Red Wolf Standard with G2 board

[Franklink]

As I stated in the BSA Gold Star review concluding post, the next rifle to go through the process will be a Red Wolf in .22, second generation electronics. It is a non-High Power version but has the board that I believe is going into the Safari and HP versions (I think it's just different settings for the even higher power output of those guns). 

AOA website currently has the Red Wolf Standard Walnut listed for $2399.99. 

I've got chrono numbers for power output with various pellets and slugs at each power level, with the as-shipped settings. I'll get to that, but the sneak-peak version is that the gun is putting out around 28% more power on HI than the specs for the Standard with the earlier board. Pretty impressive to see how much better that extra power does for resisting wind deflection (like going from needing two inches of windage at 53 yards on LOW power, to nearly none on HIGH, in 20-30mph winds). 

When this idea was hatched, this is not the gun I envisioned reviewing, both in power level, or market segment. I'll share more in a future post about this particular gun and how it ended up at the self-professed sub 20fpe aficionado's house (me). There is a provision for that though, a lent programmer was procured from a friend and I have high hopes of getting the LOW power setting at just a hair under 20fpe with the JSB 13.34 or perhaps 14.3grainers. It'll get shot at a FT match at some point this summer, .22 handicap and all. Full report on the work-up and how it does at the match will eventually make it's way here. 

Picture Dump 

Initially took this one in front of the Alligator juniper firewood stack. When I looked at the resulting pic, I realized that the handsome walnut stock was about the same color as the sun-bleached juniper.

So, I took this one in front of the oak stack. Much better! Quite the classy aesthetic on these walnut RWs. I'd peg the laminate as flashy, but I've gotta go with classy when describing the walnut version. 

Real carbon fiber shroud.

0.48liter tank (480cc) hard to see it because of bottle orientation, but it's right under the shroud

17 inch barrel, shroud is about 3 inches longer than the barrel. There appear to be some baffles in there. This is a functional shroud, as it's quite a bit quieter than expected for the power level, even without a moderator added.

Overall length = 38.5 inches.

42.25 inches with Donny Tatsu

45.25 with Hogan Decimeater

Battery compartment

Magnetic dust cover and fill port

Thread protector

Biathlon type cocking lever

More stock pics (nice stippling panels on the grip)

 

AOA care package (yes, some pellets and a NSA slug sampler were provided for this review-scope/rings/additional pellets/all other gear is on my dime-full disclosure and all)

I've shot it quite a bit so far, and I like it!!! But this is what I've been dealing with.....

Literally kite flying weather. This was taken between a couple shooting sessions with the RW today. 20-30mph winds make it hard to do any sort of baseline accuracy testing. 

This is the cherry picked, best group I've been able to muster in the wind so far.

5 shots with the 25.39gr JSB Redesigns at 53 yards. I held about 1/2 inch upwind and didn't need to-seriously gusting to 29mph while this was shot. Black circle measures one inch. I didn't put any calipers on it, but with a ruler it looks to be just a hair less than 3/8inch ctc. If my math is right, a 3/8inch group at 53 yards would be 0.6757 MOA, so this group is slightly less than that. Not bad. Not bad at all. 

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Thanks for the post and pics. I think the walnut stock (especially yours) looks classy also.

 

[SorenDrost]

Very nice setup and a beautiful stock 

 

[mmahoney]

I'm looking forward to reading more!

 

[LFCM]

Excellent rifle with very nice wood and good accuracy. What else could anyone desire?

 

[Corvid_hunter]

I don't understand why these rifles aren't more popular than they are. I'm guessing it's the lack of a bull pup configuration, which will be remedied soon.

 

[Smok3y]

I don't understand why these rifles aren't more popular than they are. I'm guessing it's the lack of a bull pup configuration, which will be remedied soon.

I think the price is probably number 1 why it isn't more popular, but to each their own. Also, they do have a bull pup... The Pulsar is the bull pup version of the Red Wolf. I have owned the Red Wolf and loved it. I was considering getting another, but have gone with the Pulsar considering the massive price drop they have this year.

 

[Springrrrr]

I don't understand why these rifles aren't more popular than they are. I'm guessing it's the lack of a bull pup configuration, which will be remedied soon.

They are overpriced by a bit. Just got mine today and my wallet, in my back pocket, is so light I am floating around the room.
Another thing is that they are not super duper adjustable like many of the FX's are.

That kind of reminds me of my many golfing friends who buy a $500-$600 driver that can be adjusted every which way and set it to the neutral setting. I can't say for sure, but I would like to know how many FX'ers get the adjustable ones and keep it to the factory settings and rarely if ever change them.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

I don't understand why these rifles aren't more popular than they are. I'm guessing it's the lack of a bull pup configuration, which will be remedied soon.

They are overpriced by a bit. Just got mine today and my wallet, in my back pocket, is so light I am floating around the room.
Another thing is that they are not super duper adjustable like many of the FX's are.

That kind of reminds me of my many golfing friends who buy a $500-$600 driver that can be adjusted every which way and set it to the neutral setting. I can't say for sure, but I would like to know how many FX'ers get the adjustable ones and keep it to the factory settings and rarely if ever change them.

I want a rifle that I can grab and shoot, just like my powder burners. I don't want to tinker, chase leaks or worry about POI shifts when I want to go out. That's why I bought my Red Wolf .177cal. I'm very impressed with my limited amount of shooting so far and am glad I choose it over the Impact I was going to buy.

 

[Macros]

I don't understand why these rifles aren't more popular than they are. I'm guessing it's the lack of a bull pup configuration, which will be remedied soon.

They are overpriced by a bit. Just got mine today and my wallet, in my back pocket, is so light I am floating around the room.
Another thing is that they are not super duper adjustable like many of the FX's are.

That kind of reminds me of my many golfing friends who buy a $500-$600 driver that can be adjusted every which way and set it to the neutral setting. I can't say for sure, but I would like to know how many FX'ers get the adjustable ones and keep it to the factory settings and rarely if ever change them.

I want a rifle that I can grab and shoot, just like my powder burners. I don't want to tinker, chase leaks or worry about POI shifts when I want to go out. That's why I bought my Red Wolf .177cal. I'm very impressed with my limited amount of shooting so far and am glad I choose it over the Impact I was going to buy.

I'm the same. The red wolf is worth every penny to me.

Had a crown and impact along with several daystates.

The FX's are great guns but I always found myself tinkering and chasing that performance 'unicorn', never quite able to consistently match what my daystates would do from word go. I'd get there for a while, then suddenly either a bump would bugger up poi, or suddenly the settings would creep up or down a bit resulting in a small but noticeable or sometimes not so small reduction in accuracy and consistency. Problem I've found with the analogue settings is its very hard to simply go back to where you were too, basically requiring a retune Lol maybe I just suck at it

To be fair I did have the mag issue with the red wolf but that was sorted by getting CARM mags which are like the sst accuracy wise.

Anyways the FX'S are sold to happy buyers and one day in the distant future I'll have a delta to go with my absolutely exceptional red wolf

 

[Arzrover]

Nice intro, Franklink! Looking forward to your review.

@Macros..... VERY nice stock!

Bob

 

[nomojo65]

Beautiful guns! Also looking forward to your review! The best detailed and honest reviews yet!

 

[Macros]

Nice intro, Franklink! Looking forward to your review.

@Macros..... VERY nice stock!

Bob

Thanks!

I don't often win anything, but the stock lottery definitely worked out for me this time

 

[Franklink]

Beautiful guns! Also looking forward to your review! The best detailed and honest reviews yet!

Thank you sir, I consider that a huge compliment. I want people to have a real-world view of a gun's performance. As such, I'm willing to post things like ten shot groups. On that note, an upcoming report on the RW has a very interesting comparison of 12, 10 shot groups (120 consecutive shots on one page) vs 12, 5 shot groups (60 consecutive shots on one page), all at 53 yards and in quite similar conditions-same pellet, same power setting, etc. 

Nice intro, Franklink! Looking forward to your review.

@Macros..... VERY nice stock!

Bob

Thanks!

I don't often win anything, but the stock lottery definitely worked out for me this time

Macros, some really nice figure in that stock! As far as the lottery, while yours is a standout, it seems that many of these walnut RWs have lumber on the better end of the spectrum. Thanks for sharing pics of yours. 

 

[Franklink]

Every gun has a story.......

The story of how this RW review came to be (and some history and details about this specific gun)…….


A few weeks ago I was talking with my AOA contact and was told that they’d really like me to do a review of a Red Wolf next. I thought to myself, “oh cool, that sounds good,” very different gun than the BSA that I was currently working with. At the time I just assumed that the RW would be a .177 Standard version, since they know that I really enjoy Field Target and that I typically gravitate towards the sub 20 fpe range of power output. I was also envisioning the glossy red and black laminate, cuz you know, that’s where all of our minds go when we think “Daystate Red Wolf.”


Fast forward a couple weeks. I was pondering on this RW review situation and had a wild idea, “I wonder what kind of energies the .22 Standard does?” The idea in the back of my mind was that if Low power was under 20fpe, it could be shot in FT, and then used at either Medium or High power for long range target and pesting. The concept of, “if only one gun…” comes up on the forums every so often, and there’s obviously a lot of appeal to the idea of having one gun, the jack-of-all-trades sort of gun that is enough of a chameleon to fill a couple niches. Although compromises must be made in this scenario, in this case, the .22 in FT is a handicap…… Anyway, I was brainstorming an approach to take with the (at the time) upcoming RW review.


So I did what I often do when I have ANY airgun-related question, I texted a good friend who has been hooked on airguns, HARD, for something like 4 or 5 decades and really knows his stuff. I mean machining barrels and parts, and capable of fixing some of the really exotic airguns. He also happens to be part of the Daystate Accuracy Research Team. For anyone unaware (I snagged this description off a blog on the AOA website), “ART is a Daystate team guided by strict approval and testing protocols. Its role is to improve, wherever possible, the accuracy and performance of Daystate's products and to do it with passion!” My friend has always been somewhat vague in the specifics, due to the proprietary nature of the subject matter, but it’s clear to me that they have spent hours and hours and hours shooting various projectiles in various scenarios with various changes made to the barrels supplied by LW. My assumption is that they’ve played with twist rates, level of choke, leads, etc,-basically every variation possible. Suffice it to say that the LW barrels that are installed into Daystate guns at the factory are most definitely not the same LW barrel that any random Joe can buy from LW as a blank. I was invited to one of their testing sessions at a third mutual friend’s (John) house about a year ago. If I remember correctly, there were three Daystates being shot that day, a RW HP .22, a .25 Safari, and a .30 Safari. Winds were probably in the 20-25mph range that day. My assumption (again) is that they were testing how each caliber compares in the wind, but I’m not privy to any factual information about the goal of the day or details on the barrels in each gun. What I do know, is that LOTS of pellets were shot, at paper, and at steel, at CRAZY (for diabolo projectile) ranges. I think I remember the furthest that we were shooting was 191 yards, and putting them pretty close to where we wanted them to go, often. We shot for most of the day and used a lot of air. I understand that they do this once a week, most weeks. Very fun, and a truly eye-opening experience into the tremendous time and effort behind the performance these top tier guns are capable of. 


(Sorry about the slight detour, but it’ll make sense in a minute).


So, I texted my buddy last Wednesday, “Hey what fpe do the Standard .22 RWs do on Low?” and finished the text with the idea of a multiple trick pony gun. He typically gets back to me pretty quickly but I didn’t hear from him until that evening. His response, “Lol.... it's interesting that you posed that thought. We were shooting a Standard with a G2 board today. Has a small, short barrel, standard rifling, etc., etc.” He proceeded to tell me how it had performed and, frankly, it sounded pretty awesome. I’d forgotten that Wednesday’s are the day they go to John’s and do ART testing, as well as just generally have loads of fun shooting. So the delay in response time was because he was actually shooting a gun with the very same specs that I had asked him about! He also let me know that it would be a little too hot in standard form to be under the 20fpe limit. 

The next day this ART friend texted and said he’d talked to AOA and they wanted him to forward on that RW they had been shooting to me as the review gun. He let me borrow his programmer, but we decided I’d like to get some baseline performance data before adjusting the power levels. 


My AOA contact called me a couple hours after I had received the RW and asked how it was shooting. Well, right when he called, I was swapping scopes and mounts around trying to get it scoped, and hadn’t shot it yet. He said to call him back in a few hours after I shot it a bit. I got it scoped with enough daylight left to shoot for a bit. I was thoroughly impressed. When I called him back I asked, okay, “What’s the story on this gun, is it something special, what’d you guys do to it?” He replied that, a few weeks ago, they wanted to know what kind of shot count the Standards were getting with the new G2 board, so, it was simply taken off the shelf (where it had been stocked with all the other Red Wolf Standards). He asked if I had seen the Facebook post, and that that was done during chrono testing with this particular gun. Furthermore he said they took it out of the stacks of boxed guns on the shelf, cleaned the barrel and made a couple passes with some JB bore paste. In short, a stock gun that was just as destined to make it to a buying customer as it was to make it to the chrono tests, the ART testing, or to me to review. 

Here's the chrono pic I stole from AOA facebook page (shot from this same gun I'm reviewing). I was told it was shot in a very wind protected area, but impressive none-the-less. 

I wanted to share all of that to establish the fact this gun I am reviewing is a run-of-the-mill, normal, oem, stock gun. It turned into a demo gun (my description) simply because it was on top of the stack when the AOA employees decided to do some chrono testing. I suspect it ended up at John’s with my ART testing buddy, primarily because it was no longer a new gun and could not be sold as such. And it ended up with me for precisely the same reason that it ended up being shot at John’s. It has not been rebarreled, or tuned, or tinkered with for optimization. I do still plan on tuning the Low power down to sub 20, but so far, the only difference is that the barrel got a good cleaning.

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Thanks for the background info. I'm looking forward to the rest of the story.

 

[Franklink]

Chronograph #s

These are with the factory programming and should represent about what can be expected from the Standard RWs with G2 board, with the understanding that every gun is slightly different so there could be minor differences from one specimen to the next. I haven't changed any of the programming yet. 

I'll post up all three power levels first (for easier comparison) and then explain my tables and share my thoughts on them. 

Yellow highlighted items are what I picked as the most promising projectile for that power level, based on what I was seeing with accuracy and among the tested pellets/slugs. I only tested reasonable weight pellets for the power level (ie, no 13.43gr JSBs on HIGH). 

Analysis

Probably the biggest takeaway here is that the Standard, on HIGH, is doing almost 45fpe with the 25gr JSBs. My ART friend is telling me they were getting 47fpe, I'm guessing that was with a Labradar since I know they use that a lot in their testing. So, the 47fpe from the Labradar is likely more accurate fps measurements than my old fashioned red Chrony. The previous generation of RW Standards were listed as 35fpe max output in .22. That extra 10-12fpe is a big step up when shooting long-range, or trying to buck the wind. It also gets the Standard RW into slug territory, light slugs, but slugs nonetheless. In other words, we're seeing a 28-30% increase in max power output from the Standard RW, simply because of the capabilities of the new board that was developed for the HP version. That's big. 

So, Low = about 30 fpe, Medium = about 38fpe, and High =about 45fpe. Energy output on Medium with the new board is higher than what High produced with the old board. 

That is pretty decent fpe for a gun that isn't advertised, nor really intended to be a high power monster, and at only 38.5 inches without a moderator....that's a pretty sweet little package for a non-bullpup rifle. 

The flip side of the coin with the increased power is that the lighter .22 pellets are not an option, at least with the factory settings. Pellet weight for Low power starts at about 15.89 grains (and even that seems a little faster than the tight-waisted pellet designs typically seem to prefer). Medium and High need some pretty heavyweight stuff, at least heavy for projectiles in the typical non-HP realm. Even the 18.1s on Medium are going a little too fast.

On Low, NSA 23gr lose about 25% of fpe (when compared to JSB 18.1) likely from increased bearing surface of slugs vs pellets.

On high, NSA 23gr only losing about 15% of fpe(compared to JSB 25.39). Power and fpe lost to friction with the slugs seem to be an inversely proportional relationship (as power goes up, the % of fpe lost goes down). Basically, slugs like to go fast. 

Early attempts at accuracy assessment and pellet selection

Here's a pic of a pretty busy page that was shot @ 53 yards during the fps data-gathering...

The above groups were shot mostly with the intent of gathering the baseline fpe from the gun, but I was also kinda shooting groups, just not pushing myself to get really tiny little groups. 

Weather conditions for the above messy groups...

You can see that the wind was keeping any serious accuracy testing from being possible. 25-30mph gusts make pellet shooting tough. 

A little bit of a tangent

These ART guys have brought to my attention that my home range situation of shooting from the indoors to the outdoors is a very destablizing scenario for a projectile. In their testing, they paid for a couple months of membership at an indoor 100 yard range with the idea of gathering data on the wind effect, theory being that no wind indoors should make tiny little bughole groups. WRONG. They found that it was harder to achieve sub moa on an indoor range than an outdoor one. They hypothesized that there were possibly layers of settled air that the pellets were traversing on their way down range. As the normal trajectory curve goes up and then comes back down, it was thought that it was having to cross all those barriers between each temp/air density layer. Since the air is calmer inside than outside, there is never enough air movement to disrupt those settled layers and create a more consistent medium (air) for the projectiles to pass through. One of them later received some validation from the Berger company at some sort of big industry event (think SHOT show). The Berger bullet company employee said that they had seen the same thing when testing firearm projectiles indoors. The ART guys also thought that downdrafts and updrafts from HVAC systems running and/or switching on and off could be wreaking havoc on their data. So, back to my humble little home range. On top of the still and possibly horizontally settled layers in the indoor section of the pellets path, I'm also basically shooting into a vertical wall of warmer, thermally influenced air and wind about 12 yards downrange from the end of the gun, when it hits the outside environment. I also cannot feel the individual upticks and downswings in shifting wind currents because I'm inside. So, when I'm shooting from indoors to out, especially when it is windy, there are a lot of details about the situation that make it less than ideal for supreme accuracy measurements. This is a lot of next-level stuff for me, as my usual shooting (Field Target, target practice in the backyard, and pesting) simply doesn't require the precision these guys are striving for. 

Analysis of the messy page above

• In the upper left groups you'll see that I was trying out the 15.89gr pellets on Medium. For over 1000fps, I was really surprised to see the 5 shot groups held together pretty good. Later on (bottom middle) I came back to the 15.89gr non-Hades. I was curious if the group would hold together for ten shots. It would not, and there were flyers (as expected for this pellet at that speed). Just a small visual of how much more information 10 shot groups give us. I did this same thing with the 18.1gr JSB on Medium. The first 18.1 group was 5 shots (just under the first 5 shot 15.89gr group). It wasn't too great and only got worse when I repeated the same pellet on Medium for a ten shot group down in the bottom right. 
• The upper right 5 shot group of 25.39 on High was pretty good.
• The NSA 17.5s on Medium just below and to the left of the 5 shot 25.39 group also showed some promise. 
• The Baracudas looked pretty good on High and Medium. 

Continued initial accuracy testing

(black circles on these next three pages of groups are 1 inch)

Low power. A little more serious accuracy testing here but still fighting 15-25mph winds when this was shot. JSB 15.89 in the left column and 18.1s in the middle column. 53 yards.

Medium power. Same as above, trying a little harder for accuracy but shot at the same time, so 15-25mph winds. Baracudas vs NSA 17.5s. I used the last of the 12 NSA 17.5s so just put them into one group. 53 yards.

High power here. Left and middle columns were 5 shot groups of 25.39. Right column was NSA 23gr.

Conclusions

• Barracudas do pretty well on Medium and High
• 17.5gr NSA slugs on Medium have enough promise that I'm considering ordering some more
• The 23gr NSA did better than they look like they did on High (lots of pulled shots and mistimed trigger breaks as I figure out how to shoot this gun)
• The 23gr NSA are still a little slow, I think, for seeing the big benefits that can come from slugs 
• There is likely a slug weight between 17.5 and 23 that would be more optimal for High power
  • This will likely be investigated more completely during my time with the gun
• Very cool to see how much less windage is needed for 45fpe, and orders of magnitude cooler yet again to see how little windage is needed for those slugs.
• There is a lot of operator error here. (I'll go into more depth on this in a future post, but for now, I'm not yet used to this power, or this electronic trigger/gun. Gun is crazy accurate and the trigger is sublime, I've just had to learn how it wants to be shot.)
• I've since shot some much better groups than what are shown on these first posted groups. These were posted to stay inline with my intent of presenting a fully transparent view of my experience with and the simple figuring out of, a new-to-me gun.
• Those pics of better groups are coming. 
• Right now I'm thinking that optimal (for my preferences) power levels would be:
  • Low-right under 20fpe with whichever of the two lowest JSB weights it shoots best within that fps range.
  • Medium-right where factory Low currently is, or maybe slightly less than current Low)
  • High-Right where it currently is (the 25.39 could use some more speed, even on High, but the barrel is only 17 inches long, any more power and I think it's going to turn into a wasted air/loud report situation). 

 

[Corvid_hunter]

Although I'm probably wrong, it looks like the only real difference between the model you have and the HP version is the polygonal barrel on the HP version. It looks like they both have the 2.0 board, so the power numbers should be the same?

 

[Franklink]

Barrel length. That extra length on the HP should really help with fps, on the high end power levels. 

 

[steve123]

Franklink, I shot that rifle at our Bud's place last week. At 50Y I think I shot my smallest group ever - on a 1.25" spinner. The first shot hit the edge of it, I compensated, and the next 5 were basically the same splat which wasn't really enlarged from the first. A great moment, I'll always remember that one!

At 75Y it only took 4 extra shots to hit all the steel on the KYL rack, IIRC the 2nd smallest is 1/2", the smallest being 1/4". Windage required was an inch or so of holdoff.

Also at 100Y a couple groups were sub 1" vertical and not much wider - wind.

I was impressed!

If you get a calm day I think you'll freak out a little. BTW that was good shooting you did in those winds!

Our Bud was telling me that he'll run across a tin or batch of pellets that shoot better than another. This could very well be a determining factor in what this RW is capable of. 

I was at that indoor shooting range at least one time helping with the testing (although I'm not part of the ART team) and I can definitely testify of the oddness of not being able to shoot better groups than I thought we should have been???? Heck I was shooting off a Edgewood rear bag, Farley joystick front rest, and prone off the concrete.