Springer question

Not an expert, but I would venture to say that’s because it goes into Custom territory. The cost would probably be much higher & profits may take a hit. Lots of folk shoot their HWs out the box and are very happy with results. 

Hi Sonny. You are correct in implying there is no need to change springs etc with after market ones. The only time I change my oem spring and seals is when they wear out. Apart from that I prefer to keep my springers factory specs. However I’m pretty sure that there are plenty of people out there who will be able to claim their springers perform far better after replacing the oem parts with custom ones. 

is there any airguns that can't be improved and that answer is no

are there airguns that don't need improving and my answer is yes some are very hard to improve

so why do shooter change out parts and that answer is this is a hobby

part of the hobby is putting small holes as close together as you can and the other part is tinkering with there guns

so when you buy a motorcycle do leave it stock from the factory, I never have

Do you have scopes on any of your springers ? Why ? most come with sights.

If they needed scopes wouldn't they come with one ?

Springers can be made better, smoother, faster, slower, more accurate, etc. with tuning, do you have too ? No

Do some (like me) want to tune every springer they own...........Yep, just makes the whole experience more pleasent for me.

I don’t know if this is relevant to the op’s question but there are a few guys on this forum who are very happy with their Sig Asp 20’s and apparently they were made tinker proof. 

Gary

There are very few things in the world that cannot be improved upon when straight out of the factory. I sometimes tear things apart as soon as I can get hold of the upgrade parts. Manufacturers are out to sell things and make money. There is a market for their goods at a certain price point. After that sales drop off so they try to stay where the money is. The money is not in the best product available because few can afford or would purchase it. Therefore there are often aftermarket parts available shortly after some things hit the market. Some just for looks others to actually improve upon the product. My brother likes to leave everything stock I like to modify everything. ;^) It's all good that we can choose what we do with what we buy. I modify most of my airguns, firearms, cars, bicycles, computers and some of my stereo equipment. Oh, and let's not forget the house. Mostly performance upgrades but a few cosmetic changes as well.

Which would you rather have the stock $70 price point?

Crosman sells loads of these.



Or the modified $500 price point.

How many of these would they sell?



Crosman 2240

Custom Air shop breech

Marauder magazine

Modified valve

DAQ Hammer spring adjuster

FX .22 stx barrel liner with carbon shroud

System-X dropforward

13ci 3000psi bottle with 1200psi reg

Bushnell scope

Purple heart grips by ?

I have AA, Walther, Weihauch and other spring rifles. All of the premium rifles shoot well out of the box, but when someone like Scott Schneider at Motorhead gets a hold of them, and custom fits the top hat, springs, and other components to really tight tolerances, the harmonics of the rifle improve beyond what can be done at mass produced pricing standards, and the results are amazing.

Many people can really enjoy out-of-the-box performances from any of these rifles, but for those of us that really want the most out of our air weapons, nothing can compare to a custom tuned gun by a highly experienced professional. And once we get $1,000 plus into a rifle and optics, the extra +/- $350 to maximize the performance over many years and thousands of shots, it somewhat immaterial.

I hope this helps.

I think all the manufacturers could sell "tuned" guns, but I don't think they would sell many.

Most people want the fastest for the cheapest.

A very small percentage of people want to pay $500 to $1000 upfront for a springer.

I wouldn't spend that much on one for a long time.

Now if I buy a new gun I ship it directly to the tuner, I factor in the cost before I purchase the gun.

If you buy a new quality springer, and shoot the $%&# out of it and get it broken in, they smooth out a lot.

I have AA, Walther, Weihauch and other spring rifles. All of the premium rifles shoot well out of the box, but when someone like Scott Schneider at Motorhead gets a hold of them, and custom fits the top hat, springs, and other components to really tight tolerances, the harmonics of the rifle improve beyond what can be done at mass produced pricing standards, and the results are amazing.

Many people can really enjoy out-of-the-box performances from any of these rifles, but for those of us that really want the most out of our air weapons, nothing can compare to a custom tuned gun by a highly experienced professional. And once we get $1,000 plus into a rifle and optics, the extra +/- $350 to maximize the performance over many years and thousands of shots, it somewhat immaterial.

I hope this helps.



^^^^^^^THIS +++100

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Hmmmmm, I wonder why AZ, David Slade, Ernest Rowe, Motorhead, Ken Hicks and others have a waiting time for tune service. Springers and pcp's need a tune. They are not working on the low end stuff.

If you have been reading these types of threads as long as I have there is a recurring theme that emerges. And that is that accuracy may have been improved somewhat by tuning, but there is almost always a definite improvement in smoothness of the shot cycle.

So here is my experience with two Vortek tunes. The Vortek kit includes a new seal, inner and outer guides closely fitted to the spring, as well as a buffer to help dampen vibration and noise. The first was to a TX200. It involved a simple switch out of spring, guides and seal followed by lubrication of the piston using the supplied grease. The result was a rifle that had a little less noise and vibration, but no dramatic improvement to what was already a very smooth shooting rifle.

The second was to an R9. This rifle had always smoked a little due to excess factory lubrication, and after several years of shooting the spring finally broke. When I tore it down I found the sheet metal shield inside the piston had been damaged at some point when the end of the spring caught one of the folded over tabs at its front end. Questionable design. I also saw the cocking slot in the piston was rather rough, so I polished that area and a few other rough spots I found. After installing the Vortek kit, the once gritty cocking stroke was now glass smooth, and the harsh firing cycle was converted to a solid thunk. Essentially my $300 rifle had been transformed into a $500 rifle.

So I think the answer is that it depends on what you are starting with. If there are some questionable design elements, generous tolerences, and rough machining present, it can definitely be worth your time to tear the rifle down and make some improvements.

If a company like for instance Weihrauch builds their guns with parts to make them function at their best, why would you need to replace major parts like springs and pistons ? I'm just curious why they wouldn't put the best parts for their guns in the first place rather than needing an after market part to make them preform their best from day 1. I can see a better suppressor, sights things of that nature. Is there a springer that (can't be improved) with after market parts?

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The companies build their rifles to a price point. The intent is to provide a certain level of quality at a certain price point AND make a profit. Generally (not always) the more you pay up front the better quality you take home. Generally the more you pay up front the smoother, more accurate, and more beautiful the product you receive from the manufacturer.

It should never be necessary to tune a rifle direct from the factory but that does not mean it should never be done. There are any number of reasons someone might want to tune a new rifle. They might want that extra bit of smoothness in the shot cycle or a bit more accuracy. They might want more power or more reliability. They might want some combination of all of these things. Tuning offers that sort of customization.

You have asked a question which presumes it IS necessary to replace major parts on a new rifle. Generally it is not necessary, and if it is then the manufacturer may have a quality control issue and probably will warrant the rifle.

I don't do a lot of tuning on anything outside of what I can do in my shop with hand tools. I do have a favorite tuner who does rifles when I want one of the girls tuned. He has never failed to send me back a rifle that I liked even more than the day I shipped it off to him. My magnum springers will all pass the ten dimes challenge. None of them would before I shipped them to John. They were magnum rifles and after he tamed them, they were still magnum rifles but some power was sacrificed to attain the kind of accuracy which makes true the old adage, "Speed is fine. Accuracy is final."

Most shooters don't tune a new rifle from the factory. I like to shoot mine a few thousand times before I think about tuning.

I have AA, Walther, Weihauch and other spring rifles. All of the premium rifles shoot well out of the box, but when someone like Scott Schneider at Motorhead gets a hold of them, and custom fits the top hat, springs, and other components to really tight tolerances, the harmonics of the rifle improve beyond what can be done at mass produced pricing standards, and the results are amazing.

Many people can really enjoy out-of-the-box performances from any of these rifles, but for those of us that really want the most out of our air weapons, nothing can compare to a custom tuned gun by a highly experienced professional. And once we get $1,000 plus into a rifle and optics, the extra +/- $350 to maximize the performance over many years and thousands of shots, it somewhat immaterial.

I hope this helps.

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I used to have the same train of thought as the OP's. Then I had my 460 tuned by Scott Schneider. Now I've come over to this side of the question. The only rifle I've bought that didn't need a tune is my LGU, and then only after treating the spring to Tune In A Tub. That was earlier today to ameliorate a very slight twang and vibration. All gone!