Stunning results.... but not where you'd expect.

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Armstrong

Armstrong

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Nov 10, 2016
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TESTS....
In the mail today I received a Chronoscope "Combro Mk.4 cb-625." I have to say the general write up on these was very positive.
With claims of 0.8% accuracy on speed and tested to better than 0.5% I thought this was a safe bet for a beginner like me.

So with 2 sets of .22 pellets on the table and two sets of .177 pellets on the table I test speed using a Webley Typhoon (which despite the bad write-ups I really love using and find it very accurate, comfortable to use and easy to work with) and the second gun is my "un-doctored standard internals apart from some nice woods" Crosman 1377 @ 12 pumps. (+2 gave an extra 20fps or so)

SHOCKED!
Now take into consideration that I had NO IDEA how drastic different pellets are in the guns regarding speed until a few days ago which prompted this purchase. . This is just a speed test NOT an accuracy test. (No clouds were harmed during the making of this film....)
I was really impressed with peoples different speed results using different pellets.

I DIDNT EXPECT THAT!
Everything was going fine until..... I started using STORM bsa .22 15.43grain 1.0 gram pellets. But just see this picture because it says it all.

http://www.raggedybird.com/temp/tests_resized.jpg

The average speeds for the storm ranged from 890,937,920,990,1014.
I put a drop of pelgunoil in the back and across the front of one STORM pellet and the speed went into space at 1870fps several times. Toning down back to 900fps and 1000fps some 10 shots later.

My first thoughts were... that cant be.
So, crudely I tested a "Power hunter" .22 and fired it at a tree about 500 yards away.
Then I put in a Storm .22 and the "fire to strike" was way way less than half that of the Power hunter. There was almost no delay to speak of.

CONCLUSION.
There IS a difference using different pellets. I am no longer a "Doubting Thomas" as we say in England.

QUESTIONS?
Is the Storm Pellet illegal in the UK? Because of the speed it travels in this gun?
Is the pelgun oil illegal in the UK because of the stunning increase in speed it allows initially for all and any pellets used with this gun to break legal speeds.
Is the Webley Typhoon illegal because of its ability "as standard", ( because I bought this from a store, ) to fire certain pellets at speeds greater than legal allowances OR.......
Should the ridiculously paranoid laws of the UK be set by someone rather more intellectual than the buffoon who thought they could regulate a scenario with more permutations and more combinational infinities than could be catered for in a single law.

I could smash someones skull in with a chairleg.
Is the government going to blanket the UK business marketplace with floor cushions for every office? 
 
Just to refine the data above.... I used the same weight and detail with the Power Hunters as with Storm in the device.
I've just run the same tests again. And the results are about identical. Intriguing.

I would find it interesting to know what pellets were deployed and what condition the "test gun" was in during the government tests that allowed the laws to get set as they are. It's just that with such an important law to the UK (to the officials anyway. The public find it the usual farse.) the variables are so loose and flabby.

It would be fun, just to stretch the humour of government legislations even further, to have a manufacturer make an elastic band you could "ping" at someone at over 900fps.
Would the government...
a) Demand that the elastic band break before it reached that degree of kinetic energy?
b) Make the elastic band longer so that our arms just could not stretch far enough to "ping" the band at any dangerous speed?
c) Put an "18" certificate on them? :)
d) Demand that users had a Gun Licence before they could purchase them? 

I think tomorrow I'll see if I can do a video and show you the ridiculous speed differences shooting the tree 500 yards away and you can see for yourself... you don't need a meter to hear that the speed has more than doubled pellet to pellet. 
There's about half a second to fire and strike with the Power Hunters.
And about a 1/16th using the Storms. 

I'm now interested in what other pellets other users find (a) fast and (b) accurate and which they always use because.
 
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My initial thought is that the pellgun oil (which if I remember correctly is -ONLY- to be used on CO2 guns for this very reason! (as they operate in a much lower pressure range of around 60bar) diesels and thus makes it effectively (not by law but by physics...) a fire arm...
I'd say that the storm pellets have either a different (bigger) headsize, or are made of a much harder lead (e.g. like JSB vs Crosman pellets) so they allow the pressure to build up to a much higher one, enough to ignite the oil.
 
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If you're in the UK, and even If the Typhoon is new, or you've recently bought it from a UK store, then once you've put oil on the pellets or got oil in the pison chamber to cause dieselling, then that is YOUR responsibility. You really should know about that stuff.

It is YOUR responsibility to keep your air pistol below the 6fpe limit. Well done for using a chronograph to test.

But you've even told us (on the linked pic) that the internals of the Typhoon have been modded somehow, so it is even more your responsibility.

Even 520fps with a 15grain pellet from an air pistol is illegal in the UK. (Yes, pathetic, but that's what our democratically arrived at law says).

My advice to you is to either destroy the pistol or take it to a Registered Firearms dealer (or wherever you got it from) and ask them to clean out the piston chamber and unmodify it to make sure it comes below 6fpe - or do it yourself.

To continue to use it would be foolish and to post videos of it shooting at illegal power, even more so. Sorry, but you need to be told.

PS The 1870fps readings are very unlikely to be true readings.
 
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Hi good people....
Well, initially the Crosman 1377 is standard as came from the store in Devon. it is NOT modified as I've made clear.
The Typhoon is standard (assumingly) purchased from a reputable gun dealer in Newton Stewart, South Ayrshire. Neither of which I have modified.
The pellets came from the Gun Store in newton Stewart and Devon.
The pelgunoil was recommended by a sports gun store in Southern England too.
All this in summary is the result of someone new to the field (Me! :) ) trying to learn about the arena and relying on those around him who are supposed to know. (Or to know better.) You say I should know about this Dieseling... but I'm an Animation Engineer. A Disney..... I make Dragons Fly and Elves dance. How the hell would I know. :(

The dieseling as you refer to it makes sense. I redid the tests again after I posted this thread and the results were identical. Isn't that kind of scary? I mean... I have never heard of that until now. The speed is undeniably stunning. I wont do that again.

OK, the POWER HUNTER pellets are supposed to be lubricated with some kind of Magical Power-Lube as they call it. But they fire in the Typhoon at an average of about 525fps.
Every time.
Now enter the STORM .22 Pellets. They average 880fps. That's straight out of the tin through the Typhoon. No oil, nothing. As they come.
I tried some other non descript basic cheapo pellets and they made averages of about 390fps and 400fps. I tried everything I found here because I wanted to make sure the STORM's were the ingredient making the super levels.

What I don't get is that these pellets are legal in the UK. And for someone like me, totally NOT knowing but for the sake of my Chrono, and then putting the STORM's into a bog basic and not particularly expensive gun like the common or garden Typhoon..... suddenly finds himself in a slightly less than comfortable situation.

I can presume the Typhoon is basic stock standard. That, because of the rather mediocre reports on the other Pellets used. All averaging the normal output speed.

Very interesting field, this, and very intense learning curve complete with, as I said before.... those pitfalls.
But without your time and information I wouldn't know. Now I do. :) I am grateful and appreciate it.

I find this field very exciting. Of course I'll make some stupid mistakes. Dieseling an airgun???? Never in my life have I ever heard that one.
Please don't condemn me for not knowing.
 
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Without knowing the weight of all pellets involved it is hard to give you good feedback. From what I can find a bone stock Webley Typhoon in .22 is rated around 3.3 fpe, that is 330 fps with a 13.6gr pellet, and should never be able to fire any pellet near 800 fps.

I looked up the BSA Storm pellets also. There is nothing special listed about them on the BSA webpage, just a common domed pellet similar to JSB, Crosman and several other brands. Nothing about them should generate extra speed.

Are these "power hunter" pellets made by Napier? The lubricant they put on the pellets will get through a barrel faster than unlubricated pellets. This could account for your 525 fps reading on them, which is around 9 fpe, 3 fpe over the legal limit. Though I believe there is still some dieseling there.

A note on your 1377. Do not modify it to stay at the 6 fpe limit. The 13xx guns from Crosman right around 6 fpe with 10 pumps.
 
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Hi Bill.....
Here's a close in shopt of the pellets I used. All standard issue on a UK store shelf.

SEE THE PELLETS HERE.

And, yes, the Power Hunter pellets appear to be by Napier. I don't think it possible that a gun got through the customs without delimiting. But who knows.....
I'll take it in to the Newton Stewart Dealer I got it from and ask him to run a test backstage. See what happens for him. I have tried five different pellets in this gun now. Some are way overspeed but the Storms......... good news for hunters in another country without paranoid restrictive.

I just sit here and wonder..... the Power Hunters are supposed to have this "lubricant" as an integral part of the pellets material makeup. That is, impregnated with it in the material. So, presumably, as the pellet is driven down the barrel the sides crumbling even at a microscopic level, this material denies retardation and literally "slides" its way out.

That being the case are we getting to a stage where frictionless materials in use make projectiles start to reach speeds which cannot be controlled. Considering the case of STORM pellets I have at least.... wouldn't it be logical to start moderating pellet import and manufacture as well as Gun limiting.
The dieseling issue makes me feel that even for a shortened guns lifespan to "diesel" pellets down the barrel is half way to having a way more deadly firearm and grossly stepping over the line of the law set. 


However... my aims are innocent and this was not my outcome intention. My interest was to see what speed the Typhoon managed competing with the Crosman 1377. I've been totally open about it. Even at the risk of portraying myself as a total novice and I can't get advice from you..... 'professionals' if you like...... if I don't describe the scenario that confuses me. 
I'm not deterred. I learn. :)
 
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This is what I wanted to see..Velocity or Air Gun pellet speed
  • 177 / 4.5mm Air Rifle with have a pellet range of any where from about 7 grains to 17 grains gives a maximum of 875 fps with a 7 grains pellet and to 560 fps with a 17 grain pellet.
  • 22 / 5.5mm Air Rifle with have a pellet range of any where from about 9 grains to a massive 30 grains gives a maximum of 770 fps with a 9 grains pellet and to 420 fps with a 30 grain pellet
  • 177 / 4.5mm Air Pistol with have a pellet range of any where from about 7 grains to 17 grains gives a maximum of 620 fps with a 7 grains pellet and to 395 fps with a 17 grain pellet.
  •  22 / 5.5mm Air Pistol with have a pellet range of any where from about 9 grains to a massive 30 grains gives a maximum of 545 fps with a 9 grains pellet and to 295 fps with a 30 grain pellet."

From this I see that there's nothing that unusual about the results I experienced. Ignoring my misunderstanding of the oil.
 
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