Tuning TAIPAN ... Veteran No more hammer PING & Some other tuning tricks

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Motorhead

Motorhead

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Nov 1, 2018
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Recently picked up a Taipan VET in .177 caliber and been doing some internal mods to increase efficiency, lower the noise and smooth up and speed up the shot cycle further.

Now I will agree .... that is a tough nut to crack !!! But being a tuner and knowing my way around PCP's and Taipans in particular took on the challenge.



As too PING ... Removed the hammer and using a CARBIDE spot drill placed a small @ 150" deep hole. Then ran in a 3/16" 2 flute carbide end mill to make a flat bottom pocket on the striking end of hammer. From there cut a small stub of PEEK and pressed it in. THIS TRICK took away at best guess 80% of the shot noise these Taipans make when firing being that very distinct TINK / PING. 



Other tricks in play have been replacing the factory poppet head with one made of PEEK in a Cobra air spring configuration & making the vented air chamber attaching it to the factory intake grate. Also choked down the HUGE @ .230 transfer path up threw the receiver from the valve to barrel with purpose made reducing straw with an I.D. of @ .150 .

Next came reducing the LDC's pellet path hole size threw the 4 baffles and end cap. As supplied these parts had an I.D. spec of @ .280" With custom reducers in each baffle which kept the angles intact, along with a reverse cone in the end cap. Hole sizes now at @ .220" end to end which further knocked down the noise.



Last little mod an external one ... using wood made a 90* V-Block that just fit the air tube O.D. where it extends past the stock, tho short of the rotating filler collar. Dab of E6000 adhesive holds it to the tube. What this block does is FIT the V of my bi-pod yoke greatly aiding side to side / rotational stability while shooting.



Going to play with this PUP over the winter and likely in the spring doing some Field Target work. Being so short it can be shot as I do with Pistols in FT competition. Across the lap with butt on my right knee, bipod along side the left shooting from a low seat with gun sitting nearly in my lap.



Do love these FUN unique little projects !!



Scott S

Motorheads AG Tuning Services
 
I like the cone / baffle mods but I also like existing the ping. I have the Taipan Vet Long .25 and wonder if your shroud internals are similar to the pic below? The 'opening' entrance to the cones, where the pellet enters it, are .274," Love to see how you reduced that opening.

I don't have a "reverse cone"

11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111.1604949272.jpg





 
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Identical baffle configuration ... Was thinking 4, tho may have been just 3 ? ( into 3-4 guns a day and already sorta forgot )



If you look at the baffles small end you will notice the I.D. bore is straight wall for a short distance ... What i made was a press fit TOP HAT looking piece with my wanted I.D. bore pressing one into each baffle at a depth of this flat area. Next holding each baffle in the lathe up against the scroll chucks face which squares them up cut the rim of Hat to match the wedge angle of the baffles leade end. Looking into baffle from the large bell end placed a bevel on I.D. hole with a small counter sink .... DONE.

On the END CAP you will notice a Shoulder on the inside. this is where I made a 30* cone with the same I.D. hole as baffles with it having an O.D. that press fitted the end caps shoulder .... DONE.
 
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Thank you Scott I'll have to study what you said and get a complete picture of it. I looked at the shroud guts and even though to my ears it's quite reasonably backyard friendly I still felt that it could be better. Since mine is . 25 Cal and I have .28" I think I'm pretty much maxed out. All i want to hear is tink.

Working on my own revisions while maintaining accuracy
 
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I have high regard for Scott's opinions. That said, I have a Veteran Standard in .22. I'm sure, improvement can be made, and I have nothing but respect for those who pursue it. I have put a few thousand shots through my Veteran. It has been perfect. And that's a strong statement, as I have been subjected to less than acceptable performance from several brands. 

Hammer ping? I'm sure it exists, but I don't hear it. If you do, and it bothers, then by all means, fix it. I'll keep my Vet exactly as is. It is, by my most critical measure, a contender for the best air rifle in the world.


 
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I have high regard for Scott's opinions. That said, I have a Veteran Standard in .22. I'm sure, improvement can be made, and I have nothing but respect for those who pursue it. I have put a few thousand shots through my Veteran. It has been perfect. And that's a strong statement, as I have been subjected to less than acceptable performance from several brands. 

Hammer ping? I'm sure it exists, but I don't hear it. If you do, and it bothers, then by all means, fix it. I'll keep my Vet exactly as is. It is, by my most critical measure, a contender for the best air rifle in the world.

Click to expand...


Ed,

I would agree there world class air rifles !! .... next time you shoot it, pay attention to the shot cycles noise ... There is a VERY distinct TINK that almost sounds like air tube ping one hears in an unregulated PCP w/o a de-pinger installed. My Mutant sounds the same way having this distinctive sound.

With PEEK striker insert all i now hear is a muzzle pop and the shot cycle TINK is all but gone.
 
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I have high regard for Scott's opinions. That said, I have a Veteran Standard in .22. I'm sure, improvement can be made, and I have nothing but respect for those who pursue it. I have put a few thousand shots through my Veteran. It has been perfect. And that's a strong statement, as I have been subjected to less than acceptable performance from several brands. 

Hammer ping? I'm sure it exists, but I don't hear it. If you do, and it bothers, then by all means, fix it. I'll keep my Vet exactly as is. It is, by my most critical measure, a contender for the best air rifle in the world.

Click to expand...


Ed,

I would agree there world class air rifles !! .... next time you shoot it, pay attention to the shot cycles noise ... There is a VERY distinct TINK that almost sounds like air tube ping one hears in an unregulated PCP w/o a de-pinger installed. My Mutant sounds the same way having this distinctive sound.

With PEEK striker insert all i now hear is a muzzle pop and the shot cycle TINK is all but gone.
Click to expand...

Scott, after 50+ years of noise abuse, my hearing might be the limiting factor here. I don't doubt the existence of the TINK, I just don't hear it, even with 2 hearing aids....maybe a blessing?
 
Upvote 0
Recently picked up a Taipan VET in .177 caliber and been doing some internal mods to increase efficiency, lower the noise and smooth up and speed up the shot cycle further.

Now I will agree .... that is a tough nut to crack !!! But being a tuner and knowing my way around PCP's and Taipans in particular took on the challenge.



As too PING ... Removed the hammer and using a CARBIDE spot drill placed a small @ 150" deep hole. Then ran in a 3/16" 2 flute carbide end mill to make a flat bottom pocket on the striking end of hammer. From there cut a small stub of PEEK and pressed it in. THIS TRICK took away at best guess 80% of the shot noise these Taipans make when firing being that very distinct TINK / PING. 



Other tricks in play have been replacing the factory poppet head with one made of PEEK in a Cobra air spring configuration & making the vented air chamber attaching it to the factory intake grate. Also choked down the HUGE @ .230 transfer path up threw the receiver from the valve to barrel with purpose made reducing straw with an I.D. of @ .150 .

Next came reducing the LDC's pellet path hole size threw the 4 baffles and end cap. As supplied these parts had an I.D. spec of @ .280" With custom reducers in each baffle which kept the angles intact, along with a reverse cone in the end cap. Hole sizes now at @ .220" end to end which further knocked down the noise.



Last little mod an external one ... using wood made a 90* V-Block that just fit the air tube O.D. where it extends past the stock, tho short of the rotating filler collar. Dab of E6000 adhesive holds it to the tube. What this block does is FIT the V of my bi-pod yoke greatly aiding side to side / rotational stability while shooting.



Going to play with this PUP over the winter and likely in the spring doing some Field Target work. Being so short it can be shot as I do with Pistols in FT competition. Across the lap with butt on my right knee, bipod along side the left shooting from a low seat with gun sitting nearly in my lap.



Do love these FUN unique little projects !!



Scott S

Motorheads AG Tuning Services
Click to expand...

Thought provoking + inspiring mod, as usual ... Thanks!

A 5.85 mm transfer port for a 4.5 mm cal gun? Why on earth are they making them like this? I thought the TP diameter yardstick was 80% of the cal.

🐦
 
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Scott, after 50+ years of noise abuse, my hearing might be the limiting factor here. I don't doubt the existence of the TINK, I just don't hear it, even with 2 hearing aids....maybe a blessing?

**

Thought provoking + inspiring mod, as usual … Thanks!

A 5.85 mm transfer port for a 4.5 mm cal gun? Why on earth are they making them like this? I thought the TP diameter yardstick was 80% of the cal.
Click to expand...


Electronically challenged ... LOL, it sounds like all us older folk in this modern tech world !!

Perhaps others may hear this TINK, change it up and in time add to this post with a Well damn no poop comment ?



Mass production ... in this platform I'm incline to think .177 cal only exists due to consumer outcry. Want a .177 the folks at Taipan make the required barrel & thimble, probe, mag and SS tray you have your .177 As to purpose built parts doubt very much the market supports this. Thus lets fine tune it some.



Scott S
 
Upvote 0

Scott, after 50+ years of noise abuse, my hearing might be the limiting factor here. I don't doubt the existence of the TINK, I just don't hear it, even with 2 hearing aids....maybe a blessing?

**

Thought provoking + inspiring mod, as usual … Thanks!

A 5.85 mm transfer port for a 4.5 mm cal gun? Why on earth are they making them like this? I thought the TP diameter yardstick was 80% of the cal.
Click to expand...


Electronically challenged ... LOL, it sounds like all us older folk in this modern tech world !!

Perhaps others may hear this TINK, change it up and in time add to this post with a Well damn no poop comment ?



Mass production ... in this platform I'm incline to think .177 cal only exists due to consumer outcry. Want a .177 the folks at Taipan make the required barrel & thimble, probe, mag and SS tray you have your .177 As to purpose built parts doubt very much the market supports this. Thus lets fine tune it some.



Scott S
Click to expand...

The mass production comment makes complete sense. I immediately though it was odd that the OD for baffle /cone entrance hole was the same in both .177 and .25.

I do not know the dims of my transfer port as I've only de-stocked it wax to the entire gun. Had it sticking out the truck window in the rain and glad I had waxed it. TreWax paste puts a wicked good shine on the Beech stock.
 
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They probably used the 22 Vet as a base to do the 177.

The hammer strike noise is kinda like an aluminum baseball bat hitting a baseball heard from a distance away. Edguns are more pronounced like hitting a home run deep into center.

My 177 Vet shorty power is backed down real low so it is near silent.

For those who don't know what PEEK is...

Screenshot_2020-11-07-16-37-482.1605027992.png
Screenshot_2020-11-07-16-38-192.1605027992.png



 
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They probably used the 22 Vet as a base to do the 177.

The hammer strike noise is kinda like an aluminum baseball bat hitting a baseball heard from a distance away. Edguns are more pronounced like hitting a home run deep into center.




Click to expand...

Being we have some constructive conversation happen here ... let me add a bit more info on what was found in this .177 caliber Veteran that is kinda odd in general with a reflection on the Mutant i went threw a few years ago finding similar oddities in parts used to assemble these guns.



Going to state OBVIOUSLY Taipan is using ONLY ONE receiver casting / specification. This VET is like all others I seen and fooled with in this regard. 

The transfer path from the Brass Poppet seat is .230" all the way to where the twin transfer port thimble drops in ahead of barrel screwing in.

The .177 thimble has the same HUGE divided bridge throat feeding the calibers I.D. bore hole. WAY way way over kill and too large !!!

Oddly ... the brass seat only had an @ .202" throat using a .118" stem with the poppet head being @ .280" ...... Actual area of the remaining space that air has to flow threw the throat equivalent to an @ .163" hole. * So a poppet set & throat spec very well suited to .177 & even a tad large at that, exiting into a .230" transfer path ... OUPS !!!



Years ago when doing my personal .22 Mutant found a similar mismatch being the Mutants transfer path was @ .200" and the Brass seat was exactly the same !!

Being a .22 i opted to open throat to @ .235" which gave an exit / flow threw throat equivalent to the .200" transfer path. Elongated the port in barrel and we have it balanced in flow rates threw the system.



Back to the .177 VET ... we basically have done the same thing via differing mods due to the smaller caliber and strangled the transfer path to get the balance created in flow path threw the system.



Ying Yang ... Tit Tat sort of dance.



Scott S
 
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At some point I'm going to fabricate a replacement Thimble being a single hole feeding the air behind a chambered pellet.

Doing so we will shrink the dead air volume further within the transfer passage which should yield greater efficiency allowing us to reduce HST slightly for the same output power.

While i have not measured it ? .... I would be incline to say that with the HUGE bridge divided thimble in place, the excess area it creates is equal to or close too the volume of the transfer space below it above the Brass seat. I mean it's HUGE.

For those who have never seen a Taipan Veteran, here a picture taken off the web
vet transfer port.1599689805.jpg


Now imagine the tiny .177 caliber hole & not the .22 or .25 hole shown !! Wow is right.



UPDATE on THIMBLE ....

Removed it today and figured the easy way to deal with this is SIMPLY TURN THIMBLE OVER ... Fill the Huge twin passage and drill a single transfer hole 180* opposing.

Placed a small piece of silicone R/C fuel line threw the center hole to block it up. Cut a few pieces of Copper pipe solder being wet with flux so it would flow and level.

Lightly heating the thimble with propane torch flame the solder easily melted and filled up the 2 port passages. That done over the belt sander dressing off most of the dome of solder from overfilling and a file dressing the thimbles round profile Both ports are filled up and space eliminated.

Other side we drill a 1/8" hole on center all the way threw to inner bore, Spot face the transfer diameter of .161" just shy of breaking threw to inner bore and take a dremel bit of 1/8" and ELONGATE the hole into a front to back SLOT to get back the .161" area w/o having pellet tipping into the port. Sort of 1/2 the OEM twin port now.



Over on Chrony ... 932-935 fps where we had been running and set @ 918-920 previous. Did exactly what I figured would happen and was able to back off the HST a tad.



Love it !!











Scott S
 
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The transfer passage restriction "Straw" was made from AF grade acetal rod. Using individual drills from a 1-60 drill index & using the shank end as a Go-No Go found the size of the passage. With calipers measured the distance between the thimble bore and poppet seat bore giving me a over all length ( OAL )

Then on the lathe machined it and parted off at length measured. Tube a light slip fit that gets inserted threw the bottom seat anchor set screw hole. Once in place you replace the seat and thimble having the reducing straw captured between. Taking it out is just as easy only requiring lightly snagging it with a wire hook, wood screw or ez- out etc ...



I WOULD NOT DO ANY THING THAT IS A PRESS FIT ..... you would have no way to get it out being the thimble end is BLIND to transfer hole access having no way to push it back out. Slip fit only !!!

Scott S
 
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