Tuning TAIPAN CZ 700MM BARREL - THERE'S HOPE!

An interesting turn of events today! I decided to spend some time re-evaluating these two new 700mm CZs that I've had stashed away for a few months. I knew they had tight bores, super-conservative chamber throats (chamber "leade in"), and unintentional chokes in them (likely from aggressive machining / threading operations at the factory. 

My prior experience shooting a 700mm CZ was in a friend's rifle was anything but spectacular (3-6" at 100y no matter what ammo I tried). I figured if worse came to worse, I would chop one down 100mm and see what happens 😂 

Longer story short, I realized today that there were common problems with these barrels (and likely others out in the wild) - the primary issue - they both had some burrs at the muzzle crown! These burrs are like a big fat speed bump for the projectile exiting the barrel. I pushed an 18gr JSB through the bore, which started off a little rough, then smoothed out until it hit a slight choke (3/4" from the muzzle), where it then came to a DEAD stop right at the crown! 

Made an attempt to lap it away with my brass lapping tool, but that failed because it was too recessed. I could see that it was going to take some effort after I saw it through my 90 degree borescope attachment.

Being late in the day and a little burned out on barrel machining and unmotivated to set my lathe back up for barrel turning (I had already machined two other custom barrels this week and stowed away my 4-jaw), I decided to use my .22cal hand crowning tool, I just needed to make a new brass pilot for it matching the diameter of the crown burr, and I would then cut away the burr while making a new 45 degree crown. I had already made a CZ .22 brass bore pilot anyway, so this plan made the most sense.

After two passes with the hand tool - bingo! My CZ bore pilot fit and I finished up the new crown. Probably the largest 45 degree crown that I have made to date, but hey it worked 😂 

030BF8E9-B0B3-468A-80BE-196C16B4CAD1.1622874106.jpeg
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I could probably face it a little and shrink it, but who cares 😂 

So how does it shoot? MUCH better than the first 700mm that I shot! Although, I was ill prepared today making the last minute decision to test it. I was rushed to install the barrel, scope the rifle, and race out to my shooting spot (it's illegal to shoot here after 5pm now!). I turned up the reg from 100bar to 150, but forgot to put in a heavier spring. It was also very windy as usual, and I didn't grab all the ammo that I intended to test - but I only had about an hour before I had to pack up and leave. 

Even with the suboptimal velocities, it was still printing 1.5" in the wind with 24.8gr NSAs, 24gr (2S nose) Varmint Knockers, and 32.80gr XLHPs. The few Monster RDs that I had were in two tuns that have been at the bottom of my range bag since late 2018 😂.. but they show STRONG signs of doing well with these barrels!

If anyone needs guidance for getting your barrel to shoot right, let me know. ALSO, very important - I also discovered a while ago with my 550mm CZ that reinstalling these barrels can be TRICKY!!!! There's a tendency for them to bottom out in a way that they're incorrectly oriented! If you were to torque the barrel down real tight with the barrel skewed non-concentric, and if you were to torque down the caps on the trigger housing, your barrel would be ruined (bent)! There's a process that I've developed that I can share at some point, but feel free to ping me if you need help 👍
 
Awesome post! Thanks for sharing. I'm an edgun, impact and wildcat kind of guy, but I always appreciate reading about trouble shooting and trouble finding situations and how they were resolved! That's an awesome feeling when it come together!

Thanks! One of the cool thing about these Taipan slug barrels is the 15mm OD. They're nice and stout, and that generous OD means they can be machined to work with just about any other PCP airgun 👍
 
An interesting turn of events today! I decided to spend some time re-evaluating these two new 700mm CZs that I've had stashed away for a few months. I knew they had tight bores, super-conservative chamber throats (chamber "leade in"), and unintentional chokes in them (likely from aggressive machining / threading operations at the factory. 

My prior experience shooting a 700mm CZ was in a friend's rifle was anything but spectacular (3-6" at 100y no matter what ammo I tried). I figured if worse came to worse, I would chop one down 100mm and see what happens 😂 

Longer story short, I realized today that there were common problems with these barrels (and likely others out in the wild) - the primary issue - they both had some burrs at the muzzle crown! These burrs are like a big fat speed bump for the projectile exiting the barrel. I pushed an 18gr JSB through the bore, which started off a little rough, then smoothed out until it hit a slight choke (3/4" from the muzzle), where it then came to a DEAD stop right at the crown! 

Made an attempt to lap it away with my brass lapping tool, but that failed because it was too recessed. I could see that it was going to take some effort after I saw it through my 90 degree borescope attachment.

Being late in the day and a little burned out on barrel machining and unmotivated to set my lathe back up for barrel turning (I had already machined two other custom barrels this week and stowed away my 4-jaw), I decided to use my .22cal hand crowning tool, I just needed to make a new brass pilot for it matching the diameter of the crown burr, and I would then cut away the burr while making a new 45 degree crown. I had already made a CZ .22 brass bore pilot anyway, so this plan made the most sense.

After two passes with the hand tool - bingo! My CZ bore pilot fit and I finished up the new crown. Probably the largest 45 degree crown that I have made to date, but hey it worked 😂 

030BF8E9-B0B3-468A-80BE-196C16B4CAD1.1622874106.jpeg
B44E06D3-D016-4A13-9A4C-3061FE6BD5F9.1622874107.jpeg


I could probably face it a little and shrink it, but who cares 😂 

So how does it shoot? MUCH better than the first 700mm that I shot! Although, I was ill prepared today making the last minute decision to test it. I was rushed to install the barrel, scope the rifle, and race out to my shooting spot (it's illegal to shoot here after 5pm now!). I turned up the reg from 100bar to 150, but forgot to put in a heavier spring. It was also very windy as usual, and I didn't grab all the ammo that I intended to test - but I only had about an hour before I had to pack up and leave. 

Even with the suboptimal velocities, it was still printing 1.5" in the wind with 24.8gr NSAs, 24gr (2S nose) Varmint Knockers, and 32.80gr XLHPs. The few Monster RDs that I had were in two tuns that have been at the bottom of my range bag since late 2018 😂.. but they show STRONG signs of doing well with these barrels!

If anyone needs guidance for getting your barrel to shoot right, let me know. ALSO, very important - I also discovered a while ago with my 550mm CZ that reinstalling these barrels can be TRICKY!!!! There's a tendency for them to bottom out in a way that they're incorrectly oriented! If you were to torque the barrel down real tight with the barrel skewed non-concentric, and if you were to torque down the caps on the trigger housing, your barrel would be ruined (bent)! There's a process that I've developed that I can share at some point, but feel free to ping me if you need help 👍

Great post and pictures, thanks! That crown came out fantastic! 
 
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You offer your services for monies? Might need to find someone to machine a .177 TJ slug barrel for my Veteran.

I do barrel projects for people from time to time, but right now I only have barrel tools (chamber reamers) for .22 and .30. The reamers are some of the best you can get, but the lead time is 6 weeks now for orders 😭
 
WELL ADD ME TO THE CONGREGATION. My CZ 22 barrel shot 25gr JSB pellets great but every slug I tried shot so bad you would have sworn I was shoot 177 at the target. At 20 yards you could miss a 6 inch bull most of the time. Back a page or two mtmGhost posted about his experience. So I figured I’d at least slug the barrel. I used a 25 pellet and sure enough right at the crown the pellet hung up. Using loops I noticed that there appeared to be no evidence of any effort to crown the barrel or if so very minimal. I’m no mechanist and have no tools but I figured for the sake of scientific advancement I was going to try to eliminate at defect at the crown. Only tool I had was a case mouth chamfering too. SO? I just had at it figuring what could it hurt and I’v got a buddy with a lathe who can tidy up my work. YOU KNOW WHAT? That took the group from six inches to about 1/2 inch ( at 20 yards). Had I the right equipment who knows. So there IS HOPE brothers. Thanks to mtmGhost for leading the congregation to the path to the veteran promised land . Wouldn’t you think this could have be addressed by the barrel maker or some one in the chain of command? 
 
@bubblerboy64 - Awesome, I'm very happy to hear that!! The barrels are a diamond in the rough so to speak. They can be further "tuned" for whatever projectiles thag you plan to shoot from them to get the most mileage out of them 😎

I tested out my second 700mm barrel today, which has some slightly different chambering modifications than I had done to the first. This time out, I had the rifle / reg / hammer configured with the 32.80gr XLHP Varmint Knockers in mind. 

Longer version short - when using lighter slugs in the 25 grain ballpark, these barrels appear to perform almost identically to my gen6 2020 Huben K1 barrel: it wants to shoot them FAST!

The sweet spot today for both the 24gr (2S nose) Varmint Knockers and the 24.8gr NSAs was 1100FPS. I was tuned pretty hot by normal standards for these, but I started off shooting them in the upper 900's with not so great results (HST was a struggle to detune given the configuration today), 

Both of those slugs really started to tighten up as I said screw it and turned in the tension. It was a night and day difference from 1080-1090, but 1100 was definitely the best. The VKs fell victim to the wind from about 1110-1125, but it was a blustery day to begin with.
 
I plan to chronograph and do a little more testing. As an aside does it hurt these guns to push them over 1000 FPS? My gun has a heavy hammer spring and a plenum. I’m certain I can get the velocity up there.

They can absolutely handle everything that I have thrown in them (185bar pushing heavy ammo with FPE into the 120's).

EDIT: the factory valve poppet will not last very long at high power. It needs to be beefed up at a certain point.

More news to report - I did some additional chamber work to my second 700mm barrel, opening it up to the groove diameter and throating it more appropriately. I reinstalled the barrel into my test rifle - without changing the reg pressure to gauge the before and after.

The winds were "less fierce" today, and I actually remembered to bring a new tin of JSB Monster RDs with me this time 😂 To my pleasant surprise, the MRDs shot better out of this choke-less barrel than my choked 550mm! My ES was pretty crazy when I attempted to adjust for low velocity (still had the hammer + spring setup all wrong for that reg pressure, and I failed to bring the correct parts).

Nonetheless - the MRDs were shooting MOA or better @100y from 940-970 (and 990-994). I had the start of some super tight groups in both ~1005 and the ~1025 ranges, but I started seeing some hard drift action that I need to review in the slow-mo scope cam footage that I shot (some of the holes looked a bit like keyholing).

Slugs: GREAT SUCCESS finally with subsonic velocities!!! I no longer need to push everything at 1100FPS - everything shot just fine at slow speeds (915-970). I was able to reproduce the interesting phenomenon with the 24gr and 24.8gr, where they drifted more in the ~1090 range, but were consistently tight / sub-MOA at 1100FPS (+/-3FPS). 

I also saw a MAJOR improvement with the 32.80gr XLHPs! I still think thr chamber needs to be reamed a little deeper to support them best.

I chose not to do any more tests with the boat tail slugs until I'm ready to up the reg again (like it at 170bar for the 40gr and 180-185 for 44-55gr).

Not sure what I want to test next. I could drop the reg down to 125-130 and setup a fine tuned hammer to see just how accurate it can be with the lighter slugs and Monsters, or do the polar opposite and see how it rips the heavies at or near supersonic 🤷‍♂️
 
WOW,

Great job on pushing the envelope of the the Vet. It sounds as if you could get the VET Lg. barrel W/O choke and do your magic, it may be one of the Premier Slug/Pellet shooting Platforms at the 900+ range.

Always a treat to follow your Journeys in the Mods you preform. You and all of the other AG Wizards are what makes this the best AG Forum to follow IMHO!

Keep up the great work, can't wait for the next Chapter.



Joe😎
 
Mtnghost...I might think this could eventually will take us to custom tj .. I have a project will a .25 cricket air tube + 2 plenums in .22 cal that will let me accommodate a 30" long barrel 1/2 past the air tube. So the question is .. in what twist rate would you like to see tj made... 217 .. 1-22 ..for pellets and 1-14 for those 40g bt ..?..what do you think..?
 
WOW,

Great job on pushing the envelope of the the Vet. It sounds as if you could get the VET Lg. barrel W/O choke and do your magic, it may be one of the Premier Slug/Pellet shooting Platforms at the 900+ range.

Always a treat to follow your Journeys in the Mods you preform. You and all of the other AG Wizards are what makes this the best AG Forum to follow IMHO!

Keep up the great work, can't wait for the next Chapter.



Joe
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Mtnghost...I might think this could eventually will take us to custom tj .. I have a project will a .25 cricket air tube + 2 plenums in .22 cal that will let me accommodate a 30" long barrel 1/2 past the air tube. So the question is .. in what twist rate would you like to see tj made... 217 .. 1-22 ..for pellets and 1-14 for those 40g bt ..?..what do you think..?

@JoeWillie - thank you sir! I'm the results-driven type, and the results from these CZs are looking pretty not bad! 😂 

@mercado - From all of my testing, I'd say that it really depends on the desired velocity for the ammo. A barrel that is perfect for sub/transonic velocities is usually not ideal for supersonic speeds (especially with larger ammo).

I have some custom barrels being made to support supersonic velocities and larger slugs, but I cannot give exact specifics right now on twist rates other than saying that Kolbe's formula comes reasonably close to estimating what those rates should be for stability. I find it to be misleading for sub/transonic velocities, at least my results have shown much different set of requirements

TJs also made some semi-custom .22 (powder) barrels for me recently, I'm going to setup and test them soon to see which one works best with the ammo I have in mind. 

As for these CZs, I couldn't be happier. Cutting one of them down to 600mm to see how it compares with the performance that I had with the "magic" 600mm FX slug A liner that I ran for a while (I actually wore that liner out after several months!).


 
I chopped off 100mm from barrel #1. Got it down to 600mm on the money. Did the re-threading > crown > polish dance and modified the chamber throat so that i

t seats the larger boat tails (29-40gr) MUCH better now. 

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Here's a 29gr RBT dropped into the breech. It stops just a hair short of the depth that the factory pellet probes load them to:
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Just need to re-blue the areas that I modified (ran out if acetone lol), and then get it installed for testing tomorrow. This test should provide a lot of insight on the optimal chamber geometry that I'm OCD about!
 
mtnGhost,



I fully agree on re crowning en re chambering the cz barrel.

Just got in a 550mm barrel, had to space up the chamber to give the .217 21grn room to enter whithout damage from the probe.

It is a tight fit, even for pellets.

The crowning was kind of weird.

a long choke and at the end a kind of bump, took away 2,5mm and the bump problem was solved.

The long choke still bothers me, I can cut of the threaded part and make new crown and thread and still have 3cm of choke.

But first some testing at the range.



Regards, Robert.



Edit: exelent work on your crowning and chambering!
 
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mtnGhost,



I fully agree on re crowning en re chambering the cz barrel.

Just got in a 550mm barrel, had to space up the chamber to give the .217 21grn room to enter whithout damage from the probe.

It is a tight fit, even for pellets.

The crowning was kind of weird.

a long choke and at the end a kind of bump, took away 2,5mm and the bump problem was solved.

The long choke still bothers me, I can cut of the threaded part and make new crown and thread and still have 3cm of choke.

But first some testing at the range.



Regards, Robert.



Edit: exelent work on your crowning and chambering!

Bedankt! Yes, the choke is definitely something that has to be examined. I have (4) of these long range CZ barrels right now, plus some factory pellet CZ barrels that I adjusted for ~24-27gr slugs. Each choke is a little different, some are tighter than others, and some appear to be "abrupt" (where the bore goes from smooth to extremely tight in just a couple of mm). 

Regardless of how long or tight the chokes are, I have had great results polishing themI just polish them very gently and meticulously until I can push ammo through the bore nice and smooth by feel. It doesn't take much effort, so it's better to spend more time with less abrasive polishing materials than with less time with highly abrasive polishing materials.

From all of the time and testing that I have done (quite a lot), a "slight" choke doesn't hurt anything - however, you have to run patches through them more frequently than cleaning than an unchoked barrel. They benefit pellets and smaller airgun slugs the most, but they seem to cause accuracy issues with larger slugs (unless you clean the bore after every 30-40 shots). 

There's too many small details to describe in this post for barrel machining / polishing / fine tuning operations, but if I could filter down the things that are most important to me for obtaining the best results - I'd say (in no particular order):

Concentricity - the bore should always be concentric from end to end and the bore diameter should be consistent (overpolishing with a lathe or rotary tool is VERY dangerous!).

Crowning - it needs to be square obviously. Now there are some that say the chamfering angle doesn't matter, but I actually prefer 45 degrees. Reason being - I have had perfectly square 11 degree crowns and some other angles cause some issues with moderators attached. I also round them off a bit at the outer chamfering edge by hand on my lathe. I won't argue with anyone about this nor will I spend any time theorizing. For anyone that doesn't believe me - use whatever angles / geometry that you wish. 

Chamber & throat - this is a critical part of the barrel! I commented last night in another thread on this topic, I prefer 2 degree reamers and I ream them just deep enough to seat my smallest projectile in the rifling. The projectile MUST seat concentric to the bore, and not sit too low at the end of the throat (or worst case of all - be sitting in free bore).

It's vital that no chatter marks be present in the throat / bore from the reamer. It can also be devastating to overpolish the throat, however- it must be absolutely smooth. Otherwise, you run the risk of damaging the projectile during the loading / chambering cycle and/or the shot cycle itself. 



These 5,5 / .22 caliber CZs are magnificent barrels! I could probably sit there for hours in end looking st them with my borescope, they are just gorgeous inside! Very deep grooves, perfect lands/rifling. Perfectly consistent in diameter from end to end, and zero manufacturing issues aside from the relatively minor issues that motivated me to post this thread.

I have not run patches through the 600mm barrel since I broke it in (10 mags, running patches through after each mag). Haven't seen the need to clean it, and I have probably run 1200 slugs of various types through it since. Harmonic issues are virtually non-existent as far as I can tell, regardless of length.



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@mtnGhost: Amazing skills to be able to do what you did. However I'm a little disappointed that the much hyped CZ barrels are that inconsistent with choke, crown and chambering. With so many people pour praise for the CZ barrels I always wanted to try it but your data suggests otherwise. To have to recrown to shoot well on a gun of that price tag is a bit disappointing then the inconsistency over 3 barrels is simply unacceptable. 
 
@mtnGhost: Amazing skills to be able to do what you did. However I'm a little disappointed that the much hyped CZ barrels are that inconsistent with choke, crown and chambering. With so many people pour praise for the CZ barrels I always wanted to try it but your data suggests otherwise. To have to recrown to shoot well on a gun of that price tag is a bit disappointing then the inconsistency over 3 barrels is simply unacceptable.

I hear what you're saying. FWIW though - I have only had ONE barrel that I didn't have to do surgery on, and that was my EVOL 30. However, I did have to polish it to get it shooting consistently without having to clean the bore after every 5-6 mags. 

Not sure if the CZs are cheaper in CZ or the EU, but I don't regret buying any of them at retail. Maybe not for everyone, but I didn't really get a hernia fixing them up if you know what I mean lol