Royale reg malfunctioning?

Forums PCP Airguns Royale reg malfunctioning?

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Hi all,

    Sadly, having just been helped out amazingly with a leak on my 400 by the awesome guys that populate this forum, I am back!  with another issue… )-:  and seeing as it seems to be signifcantly different I have started a new thread.

    Those of you who helped me before may remember that I had a slow leak and then ended up with fast one from a damaged oring on the reg.  SO anyway no leak since then which is very cool – but then the not so cool thing that’s happened since :

    With the reg out to replace the oring I thought I would tighten the belville washers down a 1/4 turn to get the fps up a bit from 860 with 18gr JSB that it was set at.  Having marked the starting point of the lock nut relative to the body and knurled brass ring with a sharpie, I first turned the locking nut without holding the allen key in but realised this was wrong so turned that back (don’t know if that is significant) then did it again with the allen key holding the inside part still.  I didn’t have much time so quickly put a few shots over the chrono – result was all around 895-900, perfect I thought!

    Then after trawling the forum for royale related stuff, got myself an HW100 reg tester that fits in the M6 stock bolt as suggested in a post by Wetherby – great tip thank you!  This is where things went a bit different. 

    So I fitted the reg tester manometer in place of the stock bolt and started filling, now I’ve never tested a reg before but from my very basic understanding of it I expected the pressure on the gun’s manometer and the reg tester’s to increase together until the reg reached its pressure and then for the tester one to stop on the set pressure of the reg, which as I undersatnd should be somewhere asound the 140bar region… this may be completely wrong of course.  Anyway what did happen was that the pressure showed by the reg tester carried on going up to 200bar at which point I thought something was not right.

    I put everything back as normal and refilled to 200bar then tested the power, first shot came out at 920fps!!! then shot by shot the velocity dropped until it was well below 900 in about 30 shots… I removed the reg again and set it back to the original mark to see if my adjustment had messed things up and filled to 200bar, this time I recorded how the string went:

    930
    930
    920
    930
    915
    900
    902
    899
    899
    895
    892
    886
    885
    880
    880
    874
    872

    Then thought I would save my pellets…

    Is the reg doing anything at all here?

    Once again, really appreciate guidance here – thank you in advance!

    Asa.
     

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    Paulcat
    Participant
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    60fps spread sounds like the regulator is doing the opposite.Why change the setting on the reg first if you are wanting more FPS.Why not adjust the HST first? Or have you already tried the HST and maxed out?

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    weatherby
    Participant
    Member

    Hey Asa☺

    Your reg’s belleville washers are compressed way too much, hence the reg. pressure is too high.
    Your gun acts like a non-regulated one now, because the regulator is open all the time.
    No harm done, back off the locknut a quarter of a turn while holding the brass piston with a allen key, and measure reg. pressure again.
    When it is too low,  work your way up again with very small increments, something like 1/16th of a turn.
    Measure reg pressure after every adjustment, and you’re good to go again. About 145 bar and your speed will be just fine I suppose☺
    Don’t forget to readjust your hammer spring tension, that is very important to get the desired result.

    good luck,

    Gijs

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    dreuf
    Participant
    Member

    Weatherby is right on.

    I would just add 1 thing:
    – if you have unscrewed a bit the brass part (to correct your first mistake) check that it is not way too much now. The brass position set up the piston travel. So if it is longer than before it means you will need more pressure to close the reg. Additionaly you can also damage one of the piston oring (it can be crushed in the reg vent hole).
    If everyting is ok you should not see the black oring trough the reg venthole (you will need good light and eyes)

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    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

    Reg is not working. You need to adjust the settings of reg to make it work again. It’s just like unregulated right now

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks guys – Every day is a school day… and I guess my learning curve has not plateaued yet!! Lol! ((-;

    So starting at my original marks ie: factory setting (although it could have got out of synch but I am pretty sure I reversed everything as I had done it) see photo, I loosened the end nut by 1/16 of a turn (see photo) whilst holding the centre still with the allen key and tested it.  Once again the reg tester guage went up with the gun guage to 165 where I stopped filling.  On firing it showed the same pattern of rapid dropping of velocity shot by shot, ie: no change.

    I then loosened the nut again whilst holding the centre with the allen key, but this time went to a total of 1/4 of a turn out from where I think it was before I adjusted at all in the hope that this would engage the reg but still the same result.

    Shall I go further out? or could the reg be stuck open somehow?

    Dreuf, when you say “unscrewed the brass part” would that have been as a result of turning the nut on the BV washers without holding the centre with an allen key? as that is all I did, I haven’t touched the knurled brass ring bit. Anyway, I think I could see in the vent hole (assuming you meant the small one drilled into the side of the body of the reg) and as far as I could see it looked brass coloured not black but can’t be 100% sure.

    Thanks,
    Asa

     

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Forgot the pics:



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    weatherby
    Participant
    Member

    Don’t bother about the vent port and the knurled part :)

    The knurled part is glued with loctite, just leave it as is. The intention is to lower the pressure on the belleville washers, thus lowering the reg pressure (less spring force means the piston can travel forward with a lower air pressure)
    Hold the piston shaft with an allen key, and rotate the nyloc nut 1/4th of a turn anti-clockwise (apparently you did already)
    Turning the nyloc nut counter clockwise lowers the pressure, clockwise increases pressure. (when looking at it at the side where the belleville washers sit;-)
    Re-instal reg, and measure pressure.
    Repeat steps until you have reached the desired reg pressure. I rather start low, and work my way up until the desired reg pressure is reached.
    Dont forget to put back the loose belleville washer when you have put the regulator back in the action block to hold the regulator body in place.

    By the way, if you want to make markings for tracking your adjustments, mark the nut and the inner hex of the regulator piston (where you put in the allen key ;) )
    The parts you have marked now can rotate, so it unfortunately is not usable to control your adjustments.
     

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks for coming back so quick Gijs – v much apprecaitated.

     I’ll go for another 1/4 turn ccw with inner hex held.  I was starting to suspect my markings were not telling me much…

    One other thing here: With the reg testing manometer fitted, as I fill the bottle should it stop showing an increase in pressure at a certain point relative to thte gun’s guage, and that will tell me the pressure the reg is set at?  And that for 890-900fps with JSB 18gr I want to get to 145bar (or is this dependent on other factors in the individual rifle)?

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    dreuf
    Participant
    Member

    Yes the reg mano will show your regged pressure so it will stop increasing and the bottle manometer will still go on.

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Cool, thanks dreuf.

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Hi guys,

    so I’ve loosened the nyloc nut out a 1/4 turn at a time a few times now, testing each time and the reg tester manometer is still going over 160bar… the bv washers are now visibly loose so I see no point going out any further.

    Any ideas?

     

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    weatherby
    Participant
    Member

    Whew, this issue is getting more complicated :)
    When the BV washers are almost completely loose, it seems like your delrin regulator piston cannot seal on the brass nozzle on the other end of the reg.

    Have you by any chance turned out the “nozzle with the 2 pin holes” on the opposite side out as well? I case you did, turn it in until it is hand tight, and try if the regulator responds again.
    It should read a very low pressure value with the BV washers almost completely loose. Good luck and don’t give up! :)

     

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks for the encouragement – I feel like I’m being a right pain in the A…

    Just tried it with the brass nozzle bit backed off to finger tight and the nyloc nut finger tight too but the tester guage still goes up to 160bar.

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    weatherby
    Participant
    Member

    Naaaah, you are certainly not :) We’re here to help.
    I meant to tighten the nozzle instead of loosing it ;) Good thing, now you have another chance hahaha :)

    When you turn in the nozzle, the nose of the nozzle will move towards the delrin piston seal inside the reg. so the piston has less movement before sealing the airflow.

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    Asa-J
    Participant
    Member

    DUUDE!!

    It appears you’ve cracked it!

    Took a while and a lot of air but I think it’s worked…

    As you see 145bar gave an ave speed, over only a handful of shots (low on air), of 870, then another 1/8 turn in and it’s 893 over a few shots exactly where I wanted it.  I’ll try and get the tank filled tomorrow and do a full string to make sure.

    Gijs I am so grateful, and you are a true gent.

     

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    weatherby
    Participant
    Member

    Cheers mate, glad you’ve got it sorted☺
    When you play around with the hammer spring tension with the reg set at 145b, you might gain even more speed. Same goes here, start low, and work your way up until the speed doesn’t increase anymore at the chosen reg. setting.
    It’s all about the balance between reg pressure and H.S.T.
    Mine is shooting over 900fps at 145b with very little hammer spring tension. Makes it very easy to cock.
    Great guns to tune for sure. They do have their secrets and niggles but man, they shoot like a dream ☺

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