Shooting a PCP at 50yds is like shooting centerfire at ???? yards

Good question Matt... I've often wondered the same thing, not at 50 yards, but at 100 yards. The way I see it, with an airgun sighted in at 50 yards, the drop to 100 yards for most (around 875 to 880 FPS), will be about 3.5 to 4 MIL. So lets look at a .308, or even a 6.5C, zero'd at 100 yards. The drop at about 600 yards is the same MIL (approx.). Also, if you plug the same wind speed in STRELOK Pro for 100 yards (pellet) and 600 yards (centerfire), the wind drift is similar. And consider that 1 MOA is pretty much the gold standard, one inch for the pellet at 100 yards, six inches for the centerfire at 600 yards. So my thought is that shooting a quality pellet rifle (pellet, not slug) at 100 yards is equivalent to shooting a quality centerfire at 600 yards... IMHO of course...

One of the reasons I got into pcp Rifles were that I was tired of driving 3.5 hours each way to a 1000 yd range for my 308. I would say 1000yards with my 308 was like 200 on my 25 cal Edgun R3m. Long. But 50yards air rifle is more like 200 on my 308 as I would always be right on at these distances 

As far as accuracy, I'd say 50 yard PCP shooting roughly equates to 100 yards with centerfires IN STILL WINDS. Not so in windy conditions; but who likes to shoot groups in windy conditions anyhow? 

Expect 1/2" to 1" average five-shot groups with a PCP at 50 or a centerfire at 100. Gravitate toward either type rifles' price extremes and group-sizes can shrink or grow accordingly, however still remain about as comparable between the two types of guns. 

I asked Bob aka rsterne this question a year or so ago and this was his answer

"If you are shooting decent round-nose pellets in the mid 900's, and the rifle is sighted about 1/3 of the way to the target, an airgun at 100 yards has a similar trajectory and wind drift (in MOA) to a .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) at about 600 yards (and sighted at 200).... If you scale the target down by a factor of 6 as well, you will be facing a similar challenge, which is one of the reasons for the dimensions chosen for the N.U.A.H. targets for use at 100 yards.... 

If you use bullets in the airgun instead of pellets, you can easily cut the wind drift in half compared to a pellet, although the trajectory (over 100 yards) won't be that much different.... Although most shooters would never believe it, using a bullet with a good BC in an airgun with the velocity in the mid 900s actually has similar wind drift to the same bullet in a PB at 3 times the velocity.... This is because of the huge increase in drag in Supersonic flight....

Bob"

I think you'd have to add more than what strelok suggests because of the poor BC of pellets vs a typical boat tail bullet and how much wind affects both

Think a lot depends on the optics and the cost of either. I would compare a Crown with a good PCP scope to a Cooper with a good scope and in 223. 1/2 minute of angle are reasonable with each. And the drop will be 1/4 of the center fire just using raw physics @ 32' per second per second. So to me 50 and 200 yards.

For high power centerfire silhouette the ram is at 500 meters (550 yards). For the proxy ram in air rifle it is at 45 yards. So that is a factor of 12.2, so 50 scales to 610 yards. Since this 600 was proposed by other means in this thread, I''d say 600 is pretty good guess. 

Of air rifle, rimfire, centerfire, I think rimfire is the hardest. 

i think we are blowing things out of proportion. many more people can hit a 1” target at 50 yards with an airgun. but i would bet not many could hit a 12” target at 600 yards.

Mike and Dillon, you're both equating 100 yd PCP to 600 yd Centerfire if I read you correct?

So would we agree that 50 yd PCP is close to 300 yd Centerfire?

Interesting thread. Subscribed.

Fuss

Funny that this topic is brought up. Years ago I had one of my students in apprenticeship class burn me out like 4 silhouettes of bucks, standing about 10” tall to the back. He was in charge of the plasma machine where he worked at, and he burned me out soldier figures, deer, rabbit, etc. The animals I painted all flat black, and I would set them out at 30 yards which to me while looking thru a scope at 12 power seemed like it would be the size of a full grown buck at say, 150 yards. I use to take my beeman RX gas ram and hit those targets as “practice” a month before opening day of deer season. 



The soldiers I painted up in camo and let my then 8 year old son practice at being a sniper, lol. Of course, we would do this after watching “Enemy of the Gates”.

yeah, to me a 35 yard shot at a sheet metal buck silhouette that stood 10” tall and was 12” long seemed like a 150 to 200 yard max shot if looked at thru the scope of an ‘06

I love these comparison topics.

My Remington 700 Heavy Barrel .308, with 168gr Sierra Match King bullets, and 42 grains of IMR 4064 can group 5 shots at 300 yards in 3 inches, at 200 yards it's under 1 1/2 inches, and at 100 yards it's under an inch, all day long, even with a "breeze", and better at all ranges under ideal conditions.

My Impact X .22 can easily do under 3/4 inch 50 yards, and although I've only done this once, a 5 shot group was about 2 inches at 100 yards. There was a little wind that day, so I'm sure I could get that down a bit.

To answer your question, I would say my PCP can hang in close to PB's out to 50 yards, on a good day. If there's a 20 mph cross wind, you can guess the winner. At 100 yards don't bet the farm on a PCP vs a shooter who knows his/hers conventional rifle, whether it's an AR, or a bolt, or even. a TC Encore Pistol. It is not an equal field. Plus the power factor is almost exponential.

Yes Jimmy I would say that. 50yds is like 300yds.

I think where people are getting confused is I believe what Matt meant was ballistically how can one compare not necessarily accuracy wise but I could be wrong.

but what about the scope used on both

so if you say 50 yds AG is 300 yd for PB's and you use a let say a 18 power scope on the PB at 300 yds now what would the air rifle use, I'm thinking just 3 power

I have shoot at 300 yds with open sights in .308 and it was not easy and even with an 18 power scope can be tricky

but I think to make this fair the air rifle gets I/6th of the scope value that the powder burner gets and that makes that 50 yard shot very interesting

yes-no-maybe

Yes Jimmy I would say that. 50yds is like 300yds.

I think where people are getting confused is I believe what Matt meant was ballistically how can one compare not necessarily accuracy wise but I could be wrong.

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Thanks Dillon, I'm like Matt. I haven't shot enough powder burners to even compare, but still trying to get the ever elusive 1 inch group at 100 yds with my Cricket. I've shot three 1.5 inch groups one behind the other last time out. So I'll lay claim to 1.5 moa for my hundred yard skills for now. LOL

Jimmy

50/300

100/600

but what about the scope used on both

so if you say 50 yds AG is 300 yd for PB's and you use a let say a 18 power scope on the PB at 300 yds now what would the air rifle use, I'm thinking just 3 power

I have shoot at 300 yds with open sights in .308 and it was not easy and even with an 18 power scope can be tricky

but I think to make this fair the air rifle gets I/6th of the scope value that the powder burner gets and that makes that 50 yard shot very interesting

yes-no-maybe

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Good analogy Marflow. I'm shooting with scope set on 30 power with my PCP. Would definitely need 180 power on a 300 yd shot! LOL

Peace and Hubble Telescope grease

Fuss

Oh I'm with you Jimmy! I myself was curious also as my powder burning experience is about 95% shotguns. Duck hunting, dove and pigeons and such. 1000s of shells gone through over the years. Hell wore out the ejector on my 870 even lol. But rifles geez maybe few hundred rounds .22lr mostly with open sights and maybe 50 rounds of 17HMR and 50 of my Rem 700 .223 in my life. I was curious too so asked on the GTA and got that answer. Reason why I asked was my cousins and in laws are big into powder burners and was curious how they compared to my airguns.

A 8-10g .177 pellet avg. 20fpe from the muzzle at 50yds with a 30yd zero with give similar drop and wind drift as a .22rf shooting standard ammo at 200yd with a 100yd zero. This I can say from experience. Any other calibers in either platform will have to tested by those with them.

50/300

100/600

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I agree. I think the proof is the silhouette game and it’s pretty clear. Rim fire 1/5 the the center fire and I believe air rifle 1/2 the rim fire.

Some one commented about the difficulty of hitting a 12 inch target at 600 yards with a 308. Many probably don’t have a range to attempt I very fortunately do and other then the recoil it’s pretty easy given of course good conditions

NOW the only thing I will add is some of these state of the air PCP rifles shooting slugs at high velocity are sneaking up on the 22 rim fires Bob’s video’s are evidence of that. They are 3/4 of the 22 if not more. AND the proof of a good 22 is what it does at 100 and my PCP’s all really have no issues at 50. 75 yards and you begin to be able to pick out the winners. SO? Maybe 75/100/600 ?