " lower energies of 12 FPE will need a voltage of approximately 60V and higher energies might need up to 70V, this is also dependent on calibre".
Best wishes.
The other Mark B.
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Here is a 145 yard (the limit of my mil-dot using Chairgun) five-shot group using my Pulsar HP .25 shooting JSB 25.39s. I used a Caldwell Magnum DeadShot FieldPod. It was rather windy, but I'm still happy with the results.
________________________________________________
I also shot a 75 yd five-shot group using the Chairgun HO:
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I also shot a 75 yd five-shot group using the Chairgun HO:
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those are impressive groups, AH.