Scope… do i really need an A/O ?

Forums Optics, Scopes, Rings, & Mounts Scope… do i really need an A/O ?

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    crittahitta
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    Ok so all my scopes have an adjustable objective. The hawke scope on my 25 cal condor ss is really nice but if i adjust my power from 4 to 12 my crosshairs are off.  Making quick shots at multiple distances are a thing of the past. I have to have a cheat sheet for each gun.

    So i figured i would try a FFP scope for my new bantam. And yes that makes life easier for me. BUT… this weekend i was shooting at red squirrels and they are quick and can run 30 yards while trying to get a shot off making the A/O a pain in the butt to keep adjusting every time the critter stops.

    If im going to mostly hunt birds, squirrels and rabbits under 60 yards do i really need an adjustable objective? 

    The discovery FFP 6-24×50 is very clear but i cant see the crosshairs or mil dots in the woods and feel i waisted $235 

    Any thoughts or suggestions are welcome.

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    nervoustrig
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    Yes, for a range extending out to 60 yards, the amount of parallax error will be enough to completely miss small targets / kill zones.  If you have absolutely robotic 100% consistent cheek weld, it would not matter but for us biological creatures, it’s a problem.  

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    Coldair
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    Typically NON-AO scopes are set parallax free from 50 or 100 yards which is where the closest shots were intended and would recommend researching the manufacturer which one it is. You may run into some accuracy problems shooting closer than that unless like nervoustrig stated you have robotic repeatibility when shooting however if you buy  NON-AO however low magnification rimfire scopes or very low magnification scopes such as 1-4X or 1.5-4-5x they seemed to do fine when I tried those for airgun use.

    CA

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    steve-l
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    Scopes are superior to every thing else when you have time. However, when hunting at ranges under 60 yards, it's hard to beat open sights for quick target acquisitions, wide field of view and quick shots. Interestingly, most air guns are not offered with QUALITY open sights. There are huge differences in these sights. They are not plug & play like scopes. They often take serious effort and intricate machine work by a competent machinist to install. Now I'm not talking about competition open sights. They too are useless for fast target acquisition and quick shots. Ultimately, it is personal preference is to what works for you, but practice and more practice is the key with open sights.

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    nervoustrig
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    I can barely see something like a house sparrow or chipmunk at 60 yards.  It would be quite a thing to behold someone greasing one with open sights, even a good aperture sight zeroed at that distance, not to mention if holdover is necessary.  Remember, with an airgun, it’s not just enough to make contact.  It has to be in a very small kill zone. 

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    BeemanR7
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    Crittahitta,

    In direct answer to your question, YES, you absolutely need either an AO (Adjustable Objective) or an SF (Side Focus wheel) to correct parallax error!

    When I was a kid, I shot a mountain of feral pigeons with open sights out to 50 yards. I couldn't do it now because my old tired eyes won't focus well enough to use iron sights at any range of distance. A scope is a necessity. And without an AO or a side focus (SF) to correct parallax error, my scope would be as useless as iron sights. Few and far between are those who are so robotically precise in their eye placement as make an AO or SF optional. Get a scope with either an AO or an SF. If you don't, you'll simply have to learn the hard way.

    And if your POI changes when you change magnification power, then your scope needs to be serviced. If your scope is under warranty, send it in for warranty repair or replacement. If your scope is out of warranty, send it in for repair or buy a new one.

    If you can't see your crosshairs in the woods, either set your magnification to a higher power on your FFP scope to make the crosshairs larger and more visible, or trade your scope for one that has a lighted reticle. Either that, or mount a flashlight on your gun to illuminate your target. That will make your game visible, and also make your un-lighted reticle visible to you. Get a flashlight that emits a red or green light so as not to spook your prey. I'm very successful with this arrangement and I recommend it.

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    socaloldman
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    I thought this was interesting because I encountered the same question.  With the .177 and JSB 10.3 when shooting close 5yards to 40 yards you have very little change and for hunting fast shots it works fine without any need for focus.   Even out to 50 yards you can deal with the one inch holdover.   At 60 yards you run into trouble   with 2.9 inch drop but my old eyes don't work that far without scope.  But for close in fast shooting a red dot or low power 2 to 4x works great.   We get used to judging  distance and can make those minor adjustments just fine and fast. QD rings  are a godsend when swapping between close hunting optics and higher power longer range stuff.  My 2 cent.

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    spysir
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    No.

    Not "needed" at all, just what people are accustomed to these days in airguns in the U.S. .

     Admittedly most of my personal exp. with NOT having/using adjustment was in .177 and sub 12fpe however lot's of other folks abroad shoot HFT without adjustment. If you keep to airgun ranges you can just set it at what works best for you in general. On a scope with no A/O – and maybe focused at 50 or 100 yards from the factory- you can adjust it to suit your needs.   The FFP scopes lend themselves  to this well.

     

    John

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    Eddie_E
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    My experience with scopes under $150 is that they all come with the parallax set to 100 yds if they are not AO models. It's pretty much an industry standard. There are a few exceptions like one of the UTG models comes set to a fixed 30 yd setting and scopes that have the word "shotgun" in the title will be set to 35~50 yds. Thais also makes it easy to test for yourself. Just set your current scope to 100 yds and leave it there for a week of shooting. What you see will be what you would get buying a fixed AO.

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    oldsparky
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    I mostly shoot targets and have A/O scopes but for the first 40 years I had a lot of rifle scope combinations. I took everything from elk to squirrels with a fixed objective type scope and didn't miss very often. But one thing I didn't have scopes with multiple aiming points. For all around posting a lei-old 3-9 efr could be hard to beat but you would have to use Kentucky windage

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster

    I only use ffp scopes because I like to change the magnification & not worry about changing holdover.

    If I have the time then I always adjust for parallax.  If you dont have time to adjust parallax then you may be able to get away with just using lower magnification.  For example… I recently took 1st place in the EBR Speed Silo competition.  The targets were 25y, 35y, 45y, 55y.  With no time to change parallax between distances I set parallax near the middle (about 40y) and turned the magnification down to about 9x or 10x. This gave me a large field of view & kept all the targets in decent focus… good enough to take down 5 Rams @ 55y, 5 Turkeys at 45y, 5 Pigs at 35y, and 5 Chickens at 25y in just over a minute.

    I believe parallax is accentuated at higher magnifications so theoretically the parallax should be less with less magnification.  If your shooting dusk/dawn/poorly lit grounds then you may want to consider an illuminated reticle as well.

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    elh0102
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    I'm in the process of converting to all side focus scopes. AO is fine, probably a simpler design, but if you use it a lot, side focus is so much easier. But, to your question, when I'm hunting, I generally dial my scope back to around 6X, set the parallax around 30 or 40 yards. If a close opportunity arises, I can usually handle it without adjustment. If I see one at longer range, I usually have time to change the power and focus. 

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    JamesD.
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    I tried FFP. Hated it. Almost as much as I hate the red squirrels. They kill grays for no reason. I popped one a few weeks ago, and just saw another this weekend. Dam things aren't much bigger than a chipmunk but they'll beat a grey every time. Yeah, I've got some pesting to do.

    If you know your shots are always under 60 yards then I'd have fixed scopes. I target shoot & prefer to shoot on 6X, but there's times 24x is nice to zoom onto group & see. Other times I like my 1.25x4x32 scope. There's a lot of choices out there & I feel ya on the $ wasted thing. That's the bad thing about forums. When we read many good things, and think oh, it must be better. Sometimes it turns out it just isn't for us, as many things in this life aren't

    I say sell it to one who wants to try FFP or knows they prefer it. AO is important in ranging. If you always shoot on the same magnification, no need for it. Especially like me, I never go over 10X on any shooting. I may use a higher setting to see the holes I've shot but higher power just makes me jump around more trying to over correct my movements. I find I do exceedingly well on 4 to 6 power. Good luck.

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    crittahitta
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    Thanks guys. Thanks michael, that is good advice and i will try it. 

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    steve-l
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    nervoustrig

    I can barely see something like a house sparrow or chipmunk at 60 yards.  It would be quite a thing to behold someone greasing one with open sights, even a good aperture sight zeroed at that distance, not to mention if holdover is necessary.  Remember, with an airgun, it’s not just enough to make contact.  It has to be in a very small kill zone. 

    I understand, but with practice open sights work surprisingly well. Primary use will be under 25 yard pesting. In this application, fast acquisition, off hand unsupported, fast shooting, nothing is better. It is all about practice though. When I was younger, I competed in pistol metallic silhouette. This competition required open sights with side silhouettes of chickens at 50 meters, pigs at 100 meters, turkeys at 150 meters and rams at 200 meters. The hits did not count unless the targets fell, so small calibers or light loads need not apply. My point being, open sights do work well.

    On an earlier thread I mentioned my requirement for a pistol like the Thomson Contender. I ended up with a Artemis PP700S-A. I then bought a adjustable CZ rear sight, milled a matching dovetail in the PP700 frame and then made a mating front sight. As soon as I started shooting in the sights, the regulator gave up, so the gun has gone back to the distributor for repair last week. When it comes back, I'll take some pictures and post them here.

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