RAW POI Change After Moderator Is Removed and Reinstalled.

Forums PCP Airguns RAW POI Change After Moderator Is Removed and Reinstalled.

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    Dirte
    Participant
    Member

    I removed my RAW’s moderator for the first time which consists of a long carbon fiber tube to clean the typical pellet dust, and reinstalled it. When I did this my poi changes by about 2-3 inches at 50 yds. I removed it again and it changed again.  The gun re zeros fine. Also no evidence of clipping the plastic end piece. I almost suspect the tube is a little warped and pulling/flexing the barrel over a bit. Question is………. Has anyone else experienced this on their RAW? I will give Martin a call and ask his opinion but just wondering about others experience.

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    T3PRanch
    Participant
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    I don’t have a RAW but I have seen this on other guns. Can’t offer a solution or explanation unfortunately!

    Thurmond 

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    Scalf
    Participant
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    I had a similar problem on a fx. If the pellet doesn’t go centered though  the moderator it can push the pellet around . If you move the moderator to  a different spot  the pellet will be going through the moderator  different.  The pellet  should  go through the exact center. The smaller the hole in moderator  the more critical being centeted is. Several reasons cause this issue. Barrel not straight, bore not in center of barrel, moderator not straight,a bad crown,threads on end of barrel not straight and probably  more issues that i have not mention. Try shooting without moderator and see how much poi changes. 
     

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    Scalf
    Participant
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    It doesn’t have to hit the moderator, just be off centered and real close to hitting. 

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    FukoChan
    Participant
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    It’s pretty normal for removing the moderator/lead dust collector and cleaning the barrel for the poi to change. It has to do with messing with the harmonics and the uneven material when rotating and tightening down the threads, as people are not perfect in making these things. Try marking the moderator with a line, and making sure you line it up in the same spot when putting on your moderator. If you suspect your pellets are clipping then using a file to enlarge the openings help. Although if your pellets are clipping then you would not be able to hold a decent group.

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    Imold
    Participant
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    I’m ordering my HM1000x .357 Wednesday morning and I’m going to ask Sandra about this, Thanks for the heads up…

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    Deja
    Spectator
    Spectator

    “FukoChan”It’s pretty normal for removing the moderator/lead dust collector and cleaning the barrel for the poi to change. It has to do with messing with the harmonics and the uneven material when rotating and tightening down the threads, as people are not perfect in making these things. Try marking the moderator with a line, and making sure you line it up in the same spot when putting on your moderator. If you suspect your pellets are clipping then using a file to enlarge the openings help. Although if your pellets are clipping then you would not be able to hold a decent group.

    
This is normal behaviour with pcps, and im guessing powder too. Just how the harmonics affect your barrel / rifle. Just rezero and carry on. 

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    Dirte
    Participant
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    Thanks for the replies guys. Your right!!!! Just talked to Martin at RAW. He stated that just tightening up the cap changes the tension on the barrel. This is normal behavior, and putting a little sharpie mark can aid getting it back to the same position for future removal.

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    Dirte
    Participant
    Member

    Took the RAW out today and played with the moderator end cap tightness. I had it cranked down pretty tight. I eased it off a bit and ya the poi changes. Maybe it is just wishful thinking but….. I believe my groups closed up a bit. I started stacking more pellets on a already accurate gun.

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    SMH77
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    So how exactly did you remove the moderator?  Do you have any photos of what it looks like inside the moderator?  I’m curious how it attaches and what it looks like inside of one…

    Sean

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    Dirte
    Participant
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    “SMH77”So how exactly did you remove the moderator?  Do you have any photos of what it looks like inside the moderator?  I’m curious how it attaches and what it looks like inside of one…
    Sean

    Here is a picture. Just unscrew the cap and the tube slides off. Takes about 10 seconds. The HMX .25 is quite a bit louder than the HMX .22. I tried to sleeve my .25 with some high density foam mat. It did not change a thing. I’m surprised they are that load being that long, but it is what it is!

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    SMH77
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    Thanks for the info and the photos-that helps a lot!  In the other ‘RAW’ thread, there is talk that Salticon will be offering a special version of the ‘DonnyFL’ moderator specific for the RAW’s, soon (I believe?).  That should quiet them down a bit too.  I’m wondering how much louder mine will be going from .25 cal in 50 fpe up to .25 cal in 60 fpe?  Additionally when I install the .30 cal barrel setup on it to.  I’ll have my answers tomorrow.  

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    scrane
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    The only thing I’m not crazy about on the raw is the moderator. Seems like excessive engineering when a more conventional and simpler Weihrauch or Hogan silencer would do. But with the RAW’s inherent accuracy Martin probably has his reasons.

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    SMH77
    Participant
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    “Dirte”

     


    Here is a picture. Just unscrew the cap and the tube slides off. Takes about 10 seconds. The HMX .25 is quite a bit louder than the HMX .22. I tried to sleeve my .25 with some high density foam mat. It did not change a thing. I’m surprised they are that load being that long, but it is what it is!

    I wonder if the material you pack in there makes a difference?  Take a look at the following instructions from the DonnyFL website:

    https://donnyfl.com/pages/felt-how-to

    Sean

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    Springrrrr
    Participant
    Member

    There is a lot of leverage at the end of the barrel that is held on in one spot on the receiver.  A very small change at the end makes for a major change at 40-75 yards or what ever distance you are shooting.

    I found that out the hard way when I got my cheapo but deadly accurate Gauntlet.  As long as I don’t touch the barrel once the POI has been scoped in, all is well.  A tap on the barrel could change things big 40 yards out.

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    spysir
    Participant
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    “The only thing I’m not crazy about on the raw is the moderator. Seems like excessive engineering when a more conventional and simpler Weihrauch or Hogan silencer would do:

     It is a reflex  design which keeps the over all length down. You could order one anyway you like. Martin does such fine bluing I still like just the blued barrel on them.

    John

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    scrane
    Participant
    Member

    Yah. If I had it to do over I think I’d specify the standard sleeved barrel to retain rigidity, but sleeved all the way to the muzzle and finished with the standard 1/2″ thread. I don’t particularly like the carbon fiber look, but I think it is part of the RAW accuracy equasion.

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    jking
    Participant
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    My 25HM1000X has the offset CF. It disassembles easy enough but I have notice a POI shift after taking it off, not much but some. I would actually prefer the non-offset moderator. I’ve heard it’s quieter than the offset. Even if wasn’t any quieter I’d still prefer the more common smaller OD’d design.
    Jimmy

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    SMH77
    Participant
    Member

    I thought long and hard about going with the CFOS moderator vs the traditional ‘centered’ version and decided that I should stay centered.  While it’s only a ‘theoretical’ argument, the one point that I was hesitant about was the possibility of the uneven pressure expansion at the point when the pellet just leaves the barrel and before it exits the moderator.  The other point was the easy of removal for cleaning.  Now that I hear the DonnyFL version will be available soon, I’m glad to have stayed centered as it will give the look I prefer.

    Other than those points, I think Martin’s done a great job with the CFOS moderator-it looks really nice.  He also told me there is literally no sound difference between the two designs.

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    scrane
    Participant
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    I would certainly be interested in Donny’s design if it is more compact than the standard RAW. I wonder, though, what he can do with the the 6″ unsleeved portion of the barrel? 
    Interesting question as to what exactly is causing the change in POI. Perhaps the carbon fiber silencer external shroud is not machined true on the ends and is pulling the barrel from straight as the cap is tightened? 

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