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Slugs for AAFTA matches?

Forums Field Target Field Target Talk Slugs for AAFTA matches?

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    Franklink
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    United States
    Accuracy: +36
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    zx10wall
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    Accuracy: +73

    Nofilters

    Let us all buy a rimfire airgun.LOL

    20 FPE rimfire. Sounds logical…….

    Maybe a Thomas……..And a whole new competition that they can dominate at 👍🏼

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by zx10wall.
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    thomasair
    Manufacturer
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    United States
    Accuracy: +41

    zx10wall

    Nofilters

    Let us all buy a rimfire airgun.LOL

    20 FPE rimfire. Sounds logical…….

    Maybe a Thomas……..And a whole new competition that they can dominate at 👍🏼

    Bill Calfee once said that you can judge how good a competition gunsmith is… not by his number of supporters…but by his number of detractors. 

    Mike 

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    zx10wall
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    Accuracy: +73

    thomasair

    zx10wall

    Nofilters

    Let us all buy a rimfire airgun.LOL

    20 FPE rimfire. Sounds logical…….

    Maybe a Thomas……..And a whole new competition that they can dominate at 👍🏼👍🏼

    Bill Calfee once said that you can judge how good a competition gunsmith is… not by his number of supporters…but by his number of detractors. 

    Mike 

    Maybe ask around. I've never said anything but good about you. Can you say the same? That said, I don't think I'd ever use any current or past Thomas models. They are not well rounded enough for me and just too focused for one purpose. 

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by zx10wall.
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    Tpatner412
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    Accuracy: +15

    Centercut

    Oh so LAME, just lame…. No technical reason, just change and change can be painful for narrow minds.  Maybe we should go back to points and plugs in our cars also? Yup, let’s try and hold back progress as much as possible. That’ll only work until us old guys are replaced by the youngsters. It’s inevitable, but if it makes them feel better for a couple of years more power to them.

    Thanks for the update Jim. 

    A rulebook is no place for providing reasoning, that would just add noise. But I am happy to shed some light on the reason the decision was made.

    The board received a lot of feedback directly on this as well as reading through the opinions shared here and on other forums. At the end of the day, it comes down to a number of venues/clubs being concerned about what happens if a shooter misses a target completely with a slug or that slug ricochets off of the target when hit. A number of MD's stated that their venues (many of them gun clubs) would not allow slug use, that really forced the decision. If the rules allow the use of slugs, then they need to be allowed everywhere. Can't have folks practicing with one ammo type only to have to use something else for one or two matches a year at a specific venue.  

    Yes, there were also concerns about the "spirit of the game" and a few others that chimed in, but at the end of the day, specific venues not being able to allow slug use was the driving factor in the decision.  

     

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    Centercut
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    Accuracy: +181

    Gotcha. And I do understand the reasoning you presented. Makes sense. Of course physics being the science that it is, we all know the irrational fear is based on firearms and not soft lead pellets, which is what a slug shaped pellet is made of…

    Perhaps over the next year or two we could educate the misinformed gun clubs and MDs about what 20 FPE of soft lead does and doesn’t do. Hint: they react the same as pellets. I’m pretty sure you know that already…

    Thank you for explaining your rationale…. 

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    Scotchmo
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    Accuracy: +26

    Tpatner412

    A number of MD's stated that their venues (many of them gun clubs) would not allow slug use, that really forced the decision. If the rules allow the use of slugs, then they need to be allowed everywhere. …

    I know at our venue, some of the ranges don't allow jacketed bullets. I don't see a significant safety difference between 20fpe slug shaped lead and 20fpe diabolo shaped lead.

    I don't see any advantage in the currently available slugs for our purposes anyway (20fpe, 55yd).

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by Scotchmo.
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    zx10wall
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    The data on this could easily be pulled from a BC calculator. You’d find out that these small bore, soft lead slugs aren’t a danger. 

    Did anyone on the board actually do any meaningful research or was it just easier to rule as possibly unsafe? Oh never mind, doesn’t matter. It’s not a game changer and really not worth the grumble. Let’s play ball 😃

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by zx10wall.
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    Scotchmo
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    Accuracy: +26

    zx10wall

    The data on this could easily be pulled from a BC calculator. You’d find out that these small bore, soft lead slugs aren’t a danger. 

    Did anyone on the board actually do any meaningful research or was it just easier then as unsafe? Oh never mind, doesn’t matter. 

    A high BC slug does carry energy further, but at 20fpe, it's not a lot more energy or a lot further. If it's the probability of a ricochet that's concerning, than material hardness is more of a factor than shape. From a little research on what is allowed and the hazard:

    "Ammunition
    Pellets that are completely made of lead, lead alloy, zinc, zinc alloy, or similar all-metal material may be used. Airgun slugs may not be used."

    From Robert Beeman's "Airgun Projectiles":

    "…Lead projectiles have only a small fraction of the ricochet hazard of steel, zinc, or other hard projectiles…"

     

     

     

     

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    Centercut
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    Accuracy: +181

    Good points Derrick and Scott. From my research and testing, the .177 JSB KO 13.43 grain slugs have about the same BC as the .25 JSB King Heavy or the .22 RD Monster pellets.

    So in a choice of little or no research being done, I’ll choose “no” for $200 Alex. As far as ranges that don’t allow Airgun slug shaped pellets, Tyler must have been talking about Airgun only ranges since ranges that allow firearms would never be that ignorant as to not allow Airgun slugs.  None of the three major ranges in the Phoenix area where Airgunners shoot give a hoot about slugs.  

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by Centercut.
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    zx10wall
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    Franklink

    Cole, thank you for the invite. I most definitely will make the trip to shoot EFT with you all soon. 

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by zx10wall.
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    K
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    Accuracy: +1

    Hi Scott. Happy Thanksgiving.

    I don't see the difference either, but I can see the possibilty that some clubs would ban the use of slugs, not due to safety concerns with their experienced shooters, but simply to keep that random new guy who doesn't know better from showing up alone with his .25 shooting hard cast bullets and there's no one around to stop him.

     

    As an example of something similar at one of my gun clubs I was not permitted to use a properly designed target stand placed 5 yards past the designated 50 yard shooting position. When I inquired as to why the reason I was given is that they write the rules for the dumbest guy out there. They didn't want some new member with an AR showing up, seeing me doing it, and thinking it was OK to set your own targets.

    Knobs

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