SM barrels vs LW barrels

Forums Other Parts, Accessories, & Equipment SM barrels vs LW barrels

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    james.dean
    Participant
    Member

    Which one would you choose guys? And why? We read everything and its opposite on the internet that’s why I’m asking here… as I might soon buy a FAC .25 wildcat…
    I mostly shoot long range (over 90 yards) so please, don’t take the extreme benchrest example to say FX is the best ^^ as the max range in this compétition is 75 yards….
    I know every single video from Ted, still, I’d like to have other feedback from long range shooters with SM barrel..
    Thanks and good shooting !! =)

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    17bullet
    Participant
    Member

    Well if they can shoot out to 75 yards accurately, then I just can’t think what would go horribly wrong in another 15 yards. 

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    james.dean
    Participant
    Member

    Well I’m talking more about +35 yards and more… and I know the longer your shot is, the more accuracy issues are highlighted… (is that English? ^^)

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    DKL
    Participant
    Member

    I do not buy FX anymore because of theit smooth twist barrels and I am not the only one.
    Also wait to hear review s from airgunners before buying a rifle that just hut the marget…I would buy a valcun or cricket or Edgun

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    Ted
    Participant
    Member

    The thing that strikes me as odd in the “debate” of ST vs LW barrels is the lack of experience coupled with unyielding opinions.  I hear both sides use theory and conjecture to defend their positions.  The truth is that both barrels work, and both are capable of world-class accuracy.  I own several guns, having both LW and ST barrels.  And, contrary to what you may read, NONE of my guns are professionally tuned or “special”.  They are all factory stock.  My most accurate .177 is my MK4 (LW).  My most accurate .22 is a tie between a Royale (ST) and a Wolverine (LW).  My most accurate .25 is my Bobcat .25 (ST).

    BOTH kinds of barrels shoot well past 100 yards.  My Royale and Wolverine .22’s are a dead-tie at 25 yards – 50 yards – 100 yards – 150 yards.  Neither is better than the other at any range.  

    I can say definitively that there is less variation with ST barrels.  They all shoot well from 600-930fps.  You buy the gun – buy JSB pellets – and off you go.  No need to try a several pellet brands, or spend hours doing chronograph work.   

    LW barrels, on rare occasions, have the ability to drive pellets close to 1000fps and remain stable.  I have seen this.  Kip Perow owns an Air Wolf .22 that slings 16gr JSB’s at 1000+fps without any destabilization.  But, his gun is exceptional.  It is the gun I did so well with at the first Extreme Benchrest, and it is the gun he won the US nationals 50m contest with last year.  I have offered him $5000 for that gun because I KNOW it is one in a thousand (Kip declined).  There are some guys out there who have had a similar experience with their LW barrels, and I am envious of their luck.  But, their guns are the exception; not the norm.  And, the flip side of that coin is that some LW barrels are inferior – there have been “good batches and bad batches” over the years.    

    The winner of Extreme Benchrest last year was Tim McMurray.  The year before that, the winner was Chris Warwick.  Chris scored 237 (2013) and 235 (2014) out of a possible 250.  Both years he shot his [stock] FX Boss .30.  Tim won the competition last year with one of his own .30 creations (neither LW or ST barrel on his gun).  Had Tim and Chris swapped guns, I would bet their scores would not have been much different.  

    Additionally, last year the three highest scores at 25m were achieved by Shane Kellar, Mike Manabe, and Bob Corcoran.  Shane used a .22 Royale (ST).  Mike used a .22 RAW (LW).  And Bob used a .177 USFT (barrel unknown).  

    My point to all this rambling – do NOT obsess over this “debate”.  Get the gun that suits your needs, wants, and likes.  And, if you ever want to be humbled, or think that your gun is not living up to your expectations, put it in the hands of a shooter like Tim, Chris, Shane, Mike Bob and in all likelihood you will soon find out that the gun is not the issue.

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    NeilClague
    Spectator
    Spectator

    ahahahha  well said Ted, like my father always told me growing up ”a bad workman always blames his tools” it is not always the gun that is to blame. I get the occasional flier myself and when I do I blame myself for doing something wrong, trigger squeeze, breathing, or hold. I do not discount fliers and just call them a flier, a 10 shot group is what you get. But I am not saying a bad pellet can not cause a flier, I am just saying that I do not blame a flier on a bad pellet automatically, I just try harder to make sure my next group is tighter, Neil.

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    Ben10
    Participant
    Member

    Well said Ted, I had noticed that the likes of you, yrrah, mike manabe and many many others who post up fantastic groups, manage such groups with ANY of their guns. Thus proving that for the most part, the guns are not “special”, tht would be far too coincidental for all of you guys posting great groups to get the best and we all get an average model.

    its always the same faces posting up the good groups and I think it’s fair to say there’s one main reason behind that… You are great shooters, and any quality gun these days should be capable of what gets posted with the right technique behind it. 

    Now I just need to practice that technique! – the “how do you hit the bullseye” thread is a good place to start too. It would be great to see some more of the regular faces post in that thread. 

    ETA – I’m sure the little tweaks to pellet speed, lube/no lube etc… And other bits and bobs that can be done to help squeeze the best out of a gun also help but without a fundamentally good gun to start with all that tweaking would be worth squat. 

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    james.dean
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks a lot for your comments guys =)
    I’m not new to the airgun world, still I’m not as experienced as you Ted for example, I don’t have the possibility to try as many rifles as you do and that’s why I thank all you so much for sharing your opinion on this subject =]
    As some said, and as I planned, I’ll wait for the wildcat reviews, but, waiting for them, I just wanted to be reassured about this particular point. I have a .22 FAC s510 and I’m making 1.5 inches groups or even tighter at 110 yards so… I just don’t wanna be disappointed with my next purchase ^^

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    Underwood
    Participant
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    Ted,
    When you were indicating your the most accurate air rifles you didn’t mention the Edgun Matador. Do you still have the Matador? I suppose your Bobcat or Royale is more accurate?

    I personally own .25 Matador R3M Long and I was expecting it to be more accurate… What is your opinion? As I was checking your videos I realized that you’ve never really tested the Matador. It was only a few comments about modifications of R3M and differences between previous version. Do you plan to do more complex review? Matador is like your flagship :)

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    keysersoze
    Blocked
    Blocked

    Underwood, many people besides yourself have not gotten the R3M to perform as well in 25 cal. I can tell you I have vast experience with this gun.   I do not mean any offense in my next statement, the R3M in 25 is hard to shoot. It takes a lot of time in the saddle.   If you have checked these following items then it is the Indian not the arrow. 
    1. Shot string with ES less than 6 fps
    2. Bubble level on the rail to prevent canting
    3. Shot string produces 1 joule of energy for every 8 cubic centimeters of air used 
    4. Use JSB Kings with the 6.35 head size

    if if you have a problem in number one or three of that list then your HST and regulator are not working in harmony.  I had a R3M .22 first and the . 25 followed  shortly after. I felt like a total stud with the .22. The .25 took me almost a year to learn to shoot.  The gun needs just the right hand pressure and face pressure and anything less wil make your groups jump.   Check the gun out rule out technical issues then you’ll know for sure. 
     

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    Underwood
    Participant
    Member

    Thank you keysersoze :) Fully agreed that this beast is hard to handle.

    My Matador shoots with 928 fps (283 m/s) and the spread between shot is about 3-6 fps maximum. Its rather stable. 

    I don’t have bubble level – I will buy some and try it out. 

    Do you know a simple way to check no. 3 on your list? Or I should count my shots and observe air consumption on Matadors pressure gauge? I think it may be too inacurrate for such test.

    I use ONLY JSB Kings, as Ed recommends in his videos.

     

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    keysersoze
    Blocked
    Blocked

    Underwood you’re in luck here is a program.  You need a shot string from 205-210 bar down to where it falls off the regulator.  Yes use the manometer on the EDgun.  Then use the calculator.  Once you have completed this test you will receive a diploma as an official airgun nerd

    http://www.calc.sikes.us/1/index.php

    PS get a bubble level that goes onto the rail not the scope, place it on your non-shooting eye side so you can peek at it.  

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