ST barrel is better than traditional barrel when wind comes ???

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what I read in one thread here really makes me think that I have wasted 10 years in the airgunning hobby . Who can explain ST barrel's superiority in windy condition? I apprecitate it .





"I was adult and professional and stated facts about the ST barrel but he shot me down and tried telling me that the barrel in his gantlet is just as accurate as a ST. And I agreed with him on part of his statement that yes they may preform equally in perfect conditions. No wind and controlled environment, but I said that the ST barrel is better when wind comes into the equation. He argued with me and said no they are equal. So I respectfully said that we will agree to disagree and told him to have a blessed day and that was the end of the conversation. What I gathered from talking to him was that I'm right you're not your just trying to down something because you have a higher end rifle than me. " ——DakotaEnox8


 

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Air flowing across a spinning cylinder creates a force at 90 degrees to the direction of the air flow.... called Magnus effect. The more texture (to a point), the more force. This is the vertical change in a projectile in a cross wind. This same texture creates drag which allows the wind to act directly on the projectile. A cut rifled barrel imparts a fairly definite and sharp texture to the pellet where the ST barrel or the Walther poly impart no sharp imprints so there is less texture for less pronounced effect. It's been noted by some that the cut rifled barrel is more accurate in still conditions and shorter ranges but the ST and poly are generally better for wind and longer ranges. Each barrel is it's own entity though so I don't know if you could call it an absolute.

Bob 
 
I don't shoot bullseye, but I've gotten equal results with ST, ST-X and Lothar Walther on birds at 100+ yds.

I'm not partial to either type of rifling.........as long as I can hit stuff I'm happy. It has more to do with the person behind the trigger than anything. Mess up your wind call or hold for wind and you miss no matter which rifle you're shooting.
 
Air flowing across a spinning cylinder creates a force at 90 degrees to the direction of the air flow.... called Magnus effect. The more texture (to a point), the more force. This is the vertical change in a projectile in a cross wind. This same texture creates drag which allows the wind to act directly on the projectile. A cut rifled barrel imparts a fairly definite and sharp texture to the pellet where the ST barrel or the Walther poly impart no sharp imprints so there is less texture for less pronounced effect. It's been noted by some that the cut rifled barrel is more accurate in still conditions and shorter ranges but the ST and poly are generally better for wind and longer ranges. Each barrel is it's own entity though so I don't know if you could call it an absolute.

Bob

BOb,

Thank you very much.



Though the fuzzier the pellet is , the greater its Magnus force, 

Surface roughness also affects the boundary layer flow and reduces the drag ,like a golfball with dimples flies far further than that with a smooth surface , therefore a pellet with rough surface has a small windage.

Magnus force on a low rotation speed pellet can be ignored , but the windage is a significant variable.



In terms of high rotation speed bullets and firearms, most of the long range precision shooting barrels are cut-rifled such as Krieger ,brux, instead of polygon or smooth twist.



I saw Southern Gunner 's comment of that youtube video, SG as a retired professionally well trained sniper totally agreed with STKO . 

I'm no fan of SG or STKO. I just focus on the truth like I first spoke out the poor accuracy of HUBEN k1 shooting normal dablo pellets (at the beginning, no slug shooting at all. In order to promote Huben, some people keep saying huben is desgined for shooting slugs. what a funny story. after 3 +years, can you buy huben mass production slugs at a cheap price?? if its designed for slugs. why no proper ammo for sale? )












 
I fully appreciate the scientific aspect of the differences, I'm just going by my own shooting style. 

Same reason I don't hand-load for my 6.5 Creedmoor. I found a factory load that works extremely well for the accuracy I want. 1/2 moa (well, 1 5/8") at 300 yds is good for coyote hunting. And I can ring a 6" steel plate at 600yds 3 of 4 shots (if the first shot misses, normally the next three don't) on most days, again good enough for coyotes. If I ever got into bullseye shooting, I'm sure I'd get into hand loading.

I think the best thing a person can do is learn as much as they can from each person they speak with, and apply however much of what they want or need for their own style of shooting. If what one person can offer doesn't apply to me, that doesn't mean they are wrong. Most people have far more knowledge of this stuff than I do, and a lot of it just goes right over my head.


 
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I fully appreciate the scientific aspect of the differences, I'm just going by my own shooting style. 

Same reason I don't hand-load for my 6.5 Creedmoor. I found a factory load that works extremely well for the accuracy I want. 1/2 moa (well, 1 5/8") at 300 yds is good for coyote hunting. And I can ring a 6" steel plate at 600yds 3 of 4 shots (if the first shot misses, normally the next three don't) on most days, again good enough for coyotes. If I ever got into bullseye shooting, I'm sure I'd get into hand loading.

I think the best thing a person can do is learn as much as they can from each person they speak with, and apply however much of what they want or need for their own style of shooting. If what one person can offer doesn't apply to me, that doesn't mean they are wrong. Most people have far more knowledge of this stuff than I do, and a lot of it just goes right over my head.


Sorry Bob_O. The above Bob refers to Arzrover . 

Bob_O , I couldn't agree more . No STX or polygon barrels outshoot conventional rifled barrel in my experience
 
I don't shoot bullseye, but I've gotten equal results with ST, ST-X and Lothar Walther on birds at 100+ yds.

I'm not partial to either type of rifling.........as long as I can hit stuff I'm happy. It has more to do with the person behind the trigger than anything. Mess up your wind call or hold for wind and you miss no matter which rifle you're shooting.

I have to agree with Bob on this, I’m the same way being I shoot steel plates not paper, I’m happy hitting my 2” AR500 plates at 100 yards and just as happy hitting my 3,4,5 and 6 inch plates, I do zero in on paper out to 75 yards then it’s all holdover with my airguns, BP I do 100 yard zeros and 200 yard zeros depending on caliber.

For those of us who shoot PB’s and airguns it’s fun just to see the difference in ballistics/velocity between the two, get used to shooting 1260 to 2800/3200 FPS down to airguns shooting 750-950 FPS with same size bullets. Just a ruff comparison.



Bob, side note. My 6.5 likes Hornady Matched 140 gr A-Max, I do have die and bullets plus powder to reload but have a lot of the 140gr on had to last awhile, build up my brass to make it worth while.
 
Air flowing across a spinning cylinder creates a force at 90 degrees to the direction of the air flow.... called Magnus effect. The more texture (to a point), the more force. This is the vertical change in a projectile in a cross wind. This same texture creates drag which allows the wind to act directly on the projectile. A cut rifled barrel imparts a fairly definite and sharp texture to the pellet where the ST barrel or the Walther poly impart no sharp imprints so there is less texture for less pronounced effect. It's been noted by some that the cut rifled barrel is more accurate in still conditions and shorter ranges but the ST and poly are generally better for wind and longer ranges. Each barrel is it's own entity though so I don't know if you could call it an absolute.

Bob

☝️ very good explanation. I concur. 
 
But you need to account for different tooling runs on both. You wouldn't want a 16mm circa 2005 LW in .22 and or a ..... ............ . Have there been any changes at .... , yes.

For years you could build a .177 at a full 20fpe and get great groups ( lw barrel ) then you couldnt, shucks. This went on so long the "under 880fps" ( or 900 or any ole number) for .177 groups became "knowledge" and people wanting full 20fpe needed to source barrels anyway they could.

Now you can again get an LW that will group well @1,000+fps in .177, times change. Compaire the best of both and you may not see as much difference as in recent past.





Sure enough the rougher the outside edges of a pelle the more it suffers at range.



John


 
Air flowing across a spinning cylinder creates a force at 90 degrees to the direction of the air flow.... called Magnus effect. The more texture (to a point), the more force. This is the vertical change in a projectile in a cross wind. This same texture creates drag which allows the wind to act directly on the projectile. A cut rifled barrel imparts a fairly definite and sharp texture to the pellet where the ST barrel or the Walther poly impart no sharp imprints so there is less texture for less pronounced effect. It's been noted by some that the cut rifled barrel is more accurate in still conditions and shorter ranges but the ST and poly are generally better for wind and longer ranges. Each barrel is it's own entity though so I don't know if you could call it an absolute.

Bob

^This is the answer, and why we now see polygonal barrels starting to dominate in places like Extreme Benchrest. (note Daystate now uses polygonal barrels too after getting their ass kicked several years running by FX's original Smooth Twist barrels which are, quite frankly, a bit of a manufacturing hack that really end up acting as kind poorly performing polygonal gain-twist barrels) 

There is no real debate that polygonal barrels are, hypothetically all else being equal, are superior to your typical sharp cut land and groove rifled barrels. They also tend to produce better gas seal. The problem here though, the reason for all the disclaimers of "hypothetically all else being equal" is that there is a lot more to manufacturing a good barrel than the rifling. Take the firearms industry for example: Bartlein barrels are currently dominating long range shooting, and they use single point cut land and groove rifling. Why? I maintain it is because of the care with which they make their barrels. 

I must confess, I'm rather surprised to hear that an Umarex Gauntlet was a contender here. A lapped Lothar Walther out of a RAW or Daystate I could understand someone making the argument, although the best shooters at the time suggest that still is incorrect again look at EBR, but an entry level Gauntlet? To be brutally honest, sounds denial to me. It is a big river with crocodiles and a nice view of the pyramids. Precision shooters don't generally quantify barrels in terms of "just as accurate," because they've shot the groups and done the math and can tell you on average how much more or less accurate something is, and there is ALWAYS a difference. 
 
I’m my journey, I’ve found that smooth twist barrels are more sensitive to pellet selection and pellet speeds than conventionally rifled barrels. My most accurate rifles have all been conventionally rifled. The other thing is I have found I can push pellets significantly faster in rifled barrels as opposed to smooth twist and still maintain excellent accuracy. 

I now have a LabRadar chronograph so I have a method of obtaining accurate ballistic coefficients but I no longer have anything with ST barrel. I would be honestly curious to see what difference there is in the BC from the same rounds shot from a ST barrel and rifled barrel. I’m thinking the real world, measured difference is very small. 




 
Air flowing across a spinning cylinder creates a force at 90 degrees to the direction of the air flow.... called Magnus effect. The more texture (to a point), the more force. This is the vertical change in a projectile in a cross wind. This same texture creates drag which allows the wind to act directly on the projectile. A cut rifled barrel imparts a fairly definite and sharp texture to the pellet where the ST barrel or the Walther poly impart no sharp imprints so there is less texture for less pronounced effect. It's been noted by some that the cut rifled barrel is more accurate in still conditions and shorter ranges but the ST and poly are generally better for wind and longer ranges. Each barrel is it's own entity though so I don't know if you could call it an absolute.

Bob

^This is the answer, and why we now see polygonal barrels starting to dominate in places like Extreme Benchrest. (note Daystate now uses polygonal barrels too after getting their ass kicked several years running by FX's original Smooth Twist barrels which are, quite frankly, a bit of a manufacturing hack that really end up acting as kind poorly performing polygonal gain-twist barrels) 

There is no real debate that polygonal barrels are, hypothetically all else being equal, are superior to your typical sharp cut land and groove rifled barrels. They also tend to produce better gas seal. The problem here though, the reason for all the disclaimers of "hypothetically all else being equal" is that there is a lot more to manufacturing a good barrel than the rifling. Take the firearms industry for example: Bartlein barrels are currently dominating long range shooting, and they use single point cut land and groove rifling. Why? I maintain it is because of the care with which they make their barrels. 

I must confess, I'm rather surprised to hear that an Umarex Gauntlet was a contender here. A lapped Lothar Walther out of a RAW or Daystate I could understand someone making the argument, although the best shooters at the time suggest that still is incorrect again look at EBR, but an entry level Gauntlet? To be brutally honest, sounds denial to me. It is a big river with crocodiles and a nice view of the pyramids. Precision shooters don't generally quantify barrels in terms of "just as accurate," because they've shot the groups and done the math and can tell you on average how much more or less accurate something is, and there is ALWAYS a difference.

Polygon barrels dominate in places ? I don't think so . 

The FACT is, except the Extreme benchrest, land & groove barrels dominate in short-range low power airgun shooting competitions all over the world

The FACT is conventionally rifled barrels dominate almost all the firearm competitions all over the world

The FACT is almost all the snipers use Land & groove barrels all over the world.

Why do polygon barrels dominate in EB ? it's just because FX focuses on high power airgun platform and they do a good job. It's not because FX use the polygon barrels. Daystate will not dominate in EB even if they use polygon barrels. In other words, Fx will still dominate in EB, even if they use land&groove barrels.



Fx will never win the Nobel prize in the barrel making industry. The inventor of polygon barrels didn't win a nobel pirze. Polygon was not, is not ,will never be a high-tech stuff. 

All the major barrel makers in the world with far more capital expense , far more talents, far more patents than FX ,mainly produce conventional land&groove barrels.


 
Don't be too quick as to knock the Umarex Gauntlet. I have to admit I bought one in 22 and to me it is a piece of crap and a really heavy one at that but it regularly does half inch groups or better at 50 yards so it is a surprisingly accurate shooting piece of crap. I was so impressed by it that I bought another piece of crap in 177 and await its delivery as well after getting first hand info from a friend who routinely got sub half inch groups with his in 177.

I hadn't planned on buying a Gauntlet because it was made in China and had bad experiences with Chinese made guns in the past but after seeing Hajimoto's 50 yard asprin busting videos I just had to try one. After smoothening out the bolt and trigger it is a more enjoyable shooting piece of crap.

What is really surprising to me is that it cost between one fifth to one sixth the price of my Laminate FX Wildcat and gives it a real run for its money in the accuracy department.


Walt
 
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Air flowing across a spinning cylinder creates a force at 90 degrees to the direction of the air flow.... called Magnus effect. The more texture (to a point), the more force. This is the vertical change in a projectile in a cross wind. This same texture creates drag which allows the wind to act directly on the projectile. A cut rifled barrel imparts a fairly definite and sharp texture to the pellet where the ST barrel or the Walther poly impart no sharp imprints so there is less texture for less pronounced effect. It's been noted by some that the cut rifled barrel is more accurate in still conditions and shorter ranges but the ST and poly are generally better for wind and longer ranges. Each barrel is it's own entity though so I don't know if you could call it an absolute.

Bob

^This is the answer, and why we now see polygonal barrels starting to dominate in places like Extreme Benchrest. (note Daystate now uses polygonal barrels too after getting their ass kicked several years running by FX's original Smooth Twist barrels which are, quite frankly, a bit of a manufacturing hack that really end up acting as kind poorly performing polygonal gain-twist barrels) 

There is no real debate that polygonal barrels are, hypothetically all else being equal, are superior to your typical sharp cut land and groove rifled barrels. They also tend to produce better gas seal. The problem here though, the reason for all the disclaimers of "hypothetically all else being equal" is that there is a lot more to manufacturing a good barrel than the rifling. Take the firearms industry for example: Bartlein barrels are currently dominating long range shooting, and they use single point cut land and groove rifling. Why? I maintain it is because of the care with which they make their barrels. 

I must confess, I'm rather surprised to hear that an Umarex Gauntlet was a contender here. A lapped Lothar Walther out of a RAW or Daystate I could understand someone making the argument, although the best shooters at the time suggest that still is incorrect again look at EBR, but an entry level Gauntlet? To be brutally honest, sounds denial to me. It is a big river with crocodiles and a nice view of the pyramids. Precision shooters don't generally quantify barrels in terms of "just as accurate," because they've shot the groups and done the math and can tell you on average how much more or less accurate something is, and there is ALWAYS a difference.

Polygon barrels dominate in places ? I don't think so . 

The FACT is, except the Extreme benchrest, land & groove barrels dominate in short-range low power airgun shooting competitions all over the world

The FACT is conventionally rifled barrels dominate almost all the firearm competitions all over the world

The FACT is almost all the snipers use Land & groove barrels all over the world.

Why do polygon barrels dominate in EB ? it's just because FX focuses on high power airgun platform and they do a good job. It's not because FX use the polygon barrels. Daystate will not dominate in EB even if they use polygon barrels. In other words, Fx will still dominate in EB, even if they use land&groove barrels.



Fx will never win the Nobel prize in the barrel making industry. The inventor of polygon barrels didn't win a nobel pirze. Polygon was not, is not ,will never be a high-tech stuff. 

All the major barrel makers in the world with far more capital expense , far more talents, far more patents than FX ,mainly produce conventional land&groove barrels.










I have actually been following the precision rifle world for some time now, at least reasonably closely, for both gunpowder and air. If you keep an eye on Cal Zant's work for example, you'll note that almost everyone uses single point cut rifled barrels. The why there is important though, and this is where I think you and I start to diverge. I'm talking more about the theory side of things, and I at least believe you're talking more the practice side of things. So lets talk quickly about the why of that. There is a lot more time and money in the firearms industry, so I'll use that as the example. 

Bartlein, Kreiger, K&P, you name it, the brands that dominate PRS are all land and groove single point cut rifling. Why, especially when polygonal is better? (and remember, it is better not just in terms of ballistics which is what we're "debating" here, it is demonstrably better in terms of other things including muzzle velocity due to gas seal, reduced fouling, increased barrel life which is extremely important in these high throat erosion precision barrels which can have lifespans of less than 1000 rounds, etc) The answer isn't in how they perform, it is in how they're manufactured. A single point cut rifled barrel is made from a bar stock which is first gundrilled, and then (as implied by the name) cut at a single point in the bore by a CNC machine. This allows any rifling pattern, any twist rate, and even complex architectures such as gain twist rates to be trivially manufactured. For guys who precision shoot in the firearms industry, this is great for them because they're constantly experimenting to develop their own loads, chambers, and barrels to get the best performance possible. Now compare this to how you make a polygonal barrel. You have two choices: button rifling or cold hammer forging. Both rifling buttons and CHF mandrels are comparatively expensive pieces of tooling, not to mention the CHF machine itself is incredibly expensive. CHF results in demonstrably superior barrels, however the cost means only larger manufacturers can afford to do it. While it is possible to make a gain twist rifled barrel via that technology, doing so is even more expensive as it requires a full mandrel for that specific barrel. Button rifling can only cut a single twist rate (rare exceptions apply), and would require quite a special button to put a choke on a barrel as well. And again, in both these cases, the startup cost for a twist rate in a given caliber is high, much higher than cut rifling, which is why cut rifling is much more common and dominates even at the high end of precision rifle shooting.

Similar reasons as this apply to other such as airguns, as we tend to get the cast-offs of the firearms industry. The observable difference in performance is quite small, particularly at short range low power competitions, so manufacturers are unlikely to invest in polygonal. Also things like barrel life are so much higher with airguns many people consider them to be essentially "unlimited" or implicitly do anyway as they don't even consider it, so one of the major advantages of polygonal is scrubbed away right there. Another is we don't shoot jacketed ammo with airguns, so scrub away another advantage of polygonal there as well. 

Snipers the world over use whatever the military issues to them, and some of those guns are land and groove cut and some are polygonal (such as the PSG-1 or LaRue), and the same holds true for issue weapons as a matter of fact. We can debate the relevance of "what the military uses" but generally speaking I think of what the military uses as being dictated at best by what fulfills the requirement cheapest and at worst what company bought off the right politicians. The US military is still using .308 as a long range precision rifle cartridge (not exclusively, granted), a decision which wasn't great even when it was made. Far from optimized technology. 

To be clear, I'm not making an argument for or against FX in all of this. Their original smooth twist barrels, in my opinion, were a clever manufacturing hack to bring barrel manufacturing in-house for even cheaper than a single point cut rifling machine/s in order to keep up with production. A mostly smooth barrel with rifling only the last couple inches is NOT the optimal way to spin a projectile, but it is a credit to their ingenuity that they got it to work. The same can be said of their current STX barrel liner system. It is a clever manufacturing workaround, but it is not the optimal way to apply the technology. To my knowledge Daystate and RAW are now using proper polygonal barrels turned from a larger OD blank and made via whatever technology LW is using, which is how you'd want it done. I at least suspect this was spurred on by FX's success with the technology, but I highly doubt they'd do it if they didn't see better results from it.

EBR was simply an example because it is one of the most prestigious high power airgun competitions I'm aware of, and draws some of the biggest players in the game from around the world to come compete. So it is a sandbox in which the latest technology can play, and while such competitions are also skill based meaning it isn't the end all, I do think it is worthwhile to keep an eye on the results and use that as an indicator of what is working. 

Not FX, or anyone, would win a Nobel Prize for polygonal rifling because the first Nobel prizes were awarded in 1901, at which time polygonal rifling technology was centuries old. It is FAR from a new technology. 

I hope that clears everything up. I'm not some FX ***** hanging on Ted Bier's every word. I'm just an engineer, with some vague background in the tactical industry. Plenty of competitions have been, and will continue to be, won with land and groove rifling, but there are still definitive advantages to polygonal rifling OF EQUAL QUALITY MANUFACTURE AND OTHERWISE IDENTICAL SYSTEMS to land and groove rifling. Again I put that disclaimer in because the differences are NOT massive, and you have to go looking for them, but when you're looking for an advantage of say .02 miliradians averaged over dozens of groups, you're really going to have to go looking. Advantages which are huge and obvious aren't called advantages anymore because everyone has adopted them and is using them. 

And because I'm just some random dude from the internet, I've got a couple sources, some general, some anecdotal, you can peruse if you're interested. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygonal_rifling

https://bearingarms.com/ccantrell/2010/06/08/barrels-and-bullets-conventional-versus-polygonal-rifling/

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/rifling.html

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/06/10/the-more-you-know-polygonal-rifling/

http://www.majorpandemic.com/2012/07/ultimate-1022-shootout-test.html



I hope all this is helpful to someone. 




 
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Good points STO -

I agree with much of what you wrote above, most of it is spot on. A couple of things to clarify... (apology in advance because this is a little off-topic)

I've been involved with precision long range shooting for over two decades both professionally and recreationally. I've competed in PRS events, small bore benchrest, long range F-Class and several other disciplines. Much of what is developed in the firearms industry trickles down in one way or another to the air gun world. There is absolutely no argument that for centerfire rifles, cut rifling is without a doubt the best we currently have available. Benchrest shooters, Olympians, F-class shooters and the like all look for any technological advancement to increase their chances of winning. It's not uncommon for a benchrest shooter to order a dozen identical barrel blanks for their competition rifle and go through the process of loading for each one until they get that "one special barrel" to use for a season.... If there was an advantage to be gained from poly barrels, we would see it on the world stage...

Single point cut rifling is desirable for a couple reasons... you can rifle a barrel that has already been contoured for starters. The amount of stress imparted on a barrel tube during the cut rifling process is far, far less than button rifling and there is less of a chance to introduce a deviation on the concentricity of the bore. The machinery and tooling for both cut and button rifling is proprietary and not exactly cheap... I would not say one is any cheaper than the other. When barrels are button rifled, a single diameter, non contoured gun-drilled blank is placed in a special machine and a rifling button is either pushed or pulled through the tube... There is quite a bit of stress imparted on the barrel during the process but it is controllable. After the barrel is rifled, it is contoured and sold off. Hammer forging is a whole other ball of wax.... It never caught on for precision shooting for a few reasons... first was the cost of the machinery to hammer forge barrels... The machinery is expensive to say the least. Second, the manufacturing process of hammer forged barrels itself is really limited to making changes on the fly... With cut rifled or button rifled barrels the operator can change twist rates easily by simply changing the rate at which the cutter is passed through the barrel. With hammer forging, an entirely new forging mandrel is required. In all of these processes, there are barrels made that are extremely accurate and precise. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

If I were building the ultimate pellet rifle with no budget, I would pick my manufacturer of choice (partial to Hawk Hill) and have them make me a single point, cut rifled barrel for that project. Downrange pellet stability is more effected by twist rate and speed than little grooves on the skirt and head from the rifling.

What is funny to me is in the handgun world, Glock and HK use poly rifled barrels in there pistols and its very common for shooters to replace these barrels with conventionally cut rifled barrels. some do it for accuracy reasons but some do it if they will be shooting non-jacket, cast lead bullets. In the polygonal barrels, shooting the softer cast lead bullets has been proven to lead up the barrels rather quickly which can lead to an increase in pressure and ultimately a catastrophe. I have no experience with the Poly barrels RAW and Daystate use on their .25 and .30 cal rifles but I am now curious if these foul with lead or not...

I was recently messing with an old Marlin .22 rimfire my father had. Marlin uses a process called micro-grove rifling where the rifling grooves are slightly shallower, but there are many more lands and grooves in an effort to lessen the distortion on the jacket. I wonder if this would have any merit in the airgun world?



Here's an excerpt on Marlin's rimfire micro groove rifling:

Marlin introduced Microgroove rifling in their .22 rimfire barrels in July 1953, with 16 grooves that were .014" wide, and nominally .0015" deep. Ballard rifled barrels have grooves generally in the range of .069-.090" wide, and .0015-.003" deep. This change was marketed in the 1954 Marlin catalog, as having numerous advantages that this new form of rifling had, including better accuracy, ease of cleaning, elimination of gas leakage, higher velocities and lower chamber pressures. The catalog also claimed that Microgroove rifling did not distort the bullet jacket as deeply as Ballard rifling hence improving accuracy with jacketed bullets at standard velocity.




 
So I have to ask, do you have a primary source on an emperical test for barrel leading on polygonal vs. land and groove? I'm genuinely curious as I've spent years trying to run this down, and all I've found are a string of anecdotes and bad methodology all leading back to Glock saying they don't recommend cast bullets in their barrels but with the reasoning vague and un-testable. (I've also seen people run cast bullets through factory Glock barrels and have no problem, again a useless anecdote, but no clear causal link was obvious) Ignoring the vast differences in leading mechanics between centerfire weapons and airguns, I'm just genuinely curious to find a dataset or some good primary research on it anywhere. There are a whole bunch of possible mechanisms for and against leading in polygonal vs land and groove, so I'm genuinely curious to see how the chips fall on that one. Sadly good published primary research is hard to come by, so if you have some please share the love. 

Also I want to thank you for taking the time to have this chat with me. Typing up these responses is time consuming. :)