RAW REPORT

Forums General Discussion RAW REPORT

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    terrymc
    Participant
    Member

    Hi Dennis,

    You are in the right place for a tuner Mark Buchanan lives here in Az. I will PM you info.

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    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

    Dear Friends ,

    I leaned that A Zasanday puts O ring sealing seystem in breach of many Theoben Rapid guns.

    I am always a fan of breach sealing by means of O ring. If this system is designed with due care, it provides 100% sealing without any efforts to close the side levers or bolt actions.

    I am only aware of Theoben Rapid and RAW guns that use matel to matel sealing for breach end.

    I developed an indexable TP and this time with a grove for O ring inside the bore of TP.

    Redesigned the probe also. It's not taper now rather it has a slight edge that sits on the face of the breach end.

    Now I have kept very low pressure on the cocking cam of the gun.

    Now the side liver closes as easily as of FX Royale series guns.  Still my HM1000X is sealing perfectly rather even better than before and is butter smooth.

    Some pics are here for your interest.

    Regards, 

    Umair Bhaur 

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    SMH77
    Participant
    Member

    Very interesting and noce job Umair!  Thanks for sharing the information with us!  

    What made you decide to do that modification?  Aside from breech closing effort, what other differences have you noticed with the seal in place?

    Sean

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    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

    SMH77

    Very interesting and noce job Umair!  Thanks for sharing the information with us!  

    What made you decide to do that modification?  Aside from breech closing effort, what other differences have you noticed with the seal in place?

    Sean

    Dear Sean,

    In fact I have repaired a few Theoben Rapid guns in the past and inspected well the material used in the cocking bolt and the side plate where the cocking bolt is locked.  I found that both the materials were very high quality and highly resistant to wear and tear even in the extreme use.

    Still I found one such Rapid that used to give the blow from the breach at the time when shot goes off.

    I had to put a lot of effort to resurface the tapered area of probe as well as probe seating cavity in the breach.

    Still I had to adjust the probe a bit hard to lock any escaping air.

    Since then I had planned that if nothing worked, I would modify the Rapid and install O ring inside the barrel.

    I never did it to that Rapid. But when my RAW came I noticed that it had the same sealing mechanism but it also had a cam on the function of cocking lever that gives a slight sound of click while closing under pressure. 

    Cam is such a thing that may wear and tear with the passage of time.

    Further I did not like the feeling of a bit hard closing effort of cocking lever since I was used to fx guns in the past.

    I have worked on Cricket,  HW100 and many more brands but almost all used O ring for secure air sealing.

    Now the benefit that I get by installing the O ring system is that the effort of closing the cocking lever is almost 5% as compared to when it was in original set up. 

    This highly reduced closing effort and inevitably translates into 95% less wear and tear in the cam of the cocking system. 

    I am witness that such O ring system if installed with correct tolerances does not affect accuracy at all and seals perfectly.  Also in a good developed O ring system the O ring lasts at least a couple of thousand shots without any problem.  Replacement of O ring is very easy.

    So the gun became less prone to wear and tear and more consistent in fps and more convenient in use.

    I just shot a 5 shot group at 114 yards with this system installed with jsb 18.13 grain at 950fps and the group size is 1".  I didn't use bench rest for this group rather just from the roof of my car.

    Best regards, 

    Umair Bhaur 

     

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    SMH77
    Participant
    Member

    Great info once again-thanks Umair!  That's an excellent result for that distance of shooting-great job!

     

    Sean

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    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

    Dear Friends, 

    There is a good news.

    I have communicated with HUMA.

    They are in the process of developing regulators for RAW guns.

    These regulators are expected to be more efficient than OEM regulators.

    Though RAW regulators are very good but if I can get better, it's great.

    Regards, 

    Umair Bhaur 

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    Motorhead
    Participant
    Member

    mubhaur

    Dear Friends, 

    There is a good news.

    I have communicated with HUMA.

    They are in the process of developing regulators for RAW guns.

    These regulators are expected to be more efficient than OEM regulators.

    Though RAW regulators are very good but if I can get better, it's great.

    Regards, 

    Umair Bhaur 

    Simply replacing the OEM RAW Spools reg seat with PEEK replaceing the Acetal seat is a HUGE improvement …. Interesting to see what HuMa comes up with ?

    Link

    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

     

     

     

     

    Here is some more work. I not only converted my .22 HM1000X  but also  .25 60ftlb into O ring breach system.

    Both works butter smooth with perfect sealing. 

    As you see that for my 50 ftlb .22, I made a capsule shaped TP hole.

    Also put O rings on outer dia of 60 ftlb .25 original barrel. 

    This is 10 shots group of today  .22  25 grain redesigned pellets at 935fps in open area and 16km wind at 60 yards. 

    Later an other group of which I didn't take the pic was not more than quarter inch at 60 yards with  .22  25 grain redesigned pellets. 

    Regards, 

    Umair Bhaur 

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    zx10wall
    Participant
    Member

    Great job Umair. I really like your thinking. If you have a spare vintage BSA barrel let me know 😁. I’ll worry with shipping you just need to let it come my way. 

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    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

    zx10wall

    Great job Umair. I really like your thinking. If you have a spare vintage BSA barrel let me know 😁. I’ll worry with shipping you just need to let it come my way. 

    I would love to arrange one for you but it's not available in my country.  Some people in UK have a few of these.

    These are sold at premium price as Dutch people love these barrels in their 100 meter indoor competition. 

    Regards 

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    zx10wall
    Participant
    Member

    I've noticed that as well. There are a ton of Dutch shooters that do very well with the .25 BSA Lonestar.

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    rigbymauser
    Participant
    Member

    Hey folks.

    I am new kid on the block here but not new to guns.

    I have been an airgunners for many years but have had a "break" from the airgun-scene for some 8-9 years. 

     

    I have decided again to get into airguns and have made up my mind get buy a RAW.  Daystate are nice, FX are nice and so many other,  but I want the RAW.

    I have watch YouTube and read pages up and down here and other places to get as much intell as possible in regards to RAW. I do however have some issues.

     

    I have a great diificulty in seeing why some one can make aftermarked products to make improvements on an already highend  airgun. That goes from O-rings to silencer. If I buy a new gun from Holland & Holland  I don't send lt to a bubbagunsmith for improvements…Do I?.

    I will wait to a new gen of RAW  comes out. I have read here Huma regulator might be one of the things. Other features could be a real silencer, quick detachable, with sub 70 db. Adjustable regulator, quick detachable barrel and so on. Maybe now when they have joint in with TexasAirforce airguns something new will happen. I want the best and not a gun where some after marked products must be apllied for improvements.  Now…hurl the stones .. Lol 

    Link

    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

    rigbymauser

    Hey folks.

    I am new kid on the block here but not new to guns.

    I have been an airgunners for many years but have had a "break" from the airgun-scene for some 8-9 years. 

     

    I have decided again to get into airguns and have made up my mind get buy a RAW.  Daystate are nice, FX are nice and so many other,  but I want the RAW.

    I have watch YouTube and read pages up and down here and other places to get as much intell as possible in regards to RAW. I do however have some issues.

     

    I have a great diificulty in seeing why some one can make aftermarked products to make improvements on an already highend  airgun. That goes from O-rings to silencer. If I buy a new gun from Holland & Holland  I don't send lt to a bubbagunsmith for improvements…Do I?.

    I will wait to a new gen of RAW  comes out. I have read here Huma regulator might be one of the things. Other features could be a real silencer, quick detachable, with sub 70 db. Adjustable regulator, quick detachable barrel and so on. Maybe now when they have joint in with TexasAirforce airguns something new will happen. I want the best and not a gun where some after marked products must be apllied for improvements.  Now…hurl the stones .. Lol 

    There is nothing to stay away except that Martin has sold RAW to Airforce as I have read.

    The best thing was that a user could call Martin and discuss about one's gun.

    As far as after market improvements are concerned,  There is always room for improvement.  

    If manufacturer will do that all, the price of the product will increase further.

    Most of the users are more than happy with their stock RAW guns.

    To me these are the best built guns, based on Theoben Rapid action and with some improvements. 

    There is further room to improve efficiency in these guns.

    I don't like multi caliber guns. My both guns of different calibers should be always ready to hit the target without involving into changing the barrel and re zeroing.

    Regards,

    Umair Bhaur 

    Link

    SMH77
    Participant
    Member

    rigbymauser

    Hey folks.

    I am new kid on the block here but not new to guns.

    I have been an airgunners for many years but have had a "break" from the airgun-scene for some 8-9 years. 

     

    I have decided again to get into airguns and have made up my mind get buy a RAW.  Daystate are nice, FX are nice and so many other,  but I want the RAW.

    I have watch YouTube and read pages up and down here and other places to get as much intell as possible in regards to RAW. I do however have some issues.

     

    I have a great diificulty in seeing why some one can make aftermarked products to make improvements on an already highend  airgun. That goes from O-rings to silencer. If I buy a new gun from Holland & Holland  I don't send lt to a bubbagunsmith for improvements…Do I?.

    I will wait to a new gen of RAW  comes out. I have read here Huma regulator might be one of the things. Other features could be a real silencer, quick detachable, with sub 70 db. Adjustable regulator, quick detachable barrel and so on. Maybe now when they have joint in with TexasAirforce airguns something new will happen. I want the best and not a gun where some after marked products must be apllied for improvements.  Now…hurl the stones .. Lol 

    First-welcome!  You have made a great choice in going with a RAW-a product that is phenomenal straight from the factory-with no modifications needed.

    Let me speak to your concerns here (at the risk of offending people on this thread-which I do not intend to do).  I can understand your confusion between seeing the overall excellent experiences shared related to the RAW product line-which are ALL shot with products delivered straight from the factory (with the exception of Umair's postings, but he's been clear that he's modified his gun) and then seeing other posts about modifying the RAW.  Hopefully I can clear up some of what you're seeing in this excellent thread.

    I will speak to your items, one by one:

    O-rings: no issues noted by anyone that I know of.  If you are referring to Umair's addition of the O-ring, I suspect that was related to him adding it to the probe as he encountered a problem with his own work when adding a thimble to the BSA .22 barrel he fitted to one of his rifles.  He was experiencing louder than expected noise and (I believe) he traced back a loss of air to somewhere near the breach of his modified gun.  As a way to address it, he put seals on everything in the area.  While he was at it, he decided to try to improve the way the probe seals to the breach.  Throughout this thread, Umair is the only one who has decided that the factory RAW configuration 'needs help' or 'could be improved'.  The factory design, as delivered by Martin at RAW, works flawlessly and (in my opinion) is NOT deficient in design.

    Regulator: I have ZERO idea why Huma would even consider offering something for the RAW actions-I am totally not at all interested in this offering.  My extreme spreads while on the regulator regularly are in the 7-9 fps range for my shot strings-MUCH better than most of the FX results I see that include Huma regulators so I see them as having nothing to offer here for RAW.  Umair may not like that answer, but I think the majority of RAW owners stand with me on that sentiment.  (Sorry Umair…)

    Moderator: Yes, I think Umair, Craig, and others have a legitimate desire in trying to quiet down the RAW's further compared to the factory moderator.  DonnyFL and Ken (Spaweapons) have been working on coming up with a solution to make the report more muted.  Initial feedback from Craig is that they have a super efficient solution that should resolve the situation-at the expense of added length.  This is one area of 'legitimate' critique that's fair when leveled against the RAW lineup.  I personally live in an area with no neighbors, so I am not at all bothered by the report of the muzzle from my .25 cal and .30 cal HM1000x.  Everyone's situation (neighbors) is different though, so it's a personal thing…

    Adjustable Regulator: I don't think this will be coming any time soon from either Martin or AF-nor do I think it's needed.  The results are optimized via thorough testing by Martin to give the absolute best accuracy results.  Once found, the shots / fill are what they are-and they are more than adequate as delivered in my opinion (especially considering we're talking in the 35-40 shots/fill range with in .30 cal power levels).  FX likes to make the option available for users to tinker with the regulator settings-good for them.  RAW delivers a product optimized to shoot lights out-don't screw with it!  If you want more than one caliber up or down from what you have, then buy a second (or third) rifle-that's my take.

    Quick change barrels: Already present.  I have written the guide and regularly do the swap in under 5 minutes-start to finish.  Regarding sighting in: I have a 3 MIL shift (left to right) and a 0.5 MIL (up to down) shift when swapping between calibers-repeatably, every single time without exception.  It's completely predictable and accounted for when I swap calibers.  No future work could make this any easier…

    Detachable Moderator:  This will not happen, if Martin has any say in it moving forward-period.  I have talked to him about it and it's an issue of his interpretation of being on the 'correct side of current legal interpretations in the US'.  You can order a barrel from him without a moderator and seek your own solution if you please-but his will NOT be removable.  

    I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a RAW at all nor would I recommend waiting to see what AF comes out with.  AF and Martin were pretty clear at last year's Shot show what they would focus on next: bringing back the 'Theoben' brand as a more cost effective, mass produced lineup.  It wouldn't surprise me to see an update announced during this year's Shot Show (I have no insider information-I'm speculating).

    Trigger:  In reading through the thread, you've seen posts made by me wishing the trigger was a little 'better'.  I've really been one of the few that have made this request.  It really comes from my days of shooting 10m air rifles with phenomenal triggers.  I liken my 'wishes' about the same as 'wishing' I had one of Umair's excellent .22 cal BSA barrels to install: there's absolutely nothing wrong with the LW Polygon offering, but the 'Legend' would just take the gun up one further step into is 'legend-hood' (now that's actually debatable with the .22 LW polygon barrel vs. the BSA barrel).  In a similar sense: the only thing I wish I could do is directly install a top of the line 10m trigger into my RAW action (an Anschutz or FWB trigger, or a Steyr-those would be my choices).  My RAW's trigger is now setup very, very well and I rarely think about it any more.  Having said that: If I could throw $500 – $800 at someone and they would convert my gun for me-I'd take them up in a heartbeat (the Anschutz 4k trigger unit alone sells for $525 as a spare part, just FYI).  Anyway, the factory trigger is excellent and my posts are simply just dreams…

    Regarding Umair's posts: he comes to this thread from a non-US country and has had considerable experience with modifying other airguns over the years-plus he has access and experience as a machinist.  As such, he has taken it upon himself to see if he can do different things with the RAW HM1000X that he had as a spare (started off with a .25 cal gun).  I don't blame him at all for what he's set out to do: the BSA barrel (in .22 caliber) is no longer in production and has a legendary following (I know this from reading posts by Yrrah (Harry) over the years, along with others…).  If I had access to one of those barrels, had as spare .25 cal HM1000x and his machining experience / access I would have done exactly what he's done and posted for the benefit of anyone who want to learn more about the process or gun.  I appreciate him sharing his knowledge and experience in this thread-but I also understand how that could convey a sense that the design was somehow 'inadequate' from the factory.   This is simply NOT the case.  He's merely putting a 'legendary' barrel into a 'legend in the making' platform-something I wish I could do also!  I really only disagree with him on the points I clearly noted above (no offense intended Umair!).

    BTW: I found Umair's posting of the thimble most educational and interesting to understanding what they look like in person.  I would have pursued the same thimble approach in his situation.  However, if the gun was coming from Martin directly: it is my understanding that Martin has an 'indexing rig' (based on rumors only) that he uses to find the 'sweet spot' for the barrel and does this for each barrel he builds-straight from the factory.  Once the sweet spot is found, the purpose of the thimble has really been served (unless you want to add a barrel in the future and need to find the new barrel's 'sweet spot' for setting it up-then the thimble can be used as Umair has shown above).

    Umair: If I've mis-represented anything you've done, said, or intended in this thread-I apologize (feel free to correct me).

    With that being said: again, WELCOME!  I don't see any point in holding off in pursuing your purchase of a new or used RAW.  (On that note, my second one will be showing up in the coming couple weeks…)

    I hope that helps you better interpret the comments, photos, and discussion here in this thread?

     

    Sean

     

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    jps2486
    Participant
    Member

    SMH77,

    I agree with what you have said, and I feel that these statements are true with most quality products from any manufacturer.  But some folks feel that they have a better ideal and get out the Dremel, files, drills, etc to make the product better, or before even shooting it, send it out to some whiz-bang gunsmith to "tune it up".   The manufacturers are giving you the best they can offer and would not risk their reputation to give anything less.

    In regard to your desire for an Anschutz or FWB trigger, my TM1000 BR gun's stock RAW trigger breaks at 2 oz.  My HM100x 25 is about 5 oz.  That's pretty good IMO.

    Cheers

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    Sell682
    Participant
    Member

    As mentioned by others the RAW platform is excellent and doesn’t require all the modifications users make to perform. It’s pretty much perfect out of the box. As for the trigger I installed a Rowan trigger blade for better feel and adjustment/fit for myself. Some of us are tinkerers and we cannot just leave good enough alone. Some of it is based on preference others like customization and others think they can put together a better product but RAW doesn’t require it to perform trust me. You won’t be disappointed with the purchase and the reg that comes with it is gun is excellent and cannot see Huma improving  it.

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    nomojo65
    Participant
    Member

    I agree with most, The RAW platform is about as good as it gets for an all around multi-platform gun! I can’t shoot it to it’s full potential ( AS IS ) in both TM or BM configurations anyway ! There is a advantage to the thimble( barrel changes) but also a disadvantage (more o-rings) Just my opinion… personally the fewer the orings the better, But there is a beautiful Ruggedness and simplicity and an honest engineering that just attracts me to them! again one man’s opinion…

    Link

    mubhaur
    Participant
    Member

    SMH77

    rigbymauser

    Hey folks.

    I am new kid on the block here but not new to guns.

    I have been an airgunners for many years but have had a "break" from the airgun-scene for some 8-9 years. 

     

    I have decided again to get into airguns and have made up my mind get buy a RAW.  Daystate are nice, FX are nice and so many other,  but I want the RAW.

    I have watch YouTube and read pages up and down here and other places to get as much intell as possible in regards to RAW. I do however have some issues.

     

    I have a great diificulty in seeing why some one can make aftermarked products to make improvements on an already highend  airgun. That goes from O-rings to silencer. If I buy a new gun from Holland & Holland  I don't send lt to a bubbagunsmith for improvements…Do I?.

    I will wait to a new gen of RAW  comes out. I have read here Huma regulator might be one of the things. Other features could be a real silencer, quick detachable, with sub 70 db. Adjustable regulator, quick detachable barrel and so on. Maybe now when they have joint in with TexasAirforce airguns something new will happen. I want the best and not a gun where some after marked products must be apllied for improvements.  Now…hurl the stones .. Lol 

    First-welcome!  You have made a great choice in going with a RAW-a product that is phenomenal straight from the factory-with no modifications needed.

    Let me speak to your concerns here (at the risk of offending people on this thread-which I do not intend to do).  I can understand your confusion between seeing the overall excellent experiences shared related to the RAW product line-which are ALL shot with products delivered straight from the factory (with the exception of Umair's postings, but he's been clear that he's modified his gun) and then seeing other posts about modifying the RAW.  Hopefully I can clear up some of what you're seeing in this excellent thread.

    I will speak to your items, one by one:

    O-rings: no issues noted by anyone that I know of.  If you are referring to Umair's addition of the O-ring, I suspect that was related to him adding it to the probe as he encountered a problem with his own work when adding a thimble to the BSA .22 barrel he fitted to one of his rifles.  He was experiencing louder than expected noise and (I believe) he traced back a loss of air to somewhere near the breach of his modified gun.  As a way to address it, he put seals on everything in the area.  While he was at it, he decided to try to improve the way the probe seals to the breach.  Throughout this thread, Umair is the only one who has decided that the factory RAW configuration 'needs help' or 'could be improved'.  The factory design, as delivered by Martin at RAW, works flawlessly and (in my opinion) is NOT deficient in design.

    Regulator: I have ZERO idea why Huma would even consider offering something for the RAW actions-I am totally not at all interested in this offering.  My extreme spreads while on the regulator regularly are in the 7-9 fps range for my shot strings-MUCH better than most of the FX results I see that include Huma regulators so I see them as having nothing to offer here for RAW.  Umair may not like that answer, but I think the majority of RAW owners stand with me on that sentiment.  (Sorry Umair…)

    Moderator: Yes, I think Umair, Craig, and others have a legitimate desire in trying to quiet down the RAW's further compared to the factory moderator.  DonnyFL and Ken (Spaweapons) have been working on coming up with a solution to make the report more muted.  Initial feedback from Craig is that they have a super efficient solution that should resolve the situation-at the expense of added length.  This is one area of 'legitimate' critique that's fair when leveled against the RAW lineup.  I personally live in an area with no neighbors, so I am not at all bothered by the report of the muzzle from my .25 cal and .30 cal HM1000x.  Everyone's situation (neighbors) is different though, so it's a personal thing…

    Adjustable Regulator: I don't think this will be coming any time soon from either Martin or AF-nor do I think it's needed.  The results are optimized via thorough testing by Martin to give the absolute best accuracy results.  Once found, the shots / fill are what they are-and they are more than adequate as delivered in my opinion (especially considering we're talking in the 35-40 shots/fill range with in .30 cal power levels).  FX likes to make the option available for users to tinker with the regulator settings-good for them.  RAW delivers a product optimized to shoot lights out-don't screw with it!  If you want more than one caliber up or down from what you have, then buy a second (or third) rifle-that's my take.

    Quick change barrels: Already present.  I have written the guide and regularly do the swap in under 5 minutes-start to finish.  Regarding sighting in: I have a 3 MIL shift (left to right) and a 0.5 MIL (up to down) shift when swapping between calibers-repeatably, every single time without exception.  It's completely predictable and accounted for when I swap calibers.  No future work could make this any easier…

    Detachable Moderator:  This will not happen, if Martin has any say in it moving forward-period.  I have talked to him about it and it's an issue of his interpretation of being on the 'correct side of current legal interpretations in the US'.  You can order a barrel from him without a moderator and seek your own solution if you please-but his will NOT be removable.  

    I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a RAW at all nor would I recommend waiting to see what AF comes out with.  AF and Martin were pretty clear at last year's Shot show what they would focus on next: bringing back the 'Theoben' brand as a more cost effective, mass produced lineup.  It wouldn't surprise me to see an update announced during this year's Shot Show (I have no insider information-I'm speculating).

    Trigger:  In reading through the thread, you've seen posts made by me wishing the trigger was a little 'better'.  I've really been one of the few that have made this request.  It really comes from my days of shooting 10m air rifles with phenomenal triggers.  I liken my 'wishes' about the same as 'wishing' I had one of Umair's excellent .22 cal BSA barrels to install: there's absolutely nothing wrong with the LW Polygon offering, but the 'Legend' would just take the gun up one further step into is 'legend-hood' (now that's actually debatable with the .22 LW polygon barrel vs. the BSA barrel).  In a similar sense: the only thing I wish I could do is directly install a top of the line 10m trigger into my RAW action (an Anschutz or FWB trigger, or a Steyr-those would be my choices).  My RAW's trigger is now setup very, very well and I rarely think about it any more.  Having said that: If I could throw $500 – $800 at someone and they would convert my gun for me-I'd take them up in a heartbeat (the Anschutz 4k trigger unit alone sells for $525 as a spare part, just FYI).  Anyway, the factory trigger is excellent and my posts are simply just dreams…

    Regarding Umair's posts: he comes to this thread from a non-US country and has had considerable experience with modifying other airguns over the years-plus he has access and experience as a machinist.  As such, he has taken it upon himself to see if he can do different things with the RAW HM1000X that he had as a spare (started off with a .25 cal gun).  I don't blame him at all for what he's set out to do: the BSA barrel (in .22 caliber) is no longer in production and has a legendary following (I know this from reading posts by Yrrah (Harry) over the years, along with others…).  If I had access to one of those barrels, had as spare .25 cal HM1000x and his machining experience / access I would have done exactly what he's done and posted for the benefit of anyone who want to learn more about the process or gun.  I appreciate him sharing his knowledge and experience in this thread-but I also understand how that could convey a sense that the design was somehow 'inadequate' from the factory.   This is simply NOT the case.  He's merely putting a 'legendary' barrel into a 'legend in the making' platform-something I wish I could do also!  I really only disagree with him on the points I clearly noted above (no offense intended Umair!).

    BTW: I found Umair's posting of the thimble most educational and interesting to understanding what they look like in person.  I would have pursued the same thimble approach in his situation.  However, if the gun was coming from Martin directly: it is my understanding that Martin has an 'indexing rig' (based on rumors only) that he uses to find the 'sweet spot' for the barrel and does this for each barrel he builds-straight from the factory.  Once the sweet spot is found, the purpose of the thimble has really been served (unless you want to add a barrel in the future and need to find the new barrel's 'sweet spot' for setting it up-then the thimble can be used as Umair has shown above).

    Umair: If I've mis-represented anything you've done, said, or intended in this thread-I apologize (feel free to correct me).

    With that being said: again, WELCOME!  I don't see any point in holding off in pursuing your purchase of a new or used RAW.  (On that note, my second one will be showing up in the coming couple weeks…)

    I hope that helps you better interpret the comments, photos, and discussion here in this thread?

     

    Sean

     

    Dear Sean,

    You have done a very well analysis of the product and posts of some of the users like me.  

    Background:  In fact I am not only a user but I have been into the hobby of fixing springer and PCP guns for a long time. I am 47 now and I have been into airguns since when I was 13 years old.

    I live in third world country, Pakistan.  Here it is very difficult to find a good gunsmith for delicate airguns.  Yes if you want AK47, there are a lot of gunsmiths here but I dont know the level of their skill since I am not into firearms.

    During my hobby I have fixed a number of various models of FX guns, Theoben Rapid, BSA R10, HW100, Diana P1000 and many more.

    When one goes through so many products, one develops an understanding and preference for some of the designs. No product is so perfect that it cant be improved further.  

    If this statement is not true then we stop our quest for betterment and improvement.

    Indexable Thimble:  You have rightly pointed out that my initial concern for developing an indexable thimble was to index the barrel and to control the size of TP hole by just rotating the thimble a bit.

    My initial experiment was with a thimble that had metal to metal contact with the probe in which I had become successful finally after obtaining the correct angle in probe and breach. But I always feel that the cam of the side lever needs a bit more load (causing wear and tear) than those guns that seals the breach with O ring system.

    Metal to metal contact is good for those who cant carefully clean the barrel and ruin the O ring while cleaning the barrel. This is not the case with me. I achieve 100% sealing with O ring system with the least lever closing effort. This is an icing on the cake.

    The O ring system appealed to me so good that I also put the similar system in Original barrel of HM1000X.  But this time I did not need the separate thimble as Martin sent the gun with already perfect indexing.

    Regulator: The regulator of RAW is very good and it gives pretty tight spread. in design the regulator of FX Royale series guns and RAW are very similar. I have tested Huma regulator in one of my Royales and found that my gun became more efficient.  When Huma told me that they are developing regulator for RAW, I thought I should try it as Huma regulator are normally very efficient. That is why I shared it on the forum for others.

    Trigger: Trigger is great out of the box. Out of my two RAW I had to adjust the trigger of one only. Now both are great and identical. Yes there may be better triggers but at higher cost.

    More than one caliber: I have already agreed to you that I keep two RAW and both are always ready to shoot accurately. I dont like changing calibers in same gun and then reset everything.

    Contacts with Tuners: Its so kind of some top notch tuners of UK and USA that whenever I seek guidance from them, they guide me all the way. The modifications that I have done to my RAW are also after discussion with some of those tuners.

    My conclusion: I still conclude that RAW in its stock form is still the best gun for any user. Very dependable and reliable and very accurate. If you want improvements, sky is the limit for any product. But for such work very precision work is needed that is not easily obtainable. I feel myself lucky that my both RAW were made before the takeover by Airforce.  To me RAW means Martin.

    Best regards,

    Umair Bhaur

     

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    khilji
    Participant
    Member

    Good effort Umair very briefly defined 

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    rigbymauser
    Participant
    Member

    Thanks you all. 🙂

    As an upgrade on the RAW I was thinking of a real firearms silencer. They do cost around $400-700. They are not fixed and they can be made to go around the barrel down to the air reservoir as it shortens the length…and they can be unscrewed.

     

     To my original post and the responses to the replies. RAW is a highend air rifle. If anyone makes tiny improvements here & there why don`t they do it at the RAW shop?. I know it is has been a tradition for many many years for airgun folks to take their guns apart to tamper with parts to make be either more powerful or make it more accurate. That you do with a cheaper gun, but not with an expensive gun. All the performance one is looking for should be maxed when the dollar(price) is maxed.

     

     The reason I want a RAW is there has been to many bad report about other highend brands. But not with a RAW. Its a proven rugged system from the former Theoben. I used to have a Rapid Mk 2 which I consider to be the AK47 of pcp airguns. This year here I will order a RAW.

     

    I would like to make the 200yard mark a standard benchmark in accuracy. Every airgun these days can hit golfballs @100 yards. 200 yard is the next level. The .30cal I think is the caliber choice. I see the .30cal is represented quit well in the benchrest comps. I know slugs would might do better, but for me its about a tin of pellets. Maybe in near future a rifling type may be available for both castbullets and slugs. 

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