SHORT and POWERFUL Pistol – What do you suggest?

Looking for a SHORT and POWERFUL Pistol – Any Ideas and Mods?

I’ve been looking at pellet pistols lately, and all the models I looked at fail at TWO of the main requirements.




(1) SHORT, as in 10" (25cm) plus/minus.




(2) POWERFUL, as in 6-7FPE muzzle energy (600fps with 7.87 or 8.4gr pellets, 700fps with 5.52gr).




(3) QUIET, as in the PyramydAir loudness rating of 2-Low-to-Medium (Marauder quiet).
The last requirement probably will require a mod, like a 3D-printed large-volume moderator, Leshiy-offset.






So, what do you suggest?





What about CO2 pistols – Can they be upped in power?


Thanks for your ideas!
grin.gif


Matthias








 
Sounds like it'd need to be custom. In order to get that much speed from a .177 with a short barrel (allowing for moderator) You'd have to waste a substantial amount of air. And I do mean a lot.

I'm working on a 1322 PCP project. Customs has been holding some of my parts for well over a month 😡 But when I'm done, it should be about 12" long. Shoot 16gr around 600fps, and be quiet.

I do have a diana bandit that I've detuned. I recon if you cut the barrel down to 6.5 or 7" you'd be able to hit that target velocity. And have a couple inches for a moderator. I had mine shooting 850fps with the factory 9" barrel. But I've got it regulated down to 630fps.

However, you'd still have to deal with the fact that the bandit's grip is pretty uncomfortable. I fixed that on mine.

1576363728_7883518815df566d0ef2711.59142722_74393993_1027696680906116_2386493479896219648_n.jpg

 
This is the best I could do when I had the same need as you. I chopped a PP700 because I wanted a smaller balanced pistol. It shoots 8.80gr Crow magnums 710fps for 16 shots. The ES is usually around 5fps and it’s only 26 pumps with the Hill to fill it back up. Accuracy is insane thanks to the Huma, LW barrel and hours of fine tuning the valve,HS and porting. You can’t buy it so sometimes you have to make it.
1576368376_8605526135df578f83dfd60.03142029_image.jpg

 
This is the best I could do when I had the same need as you. I chopped a PP700 because I wanted a smaller balanced pistol. It shoots 8.80gr Crow magnums 710fps for 16 shots. The ES is usually around 5fps and it’s only 26 pumps with the Hill to fill it back up. Accuracy is insane thanks to the Huma, LW barrel and hours of fine tuning the valve,HS and porting. You can’t buy it so sometimes you have to make it.
1576368376_8605526135df578f83dfd60.03142029_image.jpg

Very nice work. Which end of the air cylinder did you take off?
 
This is the best I could do when I had the same need as you. I chopped a PP700 because I wanted a smaller balanced pistol. It shoots 8.80gr Crow magnums 710fps for 16 shots. The ES is usually around 5fps and it’s only 26 pumps with the Hill to fill it back up. Accuracy is insane thanks to the Huma, LW barrel and hours of fine tuning the valve,HS and porting. You can’t buy it so sometimes you have to make it.
1576368376_8605526135df578f83dfd60.03142029_image.jpg

Very nice work. Which end of the air cylinder did you take off?

Didn’t use the original. Saved it in case I sell the gun. Guys seem to like sticking stocks on the full size pistol.
 
I took an old Crosman barrel, put it in my lathe and machined it to fit the receiver. Started at 10” and tuned the gun for max performance and shot count. Then I cut and crowned the barrel at 9” and did the same thing. I kept taking an inch at a time off the barrel until I got to the lowest velocity that was acceptable to me. When I got to 7”, the gun was a little too slow and didn’t tune as well. I looked at my data and decided on 8.5”. Then I took a LW barrel and made it 8.5” and machined it to fit. The pistol definitely shoots better with barrel tension because I tested it both ways. So I threaded the end of the barrel, made a barrel nut/mod 1/2unf adapter and crowned it so it looks clean. I cut the factory shroud, made a short tube and prayed for as many shots as possible. My favorite .177 hunting pellet is the Crow Magnum. This gun loves them and I regularly take birds out to 50yrds with them. The amount of hours I have in this gun is crazy but it was winter time and that month went by rather quick. The finished gun is still a little cheaper than my Ataman AP16 but not by much.
 
I took an old Crosman barrel, put it in my lathe and machined it to fit the receiver. Started at 10” and tuned the gun for max performance and shot count. Then I cut and crowned the barrel at 9” and did the same thing. I kept taking an inch at a time off the barrel until I got to the lowest velocity that was acceptable to me. When I got to 7”, the gun was a little too slow and didn’t tune as well. I looked at my data and decided on 8.5”. Then I took a LW barrel and made it 8.5” and machined it to fit. The pistol definitely shoots better with barrel tension because I tested it both ways. So I threaded the end of the barrel, made a barrel nut/mod 1/2unf adapter and crowned it so it looks clean. I cut the factory shroud, made a short tube and prayed for as many shots as possible. My favorite .177 hunting pellet is the Crow Magnum. This gun loves them and I regularly take birds out to 50yrds with them. The amount of hours I have in this gun is crazy but it was winter time and that month went by rather quick. The finished gun is still a little cheaper than my Ataman AP16 but not by much.

Very interesting information. Indeed lots of work but it makes for a truly unique piece that seems to work well for you. I'm still wondering about that air cylinder, how you modified it and what you started with. Was it another stock pp700 cylinder that you modified or other?
 
Hi Matt,



Unless you have access to milling machinery, or know someone that can do that for you, modifying a pistol can be a bit of a challenge with just hand tools. It can be done, but few people have the skill and/or equipment to do it.

Beeman, Berretta, Crosman, Sig Sauer, Umarex and more pistols are available in CO2, If you are going to be doing pest control or small game hunting at short range with a Co2 pellet rifle look for velocities of over 700 FPS in .177 cal and over 600 FPS in a .22 cal. But remember that Co2 is very temperature sensitive. For best results shoot your Co2 pistols when the temperature is 70 degrees Fahrenheit or higher. So these pistols have limitations on both range, power, and temperature fluctuations in power.

Further, barrel length is critical in producing maximum fps in any type air gun. Depending on outside temperature you can gain roughly 15 fps per added inch of barrel. Likewise, you lose that same factor when the barrel is cut short.

Co2 is handy beyond belief, cheap, portable, not overly equipment dependent, but severely limited in cold climates. It's a great indoor gun where temperatures are stable. Further, this gas is self limiting in available psi. That's to say when evaporated in a closed cylinder it produces about 1400 psi, The shots will remain quite consistent in velocity and foot pounds of energy, also in number of shots from a 12 gram or larger gas container. Even with it's power limitations, it can get the job done within its' operating distances and templerature range.

HPA is where the power lies. But, you need a high pressure air tank, a fill station (hose, valve, pressure gauge/gauges, QD fitting, etc...)

The real question is how far are you going to shoot, and for what purpose. If it's Summer time fun and target, or short range pest control, Co2 is the way to go.

However, ranges over 30 meters, in various seasons and temperatures, you need HPA (high pressure air) to get the job done. For best power, avoid short barrels. Personally I believe 12" is a good size because it can be powered up to take out medium size game, 'coons, armadillos, and small mammals.

Caliber isn't so critical if limited range/stable temperature, use is the norm. The faster fps in .177 can offset the heavier weight of a .22 pellet...meaning the foot pounds of energy on the target can be just about the same at close ranges...30 meters or less.

There's boatloads of information available here and on Youtube about modifying both types of air gun pistols. DonnyFL has a moderator suited to your needs for a reasonable price, or you can 3D print your own, just don't expect the same degree of sound reduction in similar sized moderators when using equal sized professionally produced vs. 3D printed moderators. 

Knock yourself out. Just have some fun while learning the sport. Personally, I'd start with an inexpensive C02 gun and get some practical experience under my belt before going to the expense of HPA.



Hoot