Slugs, Modern PCPs and Caliber Selection for long range shooting…

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Vana2

Vana2

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May 11, 2015
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Ontario, Canada
I am interested in getting into long range pesting with a “slug-gun” and I would appreciate some advice on which caliber to select. I am leaning towards .22 caliber but the .25 is still a contender.



By “long range” I mean beyond comfortable pellet-gun ranges so I am talking 75 to 125 yards… maybe to 150 yards and the pests would be pigeons, grackles and starlings.



Of the three “medium bore” calibers, .22; .25; and .30; I am eliminating the .30 caliber because it is way more power than I need and it’s too expensive (cost of pellets/slugs and air utilization).



I’ve done a lot of research and best as I can figure the .22 would suit my needs…



Relative to the .25, the .22 caliber has a better BC with a higher velocity/flatter trajectory; the effective range & energy suit my current requirements and it has a higher shot count per fill.



Initially I thought that the .22 pellets were less expensive than those for the .25 but if you compare pellets of equal weights (e.g. .22 JSB RD Monsters and .25 JSB Kings) the costs are similar. From what I am seeing in the videos and posts, people shooting at long range tend to favor heavier pellets/slugs. For plinking and closer range shooting the less expensive .22 pellets would get favorable points.



Relative to the .22, the .25 caliber has a generous margin of power, a longer effective range and a because of its larger size, will transfer more energy to the target. Velocity is lower and trajectory is higher but both are reasonable and not at all bad.



Sounds like I am trying to talk myself into going with the larger caliber… If I stray away from the prime purpose of long range pigeon pesting and consider larger pests like groundhogs, raccoons and porcupines and maybe throw some squirrel and rabbit hunting in then the .25 looks even more attractive. Truth be said, I don’t shoot many large pests; I already have a .25 FX Royale and if need be I can resort to a powder burner.



The flip side is that the newer .22 caliber PCPs are putting out fpe similar to that of my old .25 so I am wondering if they are practical (with a suitable pellet) for raccoon-sized pests. For small game, .22 plenty. See how I twisted that back to the original plan?



So, the good news is that a shipment of guns is (finally) due to be delivered to my local supplier; the bad news is that I still need to choose a caliber.



It helps me to write things down, thanks for listening! I would really appreciate any thoughts or suggestions.



Cheers

Hank
 
I am interested in getting into long range pesting with a “slug-gun” and I would appreciate some advice on which caliber to select. I am leaning towards .22 caliber but the .25 is still a contender.



By “long range” I mean beyond comfortable pellet-gun ranges so I am talking 75 to 125 yards… maybe to 150 yards and the pests would be pigeons, grackles and starlings.

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If you're going to stick with those pests you don't need slugs. Even at 75-125 yards you can kill then quite dead with pellets. Even 20fpe at muzzle, will kill critters up to rabbit and pdog size just fine out that far. 

The industry has done a wonderful job of convincing us all that we need slugs and a slug gun if we want to shoot long range. Just isn't true unless you're going for big critters, you mention groundhogs later in your post and that's where you might start thinking about slugs or firearms, or coyote size critters. 

Anyway, I got into airguns for the quiet, the economy, and the lower power. I can shoot so much more now than when I was a powder burner only guy, both in volume and location. Really, anybody shooting slugs at slug speeds needs to be just as careful of things downrange as they would be if shooting .22long rifle firearms. For me, it makes more sense to just shoot my .22 Marlin if I want to shoot at something that needs a slug to kill it. 
 
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What I was trying to get at, is that for me, the magic of airguns is being able to do more with less power, almost bowhunting mentality. 

By the time you're cranking slugs you're burning through so much air and putting out so much fpe, that firearms are just the more common sense way to get there.
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More common sense way to get there? Yeah, with 20x the noise! 

If you want to shoot slugs, go right ahead and try it. You will be amazed at the accuracy difference, especially with higher wind speeds. I feel the trade off in shot count for higher BC is worth it. 

Another thing to keep in mind is you don't have to crank things up to get good results. When I had my first Impact, I shot 22cal 30 grain slugs at 860fps and was sub moa at 150 yards. 
 
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CCI Quiets from a long barrel .22 bolt action are mighty quiet. They're advertised as 45fpe muzzle, 36fpe @100 yards, and 68decibels "at shooters ear." They're dang quiet and quiet accurate from my Marlin bolt action. No listed BC for that particular round but should be mighty high for that much retained energy, I'd guess better than a slug. 

Just looked up and found a chart showing .22 long rifle BCs. The subsonic stuff listed looks to be about 0.110. The full-power (loud) rounds look to be in the .140 area. 

Went to NSA website and looked at a couple of the listed BCs for the. 22 and .25 offerings. Best BC I could find was a pretty heavy .25 @ .120. Most of the rest are in the 0.09 area. 

So, the weakest of firearm rounds (lowly .22 rimfire) has better BCs than the normal weights of slugs in (arguably) the most common airgun calibers. And that's the big argument I always hear in the AG industry, that's slugs have such better BCs. Yes, better than pellets, but not better than firearms, which was the stance I initially took. Firearms are a more common sense way of getting good BCs and retained energy downrange than slugs from an airgun. 
 
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If you want to shoot slugs, go right ahead and try it. You will be amazed at the accuracy difference, especially with higher wind speeds. I feel the trade off in shot count for higher BC is worth it.
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I did try some slugs, a few weeks ago (hey all the cool kids are doing it right). Thoroughly unimpressed with results from my Veteran. One inch groups at 30 and four inch groups @ 55 yards. Sent some to a buddy to try outta his RAW that's variable of more power, same results. I understand the barrels gotta match and etc etc and these two barrels just didn't agree. 
 
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What I was trying to get at, is that for me, the magic of airguns is being able to do more with less power, almost bowhunting mentality. 

By the time you're cranking slugs you're burning through so much air and putting out so much fpe, that firearms are just the more common sense way to get there.
Click to expand...

Wow, do I have to use “common sense” now? 
Wont be much happening here. LOL
 
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Why long range? Is there any particular reason why you can’t shoot them at closer ranges? I have problem with shooting at birds in lofted positions, not just because I don’t like the idea of taking pot shots in the hope a slug hits a vital area, more importantly, safety, where does the slug (weighing 30grn @ 1000fps) land on a miss or pass through, a mile away, mile and a half? Not only that, the noise a hollow point slug makes when it does connect, is loud enough to scare everything with a 1/2mile radius!

I suggest you hone your hunting skills, , I have never found a scenario where it is impossible to get to within more realistic distances,.I have shot 10’s of thousands of pigeons with my sub12fpe airguns, so while power may have certain advantages it is not always necessary.

I used to watch Teds and Matt’s hunting videos, I found them both interesting and informative. Not anymore, lob enough slugs down range and you will eventually hit something, then edit to footage to show the kills. IMO that’s not hunting or effective pest control, it’s not even good marksmanship!

For what it’s worth, I have an impact, it is a fine gun so I am not a Fx hater, I just hate FX’s marketing BS.


Bb




 
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CCI Quiets from a long barrel .22 bolt action are mighty quiet. They're advertised as 45fpe muzzle, 36fpe @100 yards, and 68decibels "at shooters ear." They're dang quiet and quiet accurate from my Marlin bolt action. No listed BC for that particular round but should be mighty high for that much retained energy, I'd guess better than a slug. 

Just looked up and found a chart showing .22 long rifle BCs. The subsonic stuff listed looks to be about 0.110. The full-power (loud) rounds look to be in the .140 area. 

Went to NSA website and looked at a couple of the listed BCs for the. 22 and .25 offerings. Best BC I could find was a pretty heavy .25 @ .120. Most of the rest are in the 0.09 area. 

So, the weakest of firearm rounds (lowly .22 rimfire) has better BCs than the normal weights of slugs in (arguably) the most common airgun calibers. And that's the big argument I always hear in the AG industry, that's slugs have such better BCs. Yes, better than pellets, but not better than firearms, which was the stance I initially took. Firearms are a more common sense way of getting good BCs and retained energy downrange than slugs from an airgun.
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This is an "airgun " website. So promoting airguns is common sense.
 
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I love air gun shooting and have two Crowns setup for day night and have a slug barrel. But there is a point where the M2 and HMR at 2100 and 2500 fps do the job. Of course one must take into consideration background as they carry much further than the airgun. I have set in one place with a portable shooting bench and shot 200 -300 ground squirrels and four rock chucks. Now my shooting conditions may be different than others but this WORKS for me from 0-300 yards or maybe a little further.
 
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My RW 22 shoots right with any 25 or 30 I've shot so far and I shoot it MUCH more.... the air refilling is a big one. Like you mentioned , pellet cost is similar to Kings but King Heavies and all 30s are much more. Matters to me. I'm absolutely with Franklink and Bucketboy on this one though. Been testing slugs and they are interesting and capable for sure, but if I feel the NEED for slugs, I'm definitely breaking out the rimfire. Even with a rimfire, would that really be ethical hunting over 100 yds? I've been around plenty of guys that would "throw one out there and see" in mentality. No my style and don't care for it.

I shoot with Steve123 and some cool crusty old farts frequently on Wednesdays at one of the greatest places around where we have stuff from 7 yds to 1100 yds to plink at and can shoot ANYTHING there that any of us own. (Not sure about a 20 mm or similar but there have been 50s brought out) Steve123 has related a couple stories of his 30 EVOL there at 220 and 289. My 22 is still stable and hangin with it at 289 but my 25 w Heavies falls apart between 220 and 289 somewhere. I just really enjoy shooting the 22 more, I guess. One of the great things in our gatherings is the comments EVERY time how nice it is to be able to chat while shooting without the ear muffs.... even the rimfires are too loud under the covered line.

TOUGH predicament you're in Hank...lol. I think you'll find joy and utility in whatever you choose .

Bob
 
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At this point I'm more leaning with Franklink's opinion.

Why?? because I also ordered some slugs to see how they would shoot and as I was afraid of the accuracy was poor. It's not the slugs fault because they are super consistent and as well made as it gets, nor the quality of the rifle either because it's among the best money can buy as well as even having a slightly faster twist rate. What it is is taking the chance of not winning the "slug/barrel lottery". In other words slugs not made ideal for a specific barrel, that barrels exact bore size, land and groove configuration, and the proper twist rate. 

Take a 22rf rifle for example, most of them will shoot well with match ammo, even the less expensive rifles on occasion. Largely the reasons why are that those barrels dimensions are ideal for this cartridge and a small range of bullet weights. BTW, on Sunday I put 9 rounds into 1.5" vertical at 208 yards with my Anschutz 22rf, and that was under a tight time limit during a match.

Well if I could be assured of the accuracy of x PCP rifle, shooting y slug, like with a 5 shot test target for example, before purchase, my opinion might be swayed. Well this is what I see happening more and more in the near future. 

Vana2, buy whatever you like but it might or might not shoot slugs well. At least you can shoot pellets. I'd just shoot the 25 cal you already have but it is fun getting another rifle as long as it is reliable and accurate! Just think how nice a scope you can put on your 25, or how many pellets you can buy, or maybe even getting into a compressor, for the cost of another rifle.






 
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My RW 22 shoots right with any 25 or 30 I've shot so far and I shoot it MUCH more.... the air refilling is a big one. Like you mentioned , pellet cost is similar to Kings but King Heavies and all 30s are much more. Matters to me. I'm absolutely with Franklink and Bucketboy on this one though. Been testing slugs and they are interesting and capable for sure, but if I feel the NEED for slugs, I'm definitely breaking out the rimfire. Even with a rimfire, would that really be ethical hunting over 100 yds? I've been around plenty of guys that would "throw one out there and see" in mentality. No my style and don't care for it.

I shoot with Steve123 and some cool crusty old farts frequently on Wednesdays at one of the greatest places around where we have stuff from 7 yds to 1100 yds to plink at and can shoot ANYTHING there that any of us own. (Not sure about a 20 mm or similar but there have been 50s brought out) Steve123 has related a couple stories of his 30 EVOL there at 220 and 289. My 22 is still stable and hangin with it at 289 but my 25 w Heavies falls apart between 220 and 289 somewhere. I just really enjoy shooting the 22 more, I guess. One of the great things in our gatherings is the comments EVERY time how nice it is to be able to chat while shooting without the ear muffs.... even the rimfires are too loud under the covered line.

TOUGH predicament you're in Hank...lol. I think you'll find joy and utility in whatever you choose .

Bob
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Hey Bobby, We've had so much fun out at John's place haven't we?! 

I fondly remember hitting the 3" 100 yard steel with my 6ftlb Steyr LBG1 biathlon trainer over and over until the wind changed.

Last Wednesday I brought out the plate racks for the semiauto Co2 BB pistols. We shot our Tangfolio Gold Custom's for hours and as usual laughed at how fun that was.

Well you remember hitting that steel buffalo at a mile with my 6.5 Saum. Watching the kids shoot Ed's gatling gun. The civil war cannon, and list goes on.


 
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Thanks Guys! I don't think I could go terribly wrong with either caliber but your input is really helping me with my perspective in this area of airgunning that is new to me. Hopefully, this thread will be of interest to others who have been wondering what all the slugs and long range hoop-la is about. 

Simple. Buy an impact and and extra barrel kit. 

The difference between a 22 and a 25 is .026 not all that much. Doubt the pigeon will know the difference
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A .22/700mm Impact is "the plan", An extra barrel kit would be nice and that may happen but it is out of budget right now.

If you're going to stick with those pests you don't need slugs. Even at 75-125 yards you can kill then quite dead with pellets. Even 20fpe at muzzle, will kill critters up to rabbit and pdog size just fine out that far. 

Anyway, I got into airguns for the quiet, the economy, and the lower power. I can shoot so much more now than when I was a powder burner only guy, both in volume and location. Really, anybody shooting slugs at slug speeds needs to be just as careful of things downrange as they would be if shooting .22long rifle firearms. For me, it makes more sense to just shoot my .22 Marlin if I want to shoot at something that needs a slug to kill it.
Click to expand...

What I was trying to get at, is that for me, the magic of airguns is being able to do more with less power, almost bowhunting mentality. 

By the time you're cranking slugs you're burning through so much air and putting out so much fpe, that firearms are just the more common sense way to get there.
Click to expand...


Agreed, pigeons don't need a lot of fpe to kill them but greater fpe means that, depending on pellet/slug weight selected, higher velocity and flatter trajectory is an option. Hear you on the magic of airguns - that is why I am here. When I first got into PCPs I compared the fpe to the "lowly rimfire" - that was a real kick in the perspective. Airguns are not powder burners and IMHO it is an exercise in frustration to try to make them so - like them as they are. Airgun hunting and archery, good comparison as both require precise shot placement, the last 5 years I deer hunted it was with homemade bows and arrows.

Why long range? Is there any particular reason why you can’t shoot them at closer ranges? I have problem with shooting at birds in lofted positions, not just because I don’t like the idea of taking pot shots in the hope a slug hits a vital area, more importantly, safety, where does the slug (weighing 30grn @ 1000fps) land on a miss or pass through, a mile away, mile and a half? Not only that, the noise a hollow point slug makes when it does connect, is loud enough to scare everything with a 1/2mile radius!

I suggest you hone your hunting skills, , I have never found a scenario where it is impossible to get to within more realistic distances,.I have shot 10’s of thousands of pigeons with my sub12fpe airguns, so while power may have certain advantages it is not always necessary.

I used to watch Teds and Matt’s hunting videos, I found them both interesting and informative. Not anymore, lob enough slugs down range and you will eventually hit something, then edit to footage to show the kills. IMO that’s not hunting or effective pest control, it’s not even good marksmanship!

For what it’s worth, I have an impact, it is a fine gun so I am not a Fx hater, I just hate FX’s marketing BS.


Bb
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Why long range? This is the real question, thanks for bring it up! The short part of the answer is that the local pigeons (the survivors that is) have become nervous and will flush wild at under 50-60 yards but will sit calm at 75-100 yards. 

The long part of the answer is that being a hunter/pester I strongly feel that the only good shot is one that hits right in the vitals; for what I shoot that means that the "hardware" (gun, optics, pellet/slug) and the "software" (me, the shooter) has to be able to consistently keep all the shots in a 1 inch kill zone. Haven't seen too many pellet guns that are capable of that much beyond 75 yards - hence the interest in a long range "slug-gun" setup. Besides that, long range shooting takes great skill and I am looking forward to that challenge.

Agree that hunting skill is as important as shooting skill - for years I (successfully) hunted deer with homemade self bows and most kills were made at 12 yards or less so I think I am ok in that area.

I like to watch the hunting videos and find myself appreciating the scenery as much as anything. Like you say, who knows what was edited out.

Though I do a lot of pesting on my permissions to help the farmers (part of my duties for earning hunting rights) I will not kill anything without a good reason. I help the I live on 10 acres in a rural area that I share with lots of critters; with the exception of porcupines, it's "live and let live" unless they become a nuisance at which point they are quickly invited in for (as?) dinner or turned into fly tying material.

For 99% of my shooting, 1" steel spinners are my favorite quarry - I make my own have them scattered all along my walking trails. For anybody who is interested, here is a link to a DYI that I wrote on how to make them: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/?s=diy+spinners&btnGo= 

Again, thanks for the comments! Cheers!

Hank


 
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Thanks for the additional comments guys, I started a reply and got called away from the computer so I didn't see the new comments until I posted. Time is short so I will just quickly reply.

A lot of good points, comments and cautions made - great stuff!!!

I love anything that shoots projectiles (I am back into making slingshots again) and slugs are no exception. I keep on referring to a "slug-gun" because I see the as being "different" from "typical" - just the way my 10 meter guns are different/specialized. 

Yeah, we are on the bleeding-edge of slug technology and there is a lot that still has to worked out - guess that is par of what has captured my interest.

Great bunch of people here! Thanks for the support! Good shooting!

Hank


 
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