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Setting up an adjustable stock.

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BDX

BDX

Member
Sep 4, 2018
227
5
CA
I searched the forums for any previous threads but no luck, so I hope you folks might be able help out. 

The airgun i’m working with is Air Arms’ new S510 Ultimate XS. As I’ve gotten more familiar with it I’ve come to realize that as a big guy the factory stock setup is ridiculous. Now that’s not the case for everyone. In chatting with Bob_O, who has the same rifle, he hasn’t adjusted anything. Yet for me I come away from my table with tight neck muscles, tired eyes and generally not anxious to go back out for another couple hours of shooting.

I’ve done a lot of web browsing and there seems to be conflicting opinions as to what to adjust first, cheekweld, or length of pull (LOP). Adjusting cast (as on the FX Crown) is much less of a concern. I’m most likely to shoot from a bench or with a bipod. I do understand that all of these stock adjustments have the potential to be adjusted depending on stance.

What concerns me is the effect that an LOP adjustment increasing stock length will have on my eye relief/eye box. For some reason I had a difficult time finding a scope that was forgiving in that respect. I blew my budget to find one that worked for me but I’m very happy with my SWFA FFP. However the rifles front scope mount area is so short before the breech I don’t have much latitude to move the front ring back and there’s not much rear adjustment on the scope barrel to scoot it back in the rings. Guess I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it

opinions, process, comments, derogatory or otherwise gratefully accepted! 


 
I have not done this but watched a world class stock maker tackle just such a problem. He first had the customer shoulder the gun in several different position while the customer was looking into a mirror. The gun had no scope or sights allowed during this process. What was so interesting was the shooter did most of the work. First thing they adjusted was LOP. In this case it worked out to be almost exactly the old bent arm stock in crock and finger pad touching trigger. They did it several times standing , sitting, and prone. Once that was close they moved on to the cheek weld head position and the customer had to re-learn how to hold the gun square. He would not raise his arm high enough to create a good pocket. That brought the gun into his cheek rather than moving his head /neck at an awkward position that tired him out. Finally the scope was the last thing they adjusted. This was many many years ago so please don't take it to church. 

As far as scope adjustments nowadays with the 11mm dovetail to Picatinny converter rails you can get mounts that will allow you to get the proper eye relief. The SWFA are great for eye relief. Hope this leads you to some solutions. If not my name is MUD! (Nick)
 
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The sequence in which In am used to set up a rifle is the following:

Take your scope/ sights off. Assume your natural shooting position. Adjust the cant on the buttpad to maximize shoulder contact.

Then see if your right hand naturally grips the pistol grip without a significant bend in the wrist. If the wrist is turned outward then add LOP until your wrist is straight.

Now mount the scope, but keep the back scope cover on, and assume shooting position with your eyes closed. (This is very important). With eyes closed open the back scope cover and then open your eyes. If you are not looking straight through the scope, ( head above or below-- usually below) adjust the cheekpiece in small increments and repeat the process above. When you've got the right height lock down the cheekpiece height.

Finally push the scope along its ring (eyes closed again) until you open your eyes and see the full bright circle. Usually at this step I put the scope on its lowest magnification, which usually requires the longest eye relief, and pull the scope towards me until I see a dark ring(too close) and push it just back until I see a bright full circle. Then I go to the highest magnification to make sure there is no shadowing.

In one case with a cheap scope I simply couldn't get this to work and decided on maximizing for the highest magnification( shortest eye relief) and kept pushing the scope as far as I could.

If you are shooting slinged, then you have to get to the handstop after fixing the buttpad , but don't think that's the case.

Hope this, rather elaborate, write up will help you get close to the perfect set up. But one almost always needs very small minor final adjustments after the first shooting session.


 
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You guys have been fantastic, thanks very much. 

Functor, Elaborate? Hardly! informative? yes!

Unfortunately guys I don't think I have a can't adjustment. I just spent an hour playing with the adjustments available to me on the XS: An interesting cheek piece with vertical adjustment but also swivels (the cheekpiece is on a single post). Not quite sure what to do with that. Additionally I was very surprised to see that instead of having an adjustable (in/out) butt plate on posts one is required to purchase additional 4mmm thick "plates" to increase LOP. Unfortunately my arms are so long I don't think there are enough 4mm thick butt plate shims available to decrease a bend in my wrist! (gorilla arms). They do mention in the manual I might have to purchase longer screws to add the plates. Man I sincerely hope I don't have to sell the first born to install a Rowan Engineering butt.

The last adjustment is the vertical adjustment on the butt piece itself which I understand will allow one to elevate the rifle and to assist in aligning the scope. As it stands now adjusting the cheek piece alone doesn't seem to put my eyes in line with the scope picture.

I particularly appreciate the tips on scope placement process in the rings. I'm so new at this I didn't realize that magnification would make a difference with respect to eye box and relief. I suddenly realized that much of issue stems from the fact that I adjusted the scope in a standing position. My eye is much closer to the ocular. Its completely "off" when I sit at a bench or table. As setup currently when I'm at the bench I really have to maneuver my neck, head and shoulders to achieve a clear scope picture. I also noticed was that when I sit any the bench it's much easier to establish a clear scope picture with the Harris bipod extended to its full 9" length on the bench as opposed to its 6" closed length. I also noticed that the SportsMatch rings I used in place of some BKL High's are considerably lower.

I'll have to play with all of these but its obvious I'm going to start by sitting at my bench and use the bipod to raise the rifle to a more comfortable position. 

George


 
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You guys have been fantastic, thanks very much. 

Functor, Elaborate? Hardly! informative? yes!

Unfortunately guys I don't think I have a can't adjustment. I just spent an hour playing with the adjustments available to me on the XS: An interesting cheek piece with vertical adjustment but also swivels (the cheekpiece is on a single post). Not quite sure what to do with that. Additionally I was very surprised to see that instead of having an adjustable (in/out) butt plate on posts one is required to purchase additional 4mmm thick "plates" to increase LOP. Unfortunately my arms are so long I don't think there are enough 4mm thick butt plate shims available to decrease a bend in my wrist! (gorilla arms). They do mention in the manual I might have to purchase longer screws to add the plates. Man I sincerely hope I don't have to sell the first born to install a Rowan Engineering butt.

The last adjustment is the vertical adjustment on the butt piece itself which I understand will allow one to elevate the rifle and to assist in aligning the scope. As it stands now adjusting the cheek piece alone doesn't seem to put my eyes in line with the scope picture.

I particularly appreciate the tips on scope placement process in the rings. I'm so new at this I didn't realize that magnification would make a difference with respect to eye box and relief. I suddenly realized that much of issue stems from the fact that I adjusted the scope in a standing position. My eye is much closer to the ocular. Its completely "off" when I sit at a bench or table. As setup currently when I'm at the bench I really have to maneuver my neck, head and shoulders to achieve a clear scope picture. I also noticed was that when I sit any the bench it's much easier to establish a clear scope picture with the Harris bipod extended to its full 9" length on the bench as opposed to its 6" closed length. I also noticed that the SportsMatch rings I used in place of some BKL High's are considerably lower.

I'll have to play with all of these but its obvious I'm going to start by sitting at my bench and use the bipod to raise the rifle to a more comfortable position. 

George

Click to expand...

Oh you and I then have the same problem. I am slightly over 6 feet tall and have ape limbs-- there has not been a single rifle ( air or otherwise) whose length of pull fitted me. I don't understand why a thousand dollars airgun won't at least give the option of additional butt spacers. I have an AA MPR stock and I had to get quite a lot of spacers made by someone and extra long screws to bring up the length of pull. I know the standard AA spacer they're referring to, and it's a bit pricey, and won't get you the full LOP. But I think if you buy two sets and buy extra long bolts from a hardware store of the appropriate length, it will get you there. However this option will still be less expensive than a Rowan buttplate and worth investigating before you commit to a fully adjustable buttplate. The cant is a useful feature to have but not really mandatory. 

And indeed your head position will vary from position to position. I suggest you set up your scope in the position you'll use most of the time and just accept that the rest of the positions might be less than ideal as far as ergonomics are concerned. 

Good luck setting up your rifle. Once set up all the pain will be worth it though-- when a stock fits properly you will suddenly feel the rifle just becomes stationary on the target. It does help a lot. 


 
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functor

Oh you and I then have the same problem. I am slightly over 6 feet tall and have ape limbs– there has not been a single rifle ( air or otherwise) whose length of pull fitted me. I don't understand why a thousand dollars airgun won't at least give the option of additional butt spacers. I have an AA MPR stock and I had to get quite a lot of spacers made by someone and extra long screws to bring up the length of pull. I know the standard AA spacer they're referring to, and it's a bit pricey, and won't get you the full LOP. But I think if you buy two sets and buy extra long bolts from a hardware store of the appropriate length, it will get you there. However this option will still be less expensive than a Rowan buttplate and worth investigating before you commit to a fully adjustable buttplate. The cant is a useful feature to have but not really mandatory. 

And indeed your head position will vary from position to position. I suggest you set up your scope in the position you'll use most of the time and just accept that the rest of the positions might be less than ideal as far as ergonomics are concerned. 

Good luck setting up your rifle. Once set up all the pain will be worth it though– when a stock fits properly you will suddenly feel the rifle just becomes stationary on the target. It does help a lot.
Click to expand...

Lol! Guess I've joined the Simian Pelletiers Functor...whens our next meeting?
 
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I have not done this but watched a world class stock maker tackle just such a problem. He first had the customer shoulder the gun in several different position while the customer was looking into a mirror. The gun had no scope or sights allowed during this process. What was so interesting was the shooter did most of the work. First thing they adjusted was LOP. In this case it worked out to be almost exactly the old bent arm stock in crock and finger pad touching trigger. They did it several times standing , sitting, and prone. Once that was close they moved on to the cheek weld head position and the customer had to re-learn how to hold the gun square. He would not raise his arm high enough to create a good pocket. That brought the gun into his cheek rather than moving his head /neck at an awkward position that tired him out. Finally the scope was the last thing they adjusted. This was many many years ago so please don't take it to church. 

As far as scope adjustments nowadays with the 11mm dovetail to Picatinny converter rails you can get mounts that will allow you to get the proper eye relief. The SWFA are great for eye relief. Hope this leads you to some solutions. If not my name is MUD! (Nick)
Click to expand...

Nick, Can you get me the guys name? Lol! It does appear that when the scope is brought into play is a matter of choice based on what I've read and watched, and absolutely the SWFA's are great in that respect...interestingly enough it appears that I might actually have to move the scope forward a bit but I can't know that until I resolve the length of pull issue. I may adapt a trick I watched and that was using closed cell foam to build up a cheek piece, I'd simply put it on the butt and see what kind of LOP I might need

I just feel cramped when I'm in my bench position, hunched over if you will, and the bench height might be part of that problem as well. As I said putting the rifle on the bench with bipod extended made a significant improvement. Vertical butt plate adjustment might also help with that. 

I did consider the dove tail to picatinny adapters but having now invested serious bucks in two sets of rings (SportsMatch Verticals & BKL High's) I want to try to make this work with those rings first before I decide to switch up. I know Bob_O loves his FX rings and his Picatinny on Hawke and bought the adapters for that but I'm not a big fan of adding extra hardware if at all possible 

Mud?! NO way!I Really appreciated yours and everyones input, it always stimulates the brains.

George

PS Nick, Wheres the wildfire you have in your profile pic? Reminds me of the area around where the Holy Fire started in SoCal...
 
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Naturally a custom ( not after market) stock would be needed to correctly fit you, but.

Pick your number 1 shooting position, close eyes/shoulder rifle/open eyes and you should have a flawless on target view, if not adjust again, nothing to it.





John

Click to expand...

John, just so! The amount of money spent on the rifle alone at this point doesn't warrant just tearing the stock off and finding Socaloldman's custom stock builder! lol, When one shoots multiple positions you end up compromising to some degree and I'm fine with that. I've few more tricks to try. I'll tape some strips of closed cell foam (as used to make camping sleeping pads) to build out the butt pad and find out how far off the LOP needs to be. I've three existing adjustments on the rifle and yet another set of even taller higher scope rings (BKL's) to work to work with as well as the butt plate spacers AA sells before I start thinking about investing £340.00 on a System Gemini butt plate. Appreciate the tip and I'll incorporate it as I work with the fitment.

George


 
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