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Slugs for AAFTA matches?

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Centercut

Centercut

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Jun 9, 2017
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I'm a bit confused over whether or not slugs (non diabolo shaped projectiles) are legal in AAFTA Field Target events? If you read the AAFTA rules book, it says:

_____________________________________________________________________________

Ammunition

Any design of pellet that is completely made of lead, lead alloy, zinc, zinc alloy, or similar all-metal material may be used.

_____________________________________________________________________________

IMHO, the KEY WORD here is ANY as in "any design of pellet". A slug is most certainly "any" design of pellet. If the AAFTA Directors had meant a diabolo shaped projectile, they more than likely would have stated so. I also take it to mean "projectile" when they say pellet since the guns we shoot are "pellet" guns. 

I shot 13.4 grain JSB KO slugs at the AZ State FT match at Mormon Lake a few weeks back, and presented the slugs when I had my speed checked. No one said a thing contrary... Although I have also heard of Match Directors taking a different stance, getting hung up on the word "pellet", having a misunderstanding of the words "any design", and not allowing slugs.

So which is it? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Anyone???
 
Yeah, 20 FPE soft lead is 20 FPE, right? I really don't even think this is a debatable question, but I know of at least one Match Director that is confused over what ANY DESIGN means, so I thought I'd throw it out there. If the AAFTA BOD doesn't like it, they'll change the rules as they did for prone position when too many shooters started winning with it. Until then, common sense and the rules would tell you that slug shaped pellets are good to go for FT.
 
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Yes, that's the Extreme FT matches with up to 100FPE, and its not done IAW AAFTA rules. With 20 FPE there isn't that concern. But of course if the person owns the property its their rules of course. As far as AAFTA, it the competition is done IAW their rule book and the club wants it to count for the season, that's another story, such as for a GP event... 
 
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Just my two cents however I would not allow "slugs" to be shot on our course. They are called "slugs". They are not called "pellets".

Additionally many/most times they would be over the 20fpe limit and would damage targets. i keep saying this and I will say it again. The biggest advantage of airguns is there low power and limited range. "Slugs" increase range so they could require more concern for safety downrange. "Slugs" could make the difference as to whether a match could be run safely in a given space.

Rick B.

FTRPA


 
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Why would the “slugs” be more than 20 FPE? That’s the limit for Hunter FT correct? As far as this mystical additional range, you could take a look at Strelok and see for smaller .177 lightweight slugs they do travel very slightly farther, but not enough to make a significant distance, since the BC is about the same as .25 Heavy pellets. 
Anyway, I appreciate the responses. I’m still trying g to figure out what “any design” means in the AAFTA rules, since some “pellets” are not wasp waisted (.177 JSB 10.3 gr for example) and are somewhat cylindrical. Maybe the AAFTA rules person could weigh in on this issue…?
 
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They are currently legal as far as I know based on the current wording. A couple guys have been trying to get comparable accuracy from them for a long time without much success. Once someone achieves this and does well at a big match…they will likely take the time to amend the rules to be more clear and only allow Diabolo pellets. I believe the allowance will be very short lived. Short enough to not bother with them for me. It’s a pellet game.
 
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JMO,

Use of slugs should be up to the local MD's discretion. It's his range and his relationship with any Gun Club that might be involved. I know of one location that doesn't allow them and it's not the choice of the MD.

Additionally I don't think it's wise to create a situation where someone shows up and uses the AAFTA rulebook as a lever to shoot what they want. For that reason alone I doubt we'll see the BOG rule that slugs a required to be allowed. It'll most likely be conditional.
 
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K
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JMO,

Use of slugs should be up to the local MD's discretion. It's his range and his relationship with any Gun Club that might be involved. I know of one location that doesn't allow them and it's not the choice of the MD.

Additionally I don't think it's wise to create a situation where someone shows up and uses the AAFTA rulebook as a lever to shoot what they want. For that reason alone I doubt we'll see the BOG rule that slugs a required to be allowed. It'll most likely be conditional.
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I'm not sure then of the purpose of the rule book... I would think a shooter would show up ready and prepared to shoot IAW the rules as written, and if the MD wants to change them or delete an official rule then that is up to him, correct? But I do feel AAFTA would appreciate MDs following the rules as written... 

As far as the BOG, slugs already ARE allowed, so I would think that if they do not want them, or the intention is to use diabolo shaped pellets, they would spell it out in the next rules update. Having shot slugs in an official AAFTA match, I don't see the point in all the resistance. 20 FPE soft lead is 20 FPE soft lead, so a non issue regarding target damage. And the slugs flying for miles on a miss and hitting things the next town over is kinda silly, since the BC for those small slugs is no better than a .25 Heavy pellet. .

So for my own edification, please explain a logical reason WHY slugs wouldn't be allowed in an AAFTA match?
 
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Why not just ask one of the board members from AAFTA?

It’s really of no real use to ask these kinds of questions on a forum since the rules aren’t enforced or derived from forum responses or participation.

Mike 

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Which begs the question: Is AAFTA (IE, the BOG) even still a thing? 

A little devils advocate here.....but what exactly are they doing if they have somehow deemed listening to field target shooters not in their purview?

I'm not arguing against some sort of governing organization for field target here in the US, I'm just not sure AAFTA (the BOG) is "gettin r done," as the impression is that mums the word when stuff like this comes up. 

The last (and only in my 4ish years in FT) time I remember seeing anything resembling them reaching out to ft shooters for input was when our club leadership sent out an email about making Unlimited/Freestyle an AAFTA recognized class. 

I found a little discussion over on Airgun Warriors website saying there was a change in rule about using a back up rifle if the main one goes down during competition. Was there any membership/club input for that decision or was it made unilaterally?
 
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If I recall….Centercut berated the BOG on the forum in a thread long before asking them any relevant questions directly through the proper channel.

Sometimes when people get pissed on they have trouble hearing the guy that’s done the pissing after that.

Seems like this thread was created for a similar purpose.

The BOG is comprised of a bunch of elected people with day jobs. All nice guys with limited time to handle important affairs regarding the direction of the organization. All clubs have the ability to vote on matters and vote for the BOG representative of their choice.

One could always start their own organization to compete with AAFTA in their spare time.

Mike

 
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Frank,

Yes the BOG did ask for club input on the rule change for malfunctions. They got no response until after the change.

The BOG can be reached at [email protected], or by going here http://www.aafta.org/contact.html , or just accessing the contact page on the website.

I know a number of the BOG members. They're good guys but they all cut mind reading class in school.



Knobs
 
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If I recall….Centercut berated the BOG on the forum in a thread long before asking them any relevant questions directly through the proper channel.

Sometimes when people get pissed on they have trouble hearing the guy that’s done the pissing after that.

Seems like this thread was created for a similar purpose.
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Well, I did ask pointed questions, but "berated" would be a stretch. And I did contact them directly, and got a nebulous answer (which I still don't have the answer to) - and I gave up on trying to get it answered. This thread was created to discuss slugs for AAFTA events since the rules, although they appear to be clear, obviously aren't. Just like my previous contact, I wanted to get the general opinion of experienced shooters and/or MDs prior to contacting the BOG. Its called due diligence. Pretty simple. 
 
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Not aware of the "pissing on" that occurred in a previous discussion.

And I'm sure the the BOG members are great people, everyone that I've encountered in field target is exactly that. 

Only trying to point out that the peering down upon us lowly ft shooters from an ivory tower is not a good look. It projects an attitude of disinterest from the BOG towards shooters and their concerns. 

And I get the whole, going through the proper channels concept, but we live in a much more connected world than the one previously served by that method. 

I've got no dog in the slugs for ft fight, I just see this as a valid question by a field target shooter, that simply isn't being addressed by the powers that be. Slugs have been a hot topic in airguns for quite some time now. Guys like Centercut and the Field Target Tech guy out in New York that has put so much time and effort into slugs for ft, and likely others with the same question, should be able to get a solid answer somehow.

Something like, "hey we see your question and the answer is no and will always be no, we'll update the wording in the rulebook," or, "hey we see your question and will reach out to all the club leadership for input and take a vote and get back with you and make a public announcement," would be an appropriate response here. But, no, just crickets. 


 
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