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Slugs in ft

Forums Field Target Field Target Talk Slugs in ft

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    Solo1
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    Just curious if many shoot .177 slugs in field target.  I assume it ok so long as under 20fpe? 

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    Motorhead
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    At such a low power and inside the range where a slugs ballistics find advantage over a pellet ….. WHY

    I tried playing with 10.5 NSA's in .177 and some testers in .20 cal seeing if i could find a combo that met or exceeded what I already had in pellet accuracy ….. I'm staying with pellets for FT duty.

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    Solo1
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    Motorhead

    At such a low power and inside the range where a slugs ballistics find advantage over a pellet ….. WHY

    I tried playing with 10.5 NSA's in .177 and some testers in .20 cal seeing if i could find a combo that met or exceeded what I already had in pellet accuracy ….. I'm staying with pellets for FT duty.

    Well at 55 yds a 12.5 gr nsa shot @800 fps has about 1/2 the wind drift of a 10.3 jsb shot @920 fps.  Seems like a good reason to me!? Also I’m finding my wolverine really likes them except they are using a bit more air than i wish they would. 

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    Motorhead
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    Solo1

    Motorhead

    At such a low power and inside the range where a slugs ballistics find advantage over a pellet ….. WHY

    I tried playing with 10.5 NSA's in .177 and some testers in .20 cal seeing if i could find a combo that met or exceeded what I already had in pellet accuracy ….. I'm staying with pellets for FT duty.

    Well at 55 yds a 12.5 gr nsa shot @800 fps has about 1/2 the wind drift of a 10.3 jsb shot @920 fps.  Seems like a good reason to me!? Also I’m finding my wolverine really likes them except they are using a bit more air than i wish they would. 

    O' i agree completely and the WHY I tried ….. Consistent accuracy wins the day and the slugs fell short in this task !

    Having shot FT now for enough years, tried as much outside the box thinking and tweaking as one can muster …. switched to .20 cal @ 6 years ago and never looked back !!

    You only need ask yourself one question   ….. In ideal conditions with no wind. IS THE SLUG equal too or more accurate ?

    If it is Not … your fooling yourself into thinking it will make up for some other deficit in your FT game.

     

    IMO

    Scott S

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Motorhead.
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    Solo1
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    Well my pic is [email protected] with 12.5 g nsa on a slightly breeze day.  I’ve been shooting 5 shot groups with pellets and slugs on the same day so the conditions were as close to the same as possible and on that 10 meter target which is an 1.5 black i can consistently do better with the slugs shooting off stix.  So thats why i asked to see if anyone else had simular results. 
       About the 20 I assume that your shooting that for basically the same reason?  I didn’t know you could shoot 20 in ft.  

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    Solo1
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    Well just punched some numbers in strelok and see that you’re not shooting the 20 to gain in the wind so why?

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    Motorhead
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    Solo1

    Well my pic is [email protected] with 12.5 g nsa on a slightly breeze day.  I’ve been shooting 5 shot groups with pellets and slugs on the same day so the conditions were as close to the same as possible and on that 10 meter target which is an 1.5 black i can consistently do better with the slugs shooting off stix.  So thats why i asked to see if anyone else had simular results. 
       About the 20 I assume that your shooting that for basically the same reason?  I didn’t know you could shoot 20 in ft.  

    Solo1

    Well just punched some numbers in strelok and see that you’re not shooting the 20 to gain in the wind so why?

    Only time I use the ballistics programs is to get my D.O.P.E figured out and aligned.    As to the .20 cal shooting the JSB 13.7 @ 800 fps.

    WHY …. because it is far more accurate and does not move in the wind like a 10.3 in .177 caliber or even as much as 13.4 in .177 

    I've adopted NOT what data says will happen but ACTUAL shooting has proven true !!

    In the last 5 years sense going .20 caliber ….. 6 State / GP championship wins.  Hunter class Nationals title win while also being the first "Hunter" shooter in AAFTA history to set a Nationals high score. Also a Gran Prix national title in Hunter PCP. 

     This not said as a brag, sure i'm proud of this, but my point being real world accuracy and what you can do with it always trumps a fist full of someones else's data stating something contrary.  It has taken a few years, but this feat with a .20 cal did indeed open a lot of eyes that .20 is not dead !! Or it shoots just meager being no replacement for .177 or a .22

     

    Damn straight !!  think outside the box !!  If you can get slugs to shoot how you want, maintain consistent accuracy day in and day out, get good wind dope that works while being on YOUR game.  Go For It absolutely ! setting a new bar in what used to improve your FT game !

    None of us get rich playing with air guns, so have fun with it and MOST IMPORTANT ….. use what works best for YOU.

     

    Scott S

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    Solo1
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    Only time I use the ballistics programs is to get my D.O.P.E figured out and aligned.    As to the .20 cal shooting the JSB 13.7 @ 800 fps.

    WHY …. because it is far more accurate and does not move in the wind like a 10.3 in .177 caliber or even as much as 13.4 in .177 

    I've adopted NOT what data says will happen but ACTUAL shooting has proven true !!

    In the last 5 years sense going .20 caliber ….. 6 State / GP championship wins.  Hunter class Nationals title win while also being the first "Hunter" shooter in AAFTA history to set a Nationals high score. Also a Gran Prix national title in Hunter PCP. 

     This not said as a brag, sure i'm proud of this, but my point being real world accuracy and what you can do with it always trumps a fist full of someones else's data stating something contrary.  It has taken a few years, but this feat with a .20 cal did indeed open a lot of eyes that .20 is not dead !! Or it shoots just meager being no replacement for .177 or a .22

     

    Damn straight !!  think outside the box !!  If you can get slugs to shoot how you want, maintain consistent accuracy day in and day out, get good wind dope that works while being on YOUR game.  Go For It absolutely ! setting a new bar in what used to improve your FT game !

    None of us get rich playing with air guns, so have fun with it and MOST IMPORTANT ….. use what works best for you

     

    Scott S

    Was unaware of your accomplishments. Congrats ! And yes i will keep slinging lead down range as long as i can and will continue to look for an edge!  Lol

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    Jayson
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    Wisdom! If we all had more? The truth of it is, most of it comes from failure/ learning the hard way. Great discussion boys. It got my squeaky wheels turning👍🏻

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    scotton
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    I wonder what the slugs are doing at 100+ yards. Most FT courses I shoot at are in suburban or semi-rural areas, so I could see a match director having a question about the terminal ballistics of a slug, even though it's only going 800 fps. If I was the match director, I guess I would ask you "how far will the slug travel if you miss the faceplate of a target sitting up in a tree?". I don't know the answer to this question, but I would recommend that you know the answer if you want to shoot slugs (whether at field target or anything else).

    The official FT rules don't have the word "Slug" in the rulebook. However, the very first rule under equipment says "Safe airguns of any power plant, shooting a single pellet". On the other hand, two sentences above that sentence it says "In any matters arising and not covered by these rules the Match Director's decision will be final".

    So if you feel that you can safely shoot slugs at a given location, I would probably check with the match director before showing up just to make sure. Some people say "it's better to ask for forgiveness than permission", but I think that the people that say that are sociopaths.

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    Solo1
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    Yes i will have to ask if its ok at each shoot as i do know how much more energy they carry.. i shoot near my home and there was a steel sign on a post about 1 foot square and was surprised how easy it was to hit @ 120 yds.  Haven’t shot paper at that range yet but plan to

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    Garrettkq
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    I think we should add a “slug fee” for early replacement of chewed up targets and paddles.  LOL 

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    Scotchmo
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    Garrettkq

    I think we should add a “slug fee” for early replacement of chewed up targets and paddles.  LOL 

    Chewed up targets and paddles? If the target can handle 20fpe, the shape of the projectile does not matter. Hardness will matter. Shape won't.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Scotchmo.
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    JimD
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    I was playing with Hornadys ballistic program a couple days ago with pellets and slugs (25 caliber for my Avenger, not for FT).  But I was surprised that the drop was not much different.  Wind drift was (roughly half).  I need to try it in a different calculator because I am not sure that is right.  But if the drop really is not strongly a function of ballistic coefficient then the slugs will not carry farther.  If drop varies, as I think it does, the calculator would tell you how much further it will carry with an assumed angle shot. 

    Of course if you hit the target you won't have to worry about how far it carries.  

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    chasdicapua
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    I was just reading some of the new posts on this thread and saw that Scott posted that, in his expereince, the 13gr .20 pellets don't move as much in the wind as the 13.34gr .177 pellets do. Interesting. I wish I could try that out myself without having to buy a .20 rifle.  I currently shoot open class with the 13.34 gr monsters. Piqued my interest. 

    Chas

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    JimD
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    It isn't real life but you can plug the bc and muzzle velocity into a ballistic program like American Airguns Trajectory Calculator and it will give you wind drift for an assumed wind speed.  I would think as a comparison tool it would give you a pretty good idea. But for it to give you less wind drift the 20 caliber pellets would have to have a better ballistic coefficient.  

    I also played some more with Hornadys ballistic program and a slug with a significantly higher ballistic coefficient might travel further.  I don't know how well it works for this but if I assume a pellet with a .022 coefficient versus a slug at .1 I get 300 yards versus 1000 yards if both are fired at a 45 degree angle (nearly the optimum to maximize flight).  But the other thing I noticed is the velocity and fpe are really low near the end of the flight.  I assumed a 900 fps muzzle velocity for both.  That pellet coefficient is for a 14.3 gr 22 pellet and the slug is for a 25 caliber – so apples versus oranges.  But with more realistic inputs I think the slug will still go significantly further.  A pellet with a higher ballistic coefficient will too but the difference in bc is probably significantly less.

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    JimD
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    I looked at the hard air magazine ballistic coefficients of 177 pellets versus slugs and there isn't really that much difference.  The best slug was .043 and the best pellet was .029.  But there was no other slug close to that.  There were several slugs around .014 which many pellets were measured at or above.  Maybe that data doesn't represent current slugs or something.  But if it does, there isn't really much difference.  Not when different 177 pellets vary by more than 2 to 1.  

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    Solo1
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    According to strelok a177 slug 12.5 gr shot at 839 fps zeroed at 40 drops 1.5” at 55 yds and in a 5 mph breeze 90 to shot will move 1” at 55 yds. This is a 19.5 fpe. @ 100 13.4 drop and 3 drift

    A jsb 10.3 gr @ 940 fps 20 fpe drops [email protected] and drifts 2.3.  Jsb @ 100 14.3 drop 7.3 drift
    So the slug going the same fpe doesnt travel any farther than the pellet but is less affected by wind drift

    • This reply was modified 1 day ago by Solo1.
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