Screws working loose hw50s

So i took my hw50s out to a friend's farm this weekend and noticed all the screws were loose. I've probably out 100 shots through it since I got it recently. I tightened them all down and then the gun wouldn't group at all and the POI changed massively. I backed the screws off from tight to just snugged up and accuracy returned but the screws worked loose again over my 50-75 shot farm session. 

What is the best solution to this?
 
I use this on motorcycle and guns.
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Clean both the male and female threads with a solvent to remove any oil. Apply blue thread locker to the screws and install them and let them cure for 24 hours before shooting.


91% Isopropyl Alcohol. Meijers or walmart carry it. Makes a good cleaning solvent that evaporates quickly. Highly flammable so do not use near open flames.
 
Check the stock inletting. Most guns will have some rough wood or other imperfections that prevent a really smooth mating of metal to wood. When I get a new rifle in hand, the first thing I do is a quick rubdown of the inletting with 150 or 220 grit sandpaper.

The worst problem I ever had with keeping screws tight, was with a Webley C1 carbine, that turned out to have a prominent varnish run across the inside of the fore end. This acted as a fulcrum for the action to wobble back and forth. Once that was cleared up, no problems.

Another good trick (though possibly not applicable to the 50S?), is to put a washer under the heads of the stock attachment screws. I like to lube between this and the screw head with a bit with dry lithium grease. You get a better “feel” when tightening the screw if the head is not twisting directly into the wood, and this also helps to prevent vibration being translated into a turning force on the screw, if that makes sense.

Goes without saying to de-grease both the screws and the holes they fit into, and use the lightest grade of Loc-Tite or similar stuff on them.
 
I would say that having to leave the screws less than fully tightened to get good accuracy from a springer is not normal. I am not sure what is going on with your rifle. Maybe there is some problem with the bedding as Mike suggested, or maybe leaving the screws a little loose is letting the action move in the stock and making it less hold sensitive. I fully tighten my action screws and get good accuracy. I could be wrong, but I think most people shooting springers have the same experience.

In any case, I would check the bedding for signs of uneven contact, gently relieve those areas if needed, then fully tighten the action screws using Loctite to make sure they don't work loose. I wish I could give you a torque number for the screws, but I don't track it like I do with my firearms. If I had to guess I would say it is probably in the area of 20-25 in-lb for the bottom action screws, and 15-20 in-lb for the front stock screws (the ones on the side of the forend) when present. I would suggest 15 in-lb as the bare minimum for action screws on a springer.
 
Clean both the male and female threads with a solvent to remove any oil. Apply blue thread locker to the screws and install them and let them cure for 24 hours before shooting.

This is exactly to a "T" what I had to do with my 97K. It did the trick. 

Edenwildfood........have you tried this yet? Just curious as to whether or not you have cured this issue you are having.


 
I believe the torque values are 22in lb for the front stock screws and the rear trigger guard screw. I have heard two different figures for the front trigger guard screw at 27in lb and 44in lb. I'm guessing its 27.

Something else to consider trying is if you have some super thin CA glue to absorb into the areas of the stock bolt holes that the bolt head compresses down onto to keep from crushing that part of it, be sure to give it a day to fully cure, that should help the stock resist expansion and contraction due to humity during various times of the year.

Beyond that as others have stated thoroughly clean the threads and check the inletting. Also there is a thread on Gateway to Airguns forum called Soft Bedding Spring guns in the which you may to look into, there are claims that it can make a spring piston rifle a little less hold sensitive and more sandbag friendly for bench shooting. I am not certain of that yet but what I have noticed is that my screws have not loosened in the last 1500 rounds(new rifle) that and perhaps the stiffening of the screw holes and thread cleaning.
 
As there seems to be general agreement on torque values, I am going to take a stab at describing how I would go about torqueing down the action screws on the HW50s specifically. 

I believe there are two what I call action screws on this rifle, one at the front of the trigger guard, and a second at the front that threads into the bridge under the cocking arm. The small screw at the rear of the trigger guard only holds the trigger guard in place, and plays a minor, if any, role in securing the action to the stock. Given that the goal is to obtain uniform seating of the action in the stock, the action screws need to be tightened alternately and in small steps. The trigger guard itself acts to distribute load for the rear action screw, the front screw should have the largest washer possible placed between it and the wood to reduce wood compression. A torque wrench and bits that provide a good fit to the screws will make the job easier and more repeatable.

Begin by running all three screws in then backing off a quarter turn to leave them a bit loose. At this point I turn the rifle barrel up to make sure the action is seated back in the stock. With the rifle upright I begin tightening the action screws in 5 in-lb increments starting at the rear screw. Once the screws have been tightened to 10 in-lb the rifle can be laid down or left upright for final tightening as you prefer. Continue tightening until the final desired torque is reached on each of the two screws. Since the HW50s is not a heavy recoiling rifle, 25 in-lb might be enough to hold things firm and keep screws from loosening. Once the action screws are tight, I tighten the rear guard screw just enough to keep it from working loose.

On a new rifle, it is often the case that screws will need to be retorqued before each use several times until the action and screws fully settle in the wood. During this period, I do not use Loctite as I am concerned it may affect my torque readings. After two or three rounds of retorquing, it should take no more than a slight rotation of the screw to bring torque back to the targeted value, less than 1/8 of a turn. If the screws won't hold torque, you could try a higher torque value. If that doesn't work, something will need to be done to reduce wood compression, bigger washers or some type of bedding. Once torque seems to have stabilized, the screws can be removed, cleaned, Loctite applied, and then reinstalled and torqued down to the final values.


 
I had seen these brass screw cups on AoA site I think,I can't find them now. To use them you simply glue them in place of the star washers. I think it mentioned " Weihrauch " in the description " to. They were $15.00 as I recall. A couple of shell caseings (9mm ,maybe 38 or 32 cal pistol or small caliber rifle cartridge case) cut,down and the primer hole enlarged to accept the screws would do the same thing in my frugal mind. May be a viable alternative. The idea here is to keep the screws from compressing the wood and damaging the stock. I found something on amazon (Weihrauch fits HW 97 and HW 77 Black Fore end, Brass Cups, Trigger Guard Screws.
 
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Some harden the hole wood with stuff like superglue to help keep that wood from compressing, also over time of tighting down plenty of times the wood in the holes self compresses / harden up and youll find they stay tight even without locktite ..

Im sure looking around youll find plent on keeping screws tight on hw guns.. just one of them hw things , but minor inconvenience till things season in and set..

P.s...

Dont get mad at it and crank them down.
Just snugg them up proper as it goes and eventually it will become a non-issue. ( as in dont over do them and strip or crack things). Just takes time and patience..
 
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I keep these in my range bag for loose springer screws. Some screws (especially the rear trigger screw) refuse to stay tight even after some blue locktite. Nice quality kit without breaking the bank.

A main culprit

I changed out the factory screw ( small trigger guard) with another off the shelve black #10 torx head and problem solved .

It was like the factory screw threads were loose in the gun threads but the replacement one fit " correctly".

Wierd..😕
guardscrew.jpg
 
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So i took my hw50s out to a friend's farm this weekend and noticed all the screws were loose. I've probably out 100 shots through it since I got it recently. I tightened them all down and then the gun wouldn't group at all and the POI changed massively. I backed the screws off from tight to just snugged up and accuracy returned but the screws worked loose again over my 50-75 shot farm session.

What is the best solution to this?
All good suggestions. Harden the wood around the screws, locktite, etc

Try to keep track of your accuracy and chrono data in a log book.

A tune might be in the future if you see wide swings. Might also help in less vibration and less stress on vibrating the screws loose
 
So i took my hw50s out to a friend's farm this weekend and noticed all the screws were loose. I've probably out 100 shots through it since I got it recently. I tightened them all down and then the gun wouldn't group at all and the POI changed massively. I backed the screws off from tight to just snugged up and accuracy returned but the screws worked loose again over my 50-75 shot farm session.

What is the best solution to this?
You’ve read all the comments about loc title. I call bull poop. Just take a screwdriver with you eventually they will stabilize.
 
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