Tac Optics 6-24..... been waiting a while for this one

Thanks for the insightful side x side. Can you list country if mtg for all? Have you by any chance a Bushnell TAC 4.5-30x50 you know the relabled old JAPAN Elite 6500 25 yd focus... Clearance almost half price at $599 now... Yo!

This one... Yo!

Just checked the ACME Machine website there's a $359.99 ($599 99 regular price) scope with a pretty radical tri MOA illuminated reticle is it a JAPAN made scope? Yo!

FYI all of the JAPAN Side Focus Bushnells are 25 yard minimum focus except for the discontinued 2.5-16x 6500 series. The Elite 4500 series JAPAN 25 yard side focus doesn't seem to be as good as the old 4200s with the front focus AO... Yo!

I remember when GA Precision helped design the Bushnell Elite LRHS 3-12x44. Bushnell stated in the specs that it'd have 10Y minimum focus. I was excited because I wasn't happy with the SWFA 3-15's I owned so I ordered two of the Bushnell's. It was a while before the two I ordered showed up and before I even looked at the side focus wheel I tried dialing down the focus at 20 yards on 12x and it wouldn't focus -WHAT??? There it was on the side wheel, 50Y minimum focus!  I sold one right away for full price and kept the other for my AR-15. Then I discovered when I went to sight a AR-15 in, that the splines were 50/100 instead of 100/100 so I wasn't able to sight in to .1 mil, I was almost always 1 click off. The glass in my two were fantastic though!! but they were spec'd by GA with upgraded glass at the time.

Thanks for the heads up Bob. It's fun comparing all our different scopes. 

I had 3 Bushnell 3.5-21x50 HDMR's. The glass in them wasn't anything special that's for sure! Well neither were the 5 NXS series Nightforce scopes I had. And the worst glass i've had was actually a USO brand. I know you have looked through a few other USO's.

But glass isn't everything. Neither is country of manufacture.

I would definitely default to the Midas TAC if they offered an all .2 mil reticle!

I remember when GA Precision helped design the Bushnell Elite LRHS 3-12x44. Bushnell stated in the specs that it'd have 10Y minimum focus. I was excited because I wasn't happy with the SWFA 3-15's I owned so I ordered two of the Bushnell's. It was a while before the two I ordered showed up and before I even looked at the side focus wheel I tried dialing down the focus at 20 yards on 12x and it wouldn't focus -WHAT??? There it was on the side wheel, 50Y minimum focus! 

I sold one right away for full price and kept the other for my AR-15. Then I discovered when I went to sight a AR-15 in, that the splines were 50/100 instead of 100/100 so I wasn't able to sight in to .1 mil, I was almost always 1 click off. The glass in my two were fantastic though!! but they were spec'd by GA with upgraded glass at the time.

Thanks for the heads of Bob. It's fun comparing all our different scopes. 

I had 3 Bushnell 3.5-21x50 HDMR's. The glass in them wasn't anything special that's for sure! Well neither were the 5 NXS series Nightforce scopes I had. And the worst glass i've had was actually a USO brand. I know you have looked through a few other USO's.

But glass isn't everything. Neither is country of manufacture.

I would definitely default to the Midas TAC if they offered an all .2 mil reticle!

Click to expand...

I had the $900 Elite Tactical FFP 3-12x44 it focused down to 10 yards on the side focus marked starting as 10 on the sidewheel very clear JAPAN glass illuminated reticle was a real must otherwise couldn't see the tiny mildot crosshair at low mag. Bushnell must have changed that one over the years. Mine was purchased back in early 2000s. EBay had them at just under $800 last cheap price and a Canadian reseller apparently hoarded them and resold them for $900. I would have bought all of them if he hadn't hoarded them first back then. Same with those fantastic Bushnell Legend mildot scopes from Phillipines I only managed to snag 2 dozen or so before that Canada guy bought all the rest to resell. I wouldn't have resold them and would have used them on my guns replacing my non mildot JAPAN Bushnell Trophys and Weaver V16s. Yo!

Blast from the past... Yo! 

The JAPAN Elite 6500s were the top of the line back in the early 2000s Who then became the Tactical line up until recently. The Delta Stryker is supposed to blow them out of the water. Bushnell apparently isn't the best anymore since other brands caught up then shot passed in optical quality. The JAPAN Athlon Cronus BTR for example I would like to do a side by side with the Delta Stryker and Nightforce SHV and Sightron SIII and Bushnell TAC which will probably come in last place. I am wanting to try one. Too bad for Bushnell once a great optical company. Yo! 

I remember when GA Precision helped design the Bushnell Elite LRHS 3-12x44. Bushnell stated in the specs that it'd have 10Y minimum focus. I was excited because I wasn't happy with the SWFA 3-15's I owned so I ordered two of the Bushnell's. It was a while before the two I ordered showed up and before I even looked at the side focus wheel I tried dialing down the focus at 20 yards on 12x and it wouldn't focus -WHAT??? There it was on the side wheel, 50Y minimum focus! 

I sold one right away for full price and kept the other for my AR-15. Then I discovered when I went to sight a AR-15 in, that the splines were 50/100 instead of 100/100 so I wasn't able to sight in to .1 mil, I was almost always 1 click off. The glass in my two were fantastic though!! but they were spec'd by GA with upgraded glass at the time.

Thanks for the heads of Bob. It's fun comparing all our different scopes. 

I had 3 Bushnell 3.5-21x50 HDMR's. The glass in them wasn't anything special that's for sure! Well neither were the 5 NXS series Nightforce scopes I had. And the worst glass i've had was actually a USO brand. I know you have looked through a few other USO's.

But glass isn't everything. Neither is country of manufacture.

I would definitely default to the Midas TAC if they offered an all .2 mil reticle!

Click to expand...

I had the $900 Elite Tactical FFP 3-12x44 it focused down to 10 yards on the side focus marked starting as 10 on the sidewheel very clear JAPAN glass illuminated reticle was a real must otherwise couldn't see the tiny mildot crosshair at low mag. Bushnell must have changed that one over the years. Mine was purchased back in early 2000s. EBay had them at just under $800 last cheap price and a Canadian reseller apparently hoarded them and resold them for $900. I would have bought all of them if he hadn't hoarded them first back then. Same with those fantastic Bushnell Legend mildot scopes from Phillipines I only managed to snag 2 dozen or so before that Canada guy bought all the rest to resell. I wouldn't have resold them and would have used them on my guns replacing my non mildot JAPAN Bushnell Trophys and Weaver V16s. Yo!

Click to expand...

That's another scope I've had and sold, the regular Elite Tacitcal 3-12x44, and here's another example of non chinese scope problems, mine had a super tight eyebox, causing me to have to put my eye exactly in one spot to get a full and clear sight picture, otherwise it was a decent scope, but the glass was certainly not up to that 3-12 LRHS quality. I used it on my Daystate Panther for a year in Hunter FT and won a match or two that year.

I'm like Bob in that I want versatility most of the time, so I went to FFP for most of my rifles. That's why I bought my S&B PM2 5-25x56 scopes. The H59 reticle and 10M focus makes it a super versatile scope! I've won FT, 22rf tactical, long range steel matches, and hit steel 2000Y+ away with it. 

I love the glass and the quality of the old B&L 6-24x42 SFP scopes but I couldn't handle the small amount of elevation travel and would rather not have 1/8th moa clicks. 

Yea IIRC the Bausch & Lomb/ Bushnell Elite 4000/4200 had only 40" elevation that's what a 1" with a 6-24x does. Great glass though and perfect repeatable clicks. Top one surprised y'all didn't recognize the Leupold 6.5-20x40AO EFR very clear and bright glass and perfect repeatable clicks too. Bottom is the Made in USA Burris Signature Rim fire/Air gun 8-32x44 AO with the 10 yd - 100 yd AO with repeatable clicks as well super clear glass however a little on the dark side kinda like wearing lightly tinted sunglasses and noteworthy mention the Burris is so good in repeatable clicking that I even wore out one that became free spinning no clicks and still tracked perfectly. Those had 1/3" clicks which I thought were perfect for Air gun use back on the day. Burris as with Leupold had their own custom shop reticle upgrade if you send your scope out to them and pay IIRC $100. Many of my Leupolds have custom reticle such as the TRI MOA and the Horus H59 super busy reticle and upgraded target turret. I really have to say that some of these old school scopes are clearer than many of the new side focus ones. I really like the old school Burris Signature 8-32x44 Rimfire Air gun scopes and it's just too bad they don't make them like this anymore. I replaced these scopes for now with modern technology side focus scopes and may someday use these on bench rest guns due to the front AO and limited elevation travel on these 1" tubes. I have the JAPAN Bushnell Elite 4500 series with side 25yd focus .And the old school front AO versions seem better for MY eyes but at least they click reliably. Whenever possible I like to dial on every shot and trust JAPAN and USA made scopes over the years to be reliable. i had my share of Swarovsky and Schmidt&Bender and Zeiss and it seems like having to pay double to triple to get a little bit better scope. Yo!

Yep, Dale, a friend of Bob and I used one of those Burris 8-32's for many years in FT and did well. He is a master machinist and created a side focus mechanism off of the front AO, it was cool!

I remember when that first Bushnell 6-24 side focus came out, whichever series it was - can't remember, and the glass fell flat in comparison to the old AO 6-24's. 

Unfortunately that's the reality with expensive scopes, sharp diminitioning returns, but they are superior in a lot of ways. That's the money I had to pay to get the features I wanted back then about 7-8 years ago when I decided to take the plunge. Even though I didn't like spending that much money it was worth it to me. 

Wanting decent quality and an all .2 mil reticle in FFP I've defaulted to the Athlon Ares 4.5-27x50 but I wish it had a step up in glass and focused down to 10Y. If it did I'd sell most of my other scopes but I'd still keep those S&B's.

Bob, Franklink, and I, looked through all of Bob's scopes mentioned in this post yesterday and I think we all came to the same conclusion that the Tac Optics Bushnell was in last place optically. I was impressed with the reticle! I liked that it was all .5 mil hashes, meaning not mixed with .2's, as far as .5 mil reticles go, which aren't my favorite, numbers being off to the side was a plus, and the fine crosshair in the middle was a neat thing for precision. 

I still have one of the Burris 8-32s on my Walther LGU. They are tough scopes and clear, but as Yo mentioned , a little dark. We had 3 at 1 point and every one was a little different from the 1/8 moa per click. A friend had 3 and all his were different as well. Mine were 1/8, 1/7, and 1/9 moa. I really don't see how that was possible but measured them many times and they were perfectly repeatable. I agree on the clarity of those versus now but just as important to me is the weight. Everything is a TANK now.

And Steve, it was the Nitro in last place but the Midas Tac WAS a very clear leader. Actually didn't seem to be a dramatic difference between the TO and Nitro in clarity but BIG difference in function. Fun day yesterday and I did like that Helos 1-8. Nice reticle and clear in a compact form.

Bob

Click to expand...

Ha, it just goes to show us how our eyes see things differently. Darn, now I need to take a 2nd look. For whatever reason, even after adjusting the diopter to my eye, I couldn't get the TO's image to sharpen up fully, it just didn't look right to me??? 

Randy and I were just discussing how that your Aztec Emerald on your Crown had more pleasing glass to us than the TO. But the two Emeralds I have on loan, don't have very good glass to me (we didn't get a chance to discuss that yesterday), and I think that comes down to unit to unit variance.

And like your Argos BTR that has really good glass - when the windage knob isn't dialed almost all the way out. 

Then last week Randy and I gave the vote a tie between the Talos 4-14 and Primary Arms 4-14 but you liked the glass better in the PA.

Well we certainly agree the Midas TAC won out. I think it has better glass than my Ares BTR G2 ??? 

Fun, fun, all this comparing. I'm glad you are buying all these different scopes and we your friends get to peer through them.