Slugs for AAFTA matches?

Come shoot slugs @ Xtreme Field Target this Saturday!

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/xtreme-field-target-sat-nov-27-at-phoenix-rod-and-gun-club/#post-1133227

Let us all buy a rimfire airgun.LOL

Click to expand...

20 FPE rimfire. Sounds logical…….

Maybe a Thomas……..And a whole new competition that they can dominate at

Let us all buy a rimfire airgun.LOL

Click to expand...

20 FPE rimfire. Sounds logical…….

Maybe a Thomas……..And a whole new competition that they can dominate at

Click to expand...

Bill Calfee once said that you can judge how good a competition gunsmith is… not by his number of supporters…but by his number of detractors. 

Mike 

Let us all buy a rimfire airgun.LOL

Click to expand...

20 FPE rimfire. Sounds logical…….

Maybe a Thomas……..And a whole new competition that they can dominate at

//www.w3.org/2000/svg%22%20viewBox=%220%200%20210%20140%22%3E%3C/svg%3E

Click to expand...

Bill Calfee once said that you can judge how good a competition gunsmith is… not by his number of supporters…but by his number of detractors. 

Mike

Click to expand...

Maybe ask around. I've never said anything but good about you. Can you say the same? That said, I don't think I'd ever use any current or past Thomas models. They are not well rounded enough for me and just too focused for one purpose. 

Oh so LAME, just lame…. No technical reason, just change and change can be painful for narrow minds. Maybe we should go back to points and plugs in our cars also? Yup, let’s try and hold back progress as much as possible. That’ll only work until us old guys are replaced by the youngsters. It’s inevitable, but if it makes them feel better for a couple of years more power to them.

Thanks for the update Jim.

Click to expand...

A rulebook is no place for providing reasoning, that would just add noise. But I am happy to shed some light on the reason the decision was made.

The board received a lot of feedback directly on this as well as reading through the opinions shared here and on other forums. At the end of the day, it comes down to a number of venues/clubs being concerned about what happens if a shooter misses a target completely with a slug or that slug ricochets off of the target when hit. A number of MD's stated that their venues (many of them gun clubs) would not allow slug use, that really forced the decision. If the rules allow the use of slugs, then they need to be allowed everywhere. Can't have folks practicing with one ammo type only to have to use something else for one or two matches a year at a specific venue.

Yes, there were also concerns about the "spirit of the game" and a few others that chimed in, but at the end of the day, specific venues not being able to allow slug use was the driving factor in the decision.

...

A number of MD's stated that their venues (many of them gun clubs) would not allow slug use, that really forced the decision. If the rules allow the use of slugs, then they need to be allowed everywhere. ...

Click to expand...

I know at our venue, some of the ranges don't allow jacketed bullets. I don't see a significant safety difference between 20fpe slug shaped lead and 20fpe diabolo shaped lead.

I don't see any advantage in the currently available slugs for our purposes anyway (20fpe, 55yd).

The data on this could easily be pulled from a BC calculator. You’d find out that these small bore, soft lead slugs aren’t a danger. 

Did anyone on the board actually do any meaningful research or was it just easier to rule as possibly unsafe? Oh never mind, doesn’t matter. It’s not a game changer and really not worth the grumble. Let’s play ball

The data on this could easily be pulled from a BC calculator. You’d find out that these small bore, soft lead slugs aren’t a danger. 

Did anyone on the board actually do any meaningful research or was it just easier then as unsafe? Oh never mind, doesn’t matter.

Click to expand...

A high BC slug does carry energy further, but at 20fpe, it's not a lot more energy or a lot further. If it's the probability of a ricochet that's concerning, than material hardness is more of a factor than shape. From a little research on what is allowed and the hazard:

"Ammunition
Pellets that are completely made of lead, lead alloy, zinc, zinc alloy, or similar all-metal material may be used. Airgun slugs may not be used."

From Robert Beeman's "Airgun Projectiles":

"...Lead projectiles have only a small fraction of the ricochet hazard of steel, zinc, or other hard projectiles..."

Come shoot slugs @ Xtreme Field Target this Saturday!

https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/xtreme-field-target-sat-nov-27-at-phoenix-rod-and-gun-club/#post-1133227

Click to expand...

Cole, thank you for the invite. I most definitely will make the trip to shoot EFT with you all soon. 

Hi Scott. Happy Thanksgiving.

I don't see the difference either, but I can see the possibilty that some clubs would ban the use of slugs, not due to safety concerns with their experienced shooters, but simply to keep that random new guy who doesn't know better from showing up alone with his .25 shooting hard cast bullets and there's no one around to stop him.



As an example of something similar at one of my gun clubs I was not permitted to use a properly designed target stand placed 5 yards past the designated 50 yard shooting position. When I inquired as to why the reason I was given is that they write the rules for the dumbest guy out there. They didn't want some new member with an AR showing up, seeing me doing it, and thinking it was OK to set your own targets.

Knobs

Good points Derrick and Scott. From my research and testing, the .177 JSB KO 13.43 grain slugs have about the same BC as the .25 JSB King Heavy or the .22 RD Monster pellets.

So in a choice of little or no research being done, I’ll choose “no” for $200 Alex. As far as ranges that don’t allow Airgun slug shaped pellets, Tyler must have been talking about Airgun only ranges since ranges that allow firearms would never be that ignorant as to not allow Airgun slugs. None of the three major ranges in the Phoenix area where Airgunners shoot give a hoot about slugs.

Click to expand...

Once again Mike, your comments often serve to stir things up rather than reconcile the issue. As an example, the local clubs I shoot at do not use the firearms ranges with berms and eyebrows and such. They use trees and brush to stop the projectiles, and anything that will allow those projectiles to carry further (i.e. slugs with better BC) is a cause of concern for the gun clubs and locations where we shoot. Slugs are not disallowed based on your presumption above.

Jeff Cloud

ASC Match Director

AAFTA BOG Member

But a slug starting at 20fpe should travel farther than a pellet also starting at 20fpe due to its better BC. And that is one issue.

Looking at the issue from a different angle, does the target feel pellet energy or pellet momentum. Any engineer/physicists care to weight in?



Knobs

Having shot the 2018 season with slugs in .177 I can say with authority a properly set target will not rattle down. Also there was no noticeable difference in target wear on my home targets.

As to energy down range I've shot full size egg silhouettes, 1/4" thick at 100yds with 15g pellets, and 15g slugs. While the pellets may knock over the target with one shot, it usually took 2 or three shots to get it over the edge of the stand. The 15g slug would flip it with 1 hit.

Mike, the decision has been made for the 2022 season. If you'd like to participate further in the decision making proccess I propose you start a club to gain a vote and/or lobby to be elected as a BOG member.

John

Gonna hold you to that