Slugs for AAFTA matches?

Looking at the issue from a different angle, does the target feel pellet energy or pellet momentum. Any engineer/physicists care to weight in?



Knobs

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Knobs, I be an engineer! To answer your question, the target will feel momentum as the pellet slows to a stop and transfers its energy to said target. Momentum (p) = mass x velocity. Either way you look at your question momentum or kinetic energy (KE) = 1/2 x mass x velocity^2, it’s the down range velocity that makes the difference in ability to knock down a target or not, and slugs with better BC, have more of that! They tend to slow down less than pellets. 


Jeff

Thanks Jeff.

I have a 45 year old engineering degree I never used. When I tried to follow the articles on the subject, my head kept hitting my keyboard.

John gave me some good perspective in an earlier reply to this post.

Not that this change anything for me. Just curious.

Merry Christmas



Knobs

Well for me this is par for the course I spend hundreds of dollars on a barrel slugs for testing and slugs to last the year in 177 only to find I should have spent my money on a 20 barrel and 13.7 gr jab’s but then they probably would have banned them as having too high a bc and carrying too much energy! Wonder if I could shoot a 22 pellet that they could ban too. Well what the hell let’s make it hand pump pellet rifles and limit it to 5 pumps so no one gets hurt. 

Yep I’m goin 22 21 gr H&M’s n at 650 fps Carrie’s at 55 yds 1.1 less fpe than a 13.4 jsb ko slug bet if I start shooting them they will ban them too! Carries .1 more fpe at 10 yds too bound to hurt someone!

Well now that I’ve calmed down I really can’t understand the powers that be’s decision. This is after all hunter class we’re talking about and I don’t think in this day and age many are shooting 8 or 10 grain round nose pellets for hunting. My self I have a 22 maverick shooting 23 gr nsa to almost 1000 fps and I can certainly understand why that would be really bad for field target I don’t get you saying it’s ok to shoot 20 cal for a slight bc advantage or for that matter 22 with nearly the same fpe as 177 slugs but slugs no way, it just doesn’t make sense. If you wish to keep the original spirt alive make everyone shoot 12 fpe that’s what it was originally. But in the day of American ft and using high power I think all you are going to do is kill this sport as soon as the old farts go.

I'll add that if you can't clean, or nearly clean the forced position lanes, and your goal is to win, projectile type doesn't matter. 

As to old guys aging out, I don't see it as necessarily detrimental. No offense meant.

John

I'll add that if you can't clean, or nearly clean the forced position lanes, and your goal is to win, projectile type doesn't matter. 

As to old guys aging out, I don't see it as necessarily detrimental. No offense meant.

John

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None taken as you are correct The top shooters are quite good. I’m one the old farts that won’t be around a lot longer too but what are we leaving the young guys or is it we don’t care?

@solo1 - I'm thinking along the same lines as you are, and as many are. Having only been in the AAFTA game for a little over a year, the decision makes zero sense, from a physics or ballistic point of view, or any other view for that matter. However, the decision has been made, albeit with little or no research or common sense, but its in the books. I've also noticed watching the matches that winning seems to always boil down to the forced position lanes. So we have 90% of the shots taken but at the highest levels they mean little, and the 10% mean everything? It the objective who is the best SHOOTER, or who is the best OFF HAND Shooter? When I play golf there isn't one hole on each 9 that I HAVE to hit with a specific club or from a specific position, I can hit whatever I want on every hole...Things that make you go hmmm...

So that being said, the Extreme FT game is growing quickly in the USA for that very reason of too many rules in AAFTA, plus the shooters get to use guns that they can also use for hunting. Up to 100FPE, pellets or slugs, 25 to 100 yards, bucket and sticks position, there you are. Good to go. No specialized rifles or scopes, just shoot what you have. Having talked to a few that are VERY good in the AAFTA game, given the choice, they would shoot EFT rather than FT. I'm in the same camp. We already have EFT in Arizona, Texas, Oregon and Utah, and its growing quickly enough that we plan to have a GP series is 2022.

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I love the efforts being put on by those trying to expand eft. Would love to try it myself but living in pa the events are a bit far at the current time for me ( old fart) but I also see ft as a wonderful tool for younger guys to start. Guys starting out usually don’t have 100 fpe or even probably 50 fpe rifles, can’t afford a years worth of 30 cal pellets or slugs, an air tank and all the extras that is required by high power. You started this thread with the intent (I believe) to bring awareness to those that make rules which is also my intention and because I’m an Aries and must always push the boundary’s of what can be done I also just love to shoot and compete. I’m getting a bit off here. I think as you do that there is no reason not to push the boundary’s with 177 anyway to try to improve the SPORT and to be a beginning or cheaper version of eft. To me sometimes you just have to get the right point across to the powers that be

Centercut,

I’ll have to disagree with you about something here. Blanket statements such as “People are going to EFT because of all the rules”, I think you’re embellishing a bit there. AAFTA has been around for a while, and so has the WFTF. They’re one the most successful airgun sporting organizations on the planet for a reason. Rules come about because of issues arising and are tackled to create fairness and standards. Even if a rule seems ridiculous on surface value, there has been some thought put behind it. I’m sure if something isn’t perfect, it will be addressed again. I’m also sure EFT will evolve with rules as well in time.
I'm sorry that you are upset about a rule change, ok, don’t let something that small bug you so bad, adapt, and move on.
Oh also, btw, prone was never outlawed. Shooters just chose not to shoot it. You still can if you want. 
Positionals. It’s also part of the sport. Not everyone loves that challenge either. Complaining about that too is like complaining about wind. It’s there. Learn how to adapt and get good at it.

Why EFT when NRL22 looks like a natural fit for big bore afficionados? You've even got rimfire guys shooting with you. Seems like a better fit. Just curious as I'm considering picking up NRL22 shooting. 

K

Why EFT when NRL22 looks like a natural fit for big bore afficionados? You've even got rimfire guys shooting with you. Seems like a better fit. Just curious as I'm considering picking up NRL22 shooting. 

K

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I think the draw for field target over nrl is you get to knock down a target without a perfect hit and some people prefer that to shooting paper like when they practice. Ft is harder than it looks too i shot with a fellow for a bit who I frequently heard him say I don’t miss as many pigeons at the farm as I do these targets. There is also the power thing. Americans always want more power in their tools and new people coming into the sport have easier access to that more than ever before. Check shooter1721 vid of the avenger at 150 yds with slugs and you see what I mean. Ft in Europe was is and always will be 12 fpe but here things are different which is why some of us think the new slug rule is incorrect 

Once again Cenercut, you over simplify with your blanket statement " there IS NOT any thought or logic that was put into the slug decision". That is simply an untrue statement, that Tyler and I tried to clarify for you, but it is apparent that you still want to complain about it anyway.

Garrett, I completely agree with your post just above. I will go so far as to make a statement that in 5 years, EFT will have almost as many rules as AAFTA does, and they will be added for the reasons that you stated.

Jeff Cloud

ASC Match Director

AAFTA BOG Member

I see your points Garrett. My point was that EFT is becoming popular because it’s simple to get into. I didn’t intend to attack AAFTA. I shoot regular FT also. My biggest point in this whole post series is that there IS NOT any thought or logic that was put into the slug decision. I shot them in a few events this year and no one seemed to care. Maybe I did embellish a bit

What makes you think I’m upset? It’s not worth my time and energy. I was just pointing out the flaws in the new rule and quite a few shooters much better than me agree The guy that won your tournament in March agrees.. But upset? Not even close…

As far as prone we both know as soon as they outlawed attached bipods and made the rule that the gun can’t have one part of the body touching it and the ground prone was dead. So TECHNICALLY they didn’t outlaw prone but EFFECTIVELY they did. Can I shoot with the old rules for prone at your event in March? Let me know?

I’m pretty sure my opinion regarding positionals is allowed on AGN. It’s my opinion. You need to deal with that. I personally don’t see the point and I said so. So there you go. Your opinion is different than mine, and that’s ok. We good?

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EFT and FT are exactly just the same “to get in to”. There is no difference. For any discipline, you can “just use” a rig to participate, however you build one well if you are serious.

LOL the time and energy you put in to your complaints clearly reflect how upset you are. But that’s ok. Again you stated that there’s no thought or logic behind it, however there was thought and logic and it was explained pretty clearly. Again, it’s not something that everybody has to agree with, and that’s OK too. Those are the rules going forward, and the winners will pull ahead, adapt and be successful and be at the top of their game. Some will dwell in the misery of complaints. 


Regarding prone, you are more than welcome to shoot according to the old rules at our GP. However, the class that will fit your needs for that will be the Unlimited unsanctioned class we offer. Even further, you are still welcome to shoot prone at our match in sanctioned Hunter class, provided you adhere to the current AAFTA rules. 


Positionals are a part of the game. FT is a multifaceted sports event. There are elements of every game that not everybody will like. For example some people hate small kill zones at close distance, some people hate positional shots, some hate sitting on an actual bum bag and only want to sit on buckets, some people will hate 55 yard targets, some people will hate a non-attached bipod, some hate others with fancy equipment, some hate actually using a scope to range find… I can go on forever, I’ve heard it all… Lol.


Anyone is certainly welcome to any opinion here on AGN, however the great part of any forum is you will hear the opinions of others in response.


May the winds always be in your favor, and enjoy every moment.

The NRL22 stuff I've seen is a lot like FT. They shoot at metal plates and record a hit or a miss. There may be paper target shooters in the sport also, but I don't know of it.

I think the challenge of NRL22 over FT is the required firing time to get off ten or 15 shots. There's no question in my mind that it's a very dynamic shooting sport. 

What I like about WFTF is that I have to be constantly on my toes to make the shot. I'd never try to solve that by adding power.

They're different disciplines. Just like EFT appears to be it's own thing. I'm glad it's growing the shooting sports out west. I'm not sure how well it's going to do in the eastern hardwood forest where a lot of the FT course seem to work. JMO, but I think there's a reason why NRL22 has adapted to rifle ranges and that's likely going to be the "general" location of EFT out here. To me, that means I'd pick NRL22 over EFT. I get more variety, but that's just me.

I think there's plenty of room for both. I don't see the AAFTA restrictions on slugs hurting EFT or FT.



K

Centercut,

Not butt hurt or hurt feelings, just wanting to provide info that is contrary to your line of reasoning because I believe that some of that is embellished and rumor mongering. As Garrett mentioned, on forums you get to hear many opinions so these are mine and lately in contrast to yours.