Teaching a Old FX Crown a New Trick! (update 8/9/19)

 

Hello AirgunNation Peoples,

Okay.. Okay... JoeKool has been bitten by the “slug bug”. I was one of the early adopters of the FX Crown back in 2017 and have been extremely pleased with it’s shooting (.25) JSB Kings 25.39gr @ 950fps and JSB King Heavy MKII’s 33.95gr @ 850fps for the last 2 years. Accuracy is flat out great and beyond satisfactory out to 100 yards at this tune, with these pellets, and with the 600mm “A” .25 caliber FX pellet liner. But... Slug this and slug that has got to me. So, what would I need to transform this shiny walnut beauty into a certified .250 slug slinging beast?

Four things:

1.580cc FX Carbon Fiber bottle upgrade over the stock 480cc CF bottle (more air)

2. The 600mm (.25) slug “A” liner

3. Nielsen Special Ammo .250 - 33.50 grain hollow-point slugs ( boxes of them!)

4. A power increase tune (more speed)



So, this stuff: (Crown .25 580cc CF bottle, slug liner, & NSA .250 slugs 33.50 grain)

1564881744_10962588755d4633501c01c8.05991631_CA7C211B-F681-44AF-92BF-9FC060340C39.jpeg




To get things rolling, a good experiment should begin with a controlled medium. For comparing after things get altered. So the controlled medium would be a rested set of 5 shot groups shot at 50 and 100 yards. These groups would be shot using the Crown’s go-to ammo the JSB KING @ (950 fps) & KING HEAVY MKII @ (850 fps). The two year old tune that has worked faultlessly for my Crown. Also this test will be shot through the OEM .25 600mm “A” pellet liner. Regulator pressure 135 bar and hammer spring on MAX but specifically tuned to reach the below speeds for these JSB .25 caliber pellets.

Chronograph results FX Crown pellet linerpellet tune, and JSB King and King Heavy MKII 

1564881569_8183207715d4632a17599c8.21253796_05470BC3-0B80-4168-BBBF-845EF6C56397.jpeg


1564881589_16248824235d4632b54dcfa1.15846769_D3F85575-2604-436D-9BD5-5A855DCBEFE4.jpeg




Here’s the “Control Group” Target:



In the field ( left 25.39 & right 33.95 MKII )bottom 100yds, top 50yds:

1564880664_9066410985d462f1885c799.20538845_7F70C25E-D332-4B89-BBEC-267D3D5F8673.jpeg


Same target ( left 25.39’s & right 33.95’s)bottom 100yds, top 50yds:

1564880984_17679780285d46305853af38.96306213_244D777F-3FBD-465A-AFF8-DDC72EA58EA6.jpeg


This is my best for a breezy day! So, having this vital real world info... Can the FX Slug Liner / Power Increase Nielsen Slugs do better?

Keep reading.

Next was about 3 hours worth of a combination of installing the new 600mm Slug “A” liner, tuning the Crown’s regulator to 155 barmaxing out the hammer spring, and chronograph testing.

Here are the resulting speeds and energies with each projectile in the tests. Through the 600mm .25 Slug liner after being satisfied with the tune.

JSB .25 King 25.39 grain

1564882027_14562142035d46346bcfef44.22125699_5693CDC3-3871-43B6-9F75-84CFA3F46600.jpeg


JSB King Heavy MKII 33.95 grain

1564881409_5766117165d4632018adab5.87904018_B0DFE049-5520-4268-98E7-15E36CB70D72.jpeg


Nielsen Specialty Ammo .250 Hollow Point Slugs 33.5 grain 

1564881312_4406634995d4631a047a924.17626678_3F370205-F313-4AC4-852B-E43BFF74ADA2.jpeg


Now on to what this post is all about. The Slug Liner and NSA .250 caliber 33.5 grain slug groups. Also, curious to know how my normal ammo for the Crown .25 will fire from this 600mm slug “A” liner, the JSB .25 King and King Heavy MKII!

FX Crown .25 Slug liner 5 shot groups @ 50 yards (left to right, JSB 25.39[1st], JSB 33.95 MKII[2nd], & NSA 33.50 HP- Slugs[3rd])

1564882722_1070711295d463722c6c296.66810096_B0233F2C-FD94-4CA0-9B39-F9CE87D7ED75.jpeg


Same target (50 yards)

1564882450_16306593105d4636120b1d72.08303302_74E1178D-FDB9-4CE5-91FC-05BA76840B29.jpeg


How does a pellet out perform a slug in a slug barrel?

100 yard target Slug liner 5 shot groups (left to right, JSB 25.39[1st], JSB 33.95 MKII[2nd], & NSA 33.50 HP- Slugs[3rd]):

1564882921_8076902415d4637ea00cae9.52358729_AE575E71-B25D-4C21-8705-AAA20FE8AF53.jpeg




I’m no one special when it comes to long range shots with airguns, but was happy to see that the slugs where at least on par with my trusted MKII’s!

I know and understand the ballistic advantages of slugs vs pellets, but unless you guys can help me out with some “secret formula”? I may go back to the pellet liner and my tune that has worked for me.

Ballistics YES mind boggling accuracy NOT YET!

Huge ballistic advantages though, take a look at my BC calculations and some ChairGun graphs after plugging in my testing info?



At this tune and slug liner setup:

JSB KING .25 25.39 grain BC = 0.036

1564883063_20087750905d4638771c2886.96791808_FF728A50-981C-49BD-9DCA-002FD2DD31D1.jpeg


1564927967_6296427065d46e7dfddc2f0.27936575_2E924D18-2400-43EE-9314-1CB9A21558C7.jpeg


1564928019_19455217465d46e813d299d7.13629306_734D387B-F46D-47F5-8907-3FBD258F63AC.jpeg




JSB KING HEAVY .25 33.95 grain BC = 0.051

1564883182_1600603025d4638eea37189.25797734_BF8D66FA-B442-4804-AE2D-F0721E92E63E.jpeg


1564928116_20664696305d46e8747204a7.77112160_9A319786-EA24-47BC-A3A6-54180FE7736A.jpeg


1564928149_13441924365d46e895e13d41.13743393_BA436FE0-6A5F-4014-B2EB-A587D538713B.jpeg




NSA .250 Hp-Slugs 33.50 grain BC = 0.075

1564883210_13218316575d46390a7ccb30.75602011_92CF4689-9961-4145-9452-CC7E723443E3.jpeg


1564928209_5428871285d46e8d17d3287.30062825_DCC421FB-995C-4CC2-9047-A057B8E0FABA.jpeg


1564928229_18974515745d46e8e5858704.42305622_488E9331-D839-4512-89A7-DCA2D878F776.jpeg


Does anyone have any tips for improving or shrinking my FX Crown .25 slug groups?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Diamondback
Thanks Joe, if you get stuck anywhere along the way pm me for my phone number and I should be able to talk you through any problem you may encounter. And as I said above, I have a couple brand new hammer weights I don't need that I will send you to cut down to size if you please. I would like to see you get some slugs with a good BC up to around 1020-1050 ft/s with some 1/2" 100 yard groups like Bob O gets on a good day. I just put my Wildcat .30 up for sale on the classifieds tonight to come up with the money for an Impact MKII. I want to get one in .25 with a 700 mm slug liner and see if I can tune it to do what your doing with your Crown. I would like to achieve 1250 ft/s with some 30 grain rebated boat tail slugs if possible...😎
 
Thanks Joe, if you get stuck anywhere along the way pm me for my phone number and I should be able to talk you through any problem you may encounter. And as I said above, I have a couple brand new hammer weights I don't need that I will send you to cut down to size if you please. I would like to see you get some slugs with a good BC up to around 1020-1050 ft/s with some 1/2" 100 yard groups like Bob O gets on a good day. I just put my Wildcat .30 up for sale on the classifieds tonight to come up with the money for an Impact MKII. I want to get one in .25 with a 700 mm slug liner and see if I can tune it to do what your doing with your Crown. I would like to achieve 1250 ft/s with some 30 grain rebated boat tail slugs if possible...
1f60e.svg

You’ll hear from me for sure!
 
+1 for the valve opening issue. The hammer systems just aren't designed to open the valve over 150bar, and if you're planning to shoot them at high velocities, you might need 160-170bar. 

Heres my current config, my weight is 5.5grams heavier than the ER hammer kits' brass weight..

1564896165_10634892335d466ba5857f58.57187604_AD4CFE23-AC28-4F27-8D41-366CF567CBA1.jpeg


I can open 190bar with this setup (and I don't use it below ~145-150bar, it's just too brutal). My ES is as low as 3 and usually 5 (per fill) when I don't sort my ammo by weight.
 
Id recommend porting the barrel transfer port. Enlongating the port on the inside, and porting the probe to match the elongation. I also made a bit of a funnel on mine (22 cal. 700mm) to match the 30 caliber TP wheel opening. 75 fps increase at 130 bar with slugs. 

In my tuning I also noticed the factory hammer weight did little to open the valve past 135 bar. So, I'll be making some hammer weights shortly. Got a spare spring guide as the factory one has to be hacked up, and a spare hammer spring. 
1564927515_8607145245d46e61b868981.35636147_PSX_20190730_095815.jpg
1564927515_14185198735d46e61bdc42e6.90356029_PSX_20190730_095758.jpg

 
If you’re looking to improve on accuracy . There’s a few things to do when shooting bullets . First thing is the size of the bullet , some barrels like .001” over grove diameter and others like .0002” under . Regardless of maker , sizing helps . Next is lock time , this is more involved but luckily you’re shooting an Impact so it’s actually pretty easy. Turn in the VS until your velocity drops slightly , than back off a 1/4 turn . You should be able to hear the difference . Also I’ve been using a harmonic tuner that Knifemaker turned me on to and my group size shrank noticeably. 

Great shooting and write up by the way. Really enjoyed it . 
 
Any and all advice is appreciated, thanks guys! I’m ordering a Gen-3 HP Huma-air regulator for the FX Crown. Then I’ll plan on putting together a separate weighted hammer spring setup to install in place of the stock one. Avoiding modifying the OEM parts. Transfer port and harmonic rings would be done only if necessary. I’m shooting to be at least in the 950 fps range with the .25 cal. 33.50 grain slugs. So, there is the plan!

I want this done right!

modify, tune, & test. (repeat as needed)

Wish me luck?🍀



JoeKool
 
If you're looking for long range accuracy with slugs, especially when there is any wind, don't push them faster than 950fps.

Yep, there is some ammo that I have tested (extensively) that doesn't drift until close to 1000fps though. Some higher BC ammo can handle the drag and not drift close to 1040fps, but I'm able to shoot Dale's ammo to 985-990fps without noticeable drift (it gets ugly any higher than that with wind). The 28's are also stable to 1020fps in calm conditions with my rifle.
 
Here is an update (8-9-19) on my progression to tune and transform my 2 year old .25 FX Crown walnut with the 600mm Slug “A”Liner. As in my original post says (@ the top) into a certified .250 slug slinger.

Well, first off I’d like to send a shout-out of appreciation to especially Chuck and all others with there guidance, tips, and suggestions. All input was utilized and/or considered. 

With AGN forum member Chuck’s part donation I was able to fabricate a self-made DYI Crown power tune hammer weight spring setup, that works a charm!



Pictures of the building process:

Measuring:

1565327900_2803938705d4d021c687734.11408027_3EBD968F-710B-4F37-8286-D825BBD324AB.jpeg


1565327964_6038886935d4d025cdc52f8.70201293_16D98239-1424-4369-9335-A14F8122C2BB.jpeg




The Cut:

1565328158_17526458655d4d031e120807.10595870_52CE70F4-E96B-45EA-BD67-8BEA8933DB12.jpeg


1565328197_9494529835d4d0345db43b9.05471971_2E837076-0401-4AD3-A839-1DE3A60FDFD7.jpeg


1565328599_18002497365d4d04d7954e19.09802338_F9C69499-EDEA-4EF3-AE13-B7E7B988099F.jpeg




The fit:

1565328746_12642428145d4d056a4e4960.81295706_8DE728B3-0FCA-427A-84C3-A28B8D656C88.jpeg


1565328792_844936045d4d0598847fe6.71843391_3D42B6EE-83C2-425C-B422-27054F481ABF.jpeg




Like mentioned above this (now weighted) hammer spring setup for the FX Crown .25 cal works! The cocking has exactly the same effort and smooth cycling as the original factory setting. No catching or binding, just a harder “whack” to the Crown’s firing valve. Which will allow the overcoming of the higher regulator pressures that will be used to push heavy .250 caliber slugs to mid - 900 fps and hopefully aid in overall accuracy. 



While on the subject of velocity, what a difference in fps performance this modification has made! Along with raising the factory regulator setting to 170 bar, I was able reach speeds I had never seen before out of my .25 Crown!

After some time tuning the hammer spring tension set points, l finally reached some velocities in the ballpark of where the .25 Crown should be launching these NSA 33.5 grain .250 HP- Slugs. JSB King and King Heavy MKII cover ground with authority also! Using the FX Slug “A” liner, 580cc Carbon fiber bottle, .25/30 transfer port position, 170 bar regulator pressure, and a MAX hammer spring tension check out what the different projectiles produced.



JSB KING .25 25.39 grain:

1565329420_15191440275d4d080ce7d426.38132311_CE65EEFD-A97A-4D42-910E-252A7EE5A71F.jpeg


1565329434_4379015785d4d081a9ac871.21967798_D5713FF1-8D50-437D-A53C-8590164DCB00.jpeg


1565329447_19352856795d4d0827a7ca98.21998553_F9280848-394E-45BC-B0E6-507F2ED1C39A.jpeg


1565332900_19949979285d4d15a441edf4.04431711_C5FB535E-E334-487B-988D-630D41FC2214.jpeg




JSB King Heavy MKII 33.95 grain:

1565329563_3927245525d4d089b595e37.37149390_F13CAC0C-8047-43F8-98EF-98177527C7BC.jpeg


1565329526_2799981955d4d08766a83f3.25489058_6526E428-152F-43A3-B71E-6014474D0074.jpeg


1565329597_13107857905d4d08bdd33f69.81634918_268483D2-1583-4BF4-8EAE-D328B23608A7.jpeg


1565332947_16370148475d4d15d3d22282.92098998_05E05B49-0876-4F65-9C26-F98F1F44C829.jpeg




Nielsen Specialty Ammo 33.50 grain .250 HP Slugs:

1565329675_1570022835d4d090b175148.79619058_F6791736-4525-490F-8A57-54F0271B3AEA.jpeg


1565329687_7991029075d4d09175409d2.24070825_6C2BB04B-F50B-49A6-83B5-DBD0B8264593.jpeg


1565329700_20902232445d4d0924627f19.74180034_ABEC116E-D249-4492-8391-D4A608731E77.jpeg


1565332722_3330969605d4d14f2d16b72.45684186_64D136B3-9C65-4A52-9D16-3CF54CF33777.jpeg




Needless to say I was ecstatic about the success of my do-it-yourself at home power tune on my Crown .25, but what is power worth if the gun isn’t accurate? I couldn’t hardly wait to setup a 50 yard target!



Accuracy 5 shot group @ 50 yards with JSB King, King Heavy MKII, and NSA Slugs:

1565329864_5487179565d4d09c8d9e387.27105441_6DC0547D-0D6C-4AEB-A978-C3AB3504FDA6.jpeg


1565329958_16877610205d4d0a260f2350.89922488_ED815AA6-514C-4DFA-9406-7B2C29CD3785.jpeg


1565330050_973291795d4d0a82afcbc5.94372366_9311990A-D1DC-4E13-A879-3345DC726A96.jpeg




Not all single hole groups @ 50 yards, but not wildly far off either! I think that I’m may be making strides in the right direction here!! The three inch bulls are sighters all shot with the NSA .250 slugs and where tighter than the 5 shot groups shot on the 8 inch target!? Thinks me barrels’ getting dirty!

Time did not allow me to try out the Crown .25 @ 100 yards on this day, bummer... But this ol’ boy’s shooting and fine tuning is far from over!

So, I have ordered a FX Crown Extra High Pressure Output (145 to 190 bar) Huma-air Regulator Gen. 2 which is in the mail, and on it’s way to me.

1565330120_18256057435d4d0ac83dabd2.37537393_58E76CD2-CD75-434B-8DF5-A02643392376.jpeg




The Huma is designed to handle high regulator pressures, and has a very rapid recovery time. When I receive and install it, testing will continue. The goal is 950 to 960 fps with .250 Slugs, just the right regulator pressure and hammer spring tension setting should get it.

It is a journey but I’m enjoying the ride!

What do you guys think?




 
Hey Joe you are just too Kool! 😃 With the Huma Gen 3 reg set at 180 Bar & the .25 slug liner I had the JSB 34gr. MKI pellets going an avg. V of 1015-1020...which is 78 ft lbs energy...and at 50 yards it was shooting like a laser! Just one small hole about 3/8" to 1/2"! So I proved that the 34 grainers will shoot accurately at much higher velocity out of the slug liner than they will out of the plain A liner. I didn't have a chance to take her out past 50 yards because due to my work schedule I had to return my friend's brand new rifle and go paint some houses. But I can't even imagine hitting a rabbit or other small game with a 34 grainer running out there at 1020 ft/s! That's gonna put a smack down on any small game for sure! 

Just so you understand, one of my main reasons for getting pellets to fly as fast as accuracy allows is to achieve the flattest trajectory possible...which in turn equates to a "point blank range" of something like 15 yards out to 65 yards...which in real life terms means that from 15y out to 65y your point of impact will never be more than 1/2" higher or lower than your point of aim...which in turn means that when you are out hunting in a real world situation where you only have a split second to acquire and fire, you won't have to worry about holdovers or dialing in any yardage on the scope...just aim and fire and whatever the crosshairs were on is going down!

Keep up the good work Joe, and congratulations on your progress so far!

All the best, Chuck
 
P.S.>Joe, just in case I didn't say so before I want to let you know that I didn't modify the valve seat, valve pin spring or transfer port on the Crown I modded because I could not find any reason to do so. She was purring like a kitten with a very low standard deviation and an extreme spread of 4 or 5 ft/s if I remember correctly, so at the time I thought leave well enough alone.

Chuck
 
Thanks for the replies fellas! Fine tuning is not complete. The main goal is to get the slugs to shoot accurately, I don’t necessarily want the most powerful FX Crown ever owned by a man, lol. I’m going by this UA video about at the 00:44 seconds to 01:00 minute mark.

https://youtu.be/pkeEbaWY5X8

He’s using a 700mm barrel which helps his velocity and may have a slightly faster twist rate then the 600mm, idk. Not going there, 700mm with a moderator looks “stupid” long on a Crown, just my opinion. No offense? But, this is about what i’d like to see my Crown doing. 950 to 960 fps shooting .25 slugs accurately. I’d like to conserve some shot count. Keeping it to the hammer spring tensions/weights and regulator pressure variations for now and see what it gets me. May consider a enlarged titanium valve seat though. There may be lighter weight slugs out there by different manufacturers that may do better, only have these NSA’s. So, thats a option.. Rumor has it JSB and H&N are in the lab focused on slug designs. Wouldn't that be kool? No worries patience is a virtue, I’ll get there.
 
RabbitBlaster

Where did you get to in your tuning efforts Joe? I am just starting to tune my Crown Continuum and I am looking for all the ideas I can find. I have a .25 cal and at the moment I am getting 66 FPE at 160 bar. I have a dual port TP and a 7gm hammer weight so far and will install a larger VS soon.




Well, I installed the Huma regulator and last year I made a post about it. Here is the link to that thread:



https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/hey-that-thing-got-a-huma-yeah-sweet/



Currently the gun is still doing and shooting quite well, the Huma regulator is at 175 bar and I’ve had no problems. The only tune modifications still remain the hammer weight, Huma regulator, the 600mm .25 cal slug liner, and the 580cc carbon fiber bottle. Although, I acquired a synthetic stock and it now is wearing that most of the time. As not to damage my walnut stock. Other than that nothing is different. I probably won’t be a buyer on the Huma dual transfer port because I am more than happy with its current tune, don’t believe it needs it.


Here are some resent results from this year.



1588297055_10354250795eab7d5f7012c7.04909619.jpeg



1588297115_5912486095eab7d9b9666f6.10527007.jpeg




JSB KING HEAVY 33.95 grain 



1588297267_4778660855eab7e33d8d516.84827171.jpeg



1588297413_5227625785eab7ec5c234e6.03397654.jpeg



1588298280_2575897195eab82287d1f49.90427730.jpeg




1588298331_12312213515eab825b1580d7.54066654.jpeg



50 yards



1588297760_19377228405eab8020d089a3.27538855.jpeg



100 yards



1588297944_14334406935eab80d8652de2.78242306.jpeg



Nielsen Specialty Ammo 33.5 grain HP-FB Slugs



1588299155_12730415565eab8593e83265.96846638.jpeg



1588299208_9385621185eab85c8f30929.95453312.jpeg



1588299301_18854450495eab86252cfdf9.81731273.jpeg





1588299431_10881334555eab86a785fc14.76575024.jpeg



I don’t have any current 50 and 100 yard target group pictures of the NSA 33.5 grain slugs shot from my Crown .25. I’m actually working on a new thread/post all about my 3 different FX airgun slug shooters, waiting for a good wind day...