Question from one of the new guys

1) pellets and slugs fly more accurately at certain velocity's so adjusting with a "crono" helps

2) Bragging is human nature and also shows the accuracy of the guns people own, sure its much easier to shoot off a bi pod and bench but theres no better way to test the accuracy of your gun or sight it in.

3) like powder burners, slugs stabilize with spin and speed and since pellet guns lack the speed and power of powder burners we try to reach the next level in FPS/FT/LBS specially those who hunt.

Thats just my thoughts.

sonny

I cant speak for anyone else but since I'm not a hunter for me it's all about precision shooting. The tightest group I can get at the max distance. Seeing what I can get out of me and the rifle.

It’s a forum, what do you expect? It would be a pretty full place if people didn’t come and talk about their accomplishments.

And the reason pellet speed and tuning are a thing is because heavy pellets and slugs are the new hotness. Most guns come tuned for an 18gr .22 or 25.39 gr .25 pellet from the factory... but to shoot slugs or heavy ammo you need to boost power to maintain accuracy.

Matt Dubber just put out a really good video explaining this.

https://youtu.be/TLK5j2urOJ0

I can't speak to points 1,2 & 3 other than to say I use my Chrony to set up my guns more for fill pressure and shot count, or to determine the sweet spot fill pressure. If something goes wrong with my guns the first thing after cleaning the bore is using the chrony.

Once in a while I'll post a group but I mostly do pesting and hunting so I mostly use the bench for checking zero and just punching paper for fun. If you're hunting ground squirrels in my area you have all kinds of time to get set up since if they see you coming they'll dive into the burrows and not come out for a while, if at all, so I sometimes take a ranging shot if it's windy. I don't use a bipod myself but I do go out pesting with my shooting sticks-it stinks to wait 20 minutes for a shot and then miss!

For offhand I mostly shoot my springers at fairly close range, it's always interesting.

I find what everyone else is doing here interesting enough to spend my coffee time looking over what's new-to each their own.

I will bite, I both target shoot and hunt. The range is where you adjust your rifle/scope, the field is where you reap the rewards. A dime size group is a good standard, as that represents a distance which you can reliably hit a bird/rabbit/squirrel head with a single shot. Many of us start with airguns which *can* shoot dime sized groups, but it takes a bit of time at the range to do it repeatedly, on demand, when needed while hunting. So when someone gets to where they are dime sized at 50 yards or more, they are justifiably proud of their effort. I do not begrudge them for displaying the outcome of their hard work.

As far as chrony tests, yes, guilty. I modify/rebuild air rifles. I would challenge you to determine the shot to shot variation in a good air rifle without a chrony (unless the airgun is horribly broken). Most people can't detect a 18 FPS variation at 25 yards, but a chrony can. It is a useful tool.

I don't tend to tune for max FPS, but that is a personal choice. I prefer to tune for the low end of the "sweet spot" where a given pellet is most accurate. This way I get a high shot count, and good accuracy. If I want to hunt bigger stuff, I go for a big bore airgun. I don't try to get much over 50 foot pounds of energy (FPE) out of a 0.25 caliber pellet. I tend to ignore the current slug craze for 0.25 caliber and smaller air rifles. But that is my choice; other people have different goals, and I respect that. 

Heck yeah!

I'm all about hitting my bench in the back yard and shooting through a tin of pellets. 30 - 40 yard range with plenty of spinners, gongs, paper holders and anything else we can find to challenge ourselves.

I have a few guns that I've tinkered with to find the sweet spot between pressure and accuracy but those I tend to use more for pesting. (Gotta keep those tree-rats off my nuts!)

Yes, I have noticed a few tuning their rig to shoot at the highest fps they can squeeze out of their gun but I hardly ever see them posting groups... 

If you're having fun, I wouldn't switch up your routine. Get out and enjoy the fun!

Hey Mike,

I'm into Field Target which is loads of fun. Definitely tests your skills and tune of your rifle. FT is not about power but accuracy, shooting very small targets at different distances. Often courses are in the woods. Specifically I shoot Hunter class field target, where you are limited to 20 fpe and you have to use holdover to hit your target. Both sitting lanes with shooting sticks and forced positions- kneeling and standing are used. 

We use a chronograph to make sure the rifle is shooting a legal FPE per the AAFTA rules of the game. Plus a choreograph assists in tuning your gun to the speed your pellet likes and also to find how many consistent velocity shots you can get on a fill. 

If you are interested, look into field target and see if there is a airgun club near you. Give it a try! It's highly addictive. And Field Target shooters are a great group of guys and gals.

Regards,

Dead Eye

Here's my youtube channel with a few videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCftuEXdQhTdZPX4o6K_iFzQ?view_as=subscriber

My three part answer to your three part question.(Great questions by the way)

1. Chronograph testing is my way of getting to know a airgun’s performance, consistency, and power output. For various reasons, trajectory, impact on game, tuning information, learning how different ammo is performing, etc. Airgun use for most every other shooting task above the level of backyard plinking for fun. FPS/FPE info could mean the difference between hits, misses, or wounding and humane kills.

2. Pictures of groups... Part bragging, part informational. I mean, if a given make / model of airgun shoots great or poorly, folks thinking about a possible purchase would probably like to see that. As far as bragging.... It is what it is.

3. Tuning for fast as possible FPS? Projectile speed can be a airgunners best friend or worst enemy. My theory, power + accuracy + shot count + trajectory = where I want to be. I own a number of airguns that have adjustable power setting features. That being said, 9 times out of ten I’ll tune for 2 or 3 FPE higher than advertised factory settings for a given gun. 50 or so FPS faster, usually never degrading accuracy or sacrificing much on shot count, but benefiting on things such as flatter trajectory and harder impacts on game.

With all the available information out there nowadays and high tech airgun equipment, most airgunners are moving beyond just tin can close range shooting. It’s became pretty serious sport. My 3 cents.

A few comments..........

"1. Many feel the need to shoot regularly thru a chronograph."

So what's the issue? I only shoot springers and if the poi SEEMS abnormal the first thing I do is take a few shots over my ProChrono to verify if "all is normal".

"2. Many feel the need to post pictures to brag about the dime sized hole in the target (various feet/yards away)."

A few pics to prove that I can shoot 1/2" (or better) 5 shot groups at 50 yards (on occasion) with my .177 HW95 break barrel while sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks is better than simply stating the fact. LOL...there are some whoe claim on the forums, "no pics it didn't happen" . LOL....posting pics might even be encouraging for those shooting the same hardware. LOL, just to prove that I ain't above braggin' on occasion............









LOL......so what's the Problem with postin' "braggin' pics"?



"3. Many feel the need to re-tune their guns to as fast a FPS as possible."

LOL.......I've re-tuned both of my springers to shoot less fps than they do straight from the factory. For example, my latest springer is a .177 HW95 and straight from the box it shot 7.9 grain CPLs at 880fps. I immediately broke the gun down and detuned it to shoot CPLs at a twang/vibrationless 850fps because it's simply easier to shoot accurately at the lower power level.

"I get some of it. Speed…who cares, an extra 10/12 FPS."

LOL, 10/12fps doesn't affect the ballistics of my .177 springers at all. Not so however when I used a "new to me" brand of spring kit and found that the spring sagged losing 40 fps velocity in only two months. After about 4 months the chrony showed that the spring sagged even further and I had lost a total of 80fps, then the spring kit was replaced by a home rolled kit based on a better spring.

"You should be able to sense if your gun is having problems without the crono".

As a new airgun shooter, how did you come to this conclusion? I prefer knowing when I'm starting to have "springer issues" before issues advance to "damaging causing issues". The chrony is the best way of determining if there are mechanical issues!

"Shooting a single hole with a coupla rounds…fine."

A normal airgun group consists of 5 to 10 rounds to verify the consistency of the shot cycle. If you're satisfied with the results of "two round groups" that is your prerogative! Pellets are cheap (even the "gooduns" so there is no reason for me to "scrimp on practice"!

"I'd bet birds and squirrels will hold still while while you set your three point gun rest..!?"

I've squirrel hunted for a few decades using break barrel springers and I could always get off the first shot and occasionally a second shot before the squirrel realized that it was being shot at! More than a couple times I would take a steep angled shot at a squirrel on a limb forgetting to "hold low" to compensate for the distance the scope is above the bore. LOL.......sometimes the squirrel would just look around after the shot and even allow me to re-cock the gun and deliver a proper head shot.

"Just like anything else, the faster (FPS) you go, the more parts breakage there is…as has been proven in many posts."

So true with a springer but not so sure with a PCP. The biggest issue with a springer is the power output to gun weight. Still, as far as springers are concerned, the internal spring and piston seal are considered consumables like tires on a car.

"Question, doesn't anyone just go out and have fun shooting?" 

Sure do! And for me all the things you're dissing are part of the fun. LOL....for me, tuning springers is a satisfying part of shooting.

"Shoot off hand, to see how well YOU shoot?" 

LOL.....I already know that I stink at offhand shooting and find it no fun at all so I do very little offhand shooting.

"We all know most guns are plenty capable."

I do have to take exception with this comment because capable is in the eyes of the shooter. Years ago I bought a Crosman Quest 1000 (rebadged China Gamo 220 clone) and found that the groups were unacceptable for my purposes! I then bought a "real" Gamo440 and found that it was more accurate than the Quest, however the 1" ctc 30 yard accuracy wasn't acceptable either. The last "cheap springer" I bought was a .177 Remington Express and here are a few groups shot at only 18 yards trying to find an accurate pellet from that gun....





In contrast here are a couple 18 yard 5 shot groups shot with my .177 HW95.........











"I come from powder firing guns and from crossbows. I reload my own ammo, and occasionally build my own arrows. Yea, sometimes…I load rounds a little hot… But none of it bares a resemblance to what many seemed to be concerned about here."

Ya can't compare the ballistics of a heavy high BC firearm bullet to that of a light weight low BC pellet (relatively). Consider that a 3000fps PB bullet losing 100fps is only giving up .03% of the velocity and has little bearing on the poi. On the other hand a 900fps airgun pellet losing 100fps is giving up 11% of the velocity.

"many do these seemingly unnecessary things"

Seemingly unnecessary is the operative word from a shooter new to airguns!

"Not the bipod, and 1000 FPS pellet speeds."

Hummm....when shooting hunter class field target (except for the forced offhand and kneeling lanes), the shooter can shoot prone with a non-attached bipod, offhand and sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks, yet most don't shoot a full match unsupported if they hope to place well in the standing.

For me, shooting an airgun is only part of the fun, making parts and tuning the gun that it gives either more power, more consistency , quieter, smoother or better accuracy is more rewarding to me than blowing a pellet sized hole into the side of a furry critter at 25yards.

Bb

.

Welcome Aboard!

I too am a reloader, powder burner and also an airgun shooter. My first air rifle was one of the Daisy 1894 replicas. I was six years old when my Dad gave me that one. It went away when I snuck it out and put little BB holes in the neighbors garage side window. He happened to be our local Parson, but when he saw what I did the words that came out weren't too Parsonly

I was later given a Crosman 760 (I think) when I was 9. I literally wore that old Crosman out! It accounted for untold numbers of rats, Starlings, tin cans, pop bottles and just plain old paper targets.

I didn't buy another airgun till I was about 45, a Beeman Kodiak. I took that big springer on lots of sage rat trips where we usually used .22 long rifle guns or larger. It was devasating on sage rats (Belding Ground Squirrels) out to 75 yards. Since then there have been a few CO2 guns, a couple more springers including an HW97 and a BSA Lightning. Last couple years I finally got into PCPs. I really love PCPs!

But what I am getting around to is that I get to shoot my airguns A LOT. That means practice, and you have to be smooth to shoot an airgun well and get those tiny groups we all like to brag about. That all translates into hitting varmints with smokeless at extreme yardages. I use my Chrony to find out the velocities of the various pellets I like to try. I have settled down to a few favorites, maybe one or two for each airgun. I know I can hit my target with those pellets and weights.

Shooting with air is a bit different than with powder but not any less fun. Maybe even more fun sometimes because you can do it quietly and relatively cheaply. There is pride in picking the right pellet, the right pressure, the right hold and getting those tiny groups. Yeah I think sometimes some folks take the spec thing to extremes but I look at it as whatever turns your crank righT.

Welcome to airgunning and the forum!

 

https://youtu.be/G1z4auc9hmE



My journey has been the same as most of us: lever action BB gun, to pump action, to CO2, to Springer, to PCP. My Benji 342 .22 is amazing, still after 30 plus years. I got it in 1984.

After having a squirrel problem I had to dust off the old Benji. I had a scope and lazer sight. No more squirrels in sight (pun intended). When I was sighting in the scope I realized how rusty I was. Afterwards, I quickly ran out of pellets an had to reup. I began to plink @ 20 yds, then to 30 yds, 40 yds next to 50 yds. I ended up shimming the Poweline scope to shoot 60 plus yds. I was shooting tin cans and small gongs that I hung on a wire. What a blast.

As I researched the web for a better scope, I came across an air gun smith that tuned old Benjis. The more I researched the more I learned and got more addicted. I began to hate pumping the old Benji. Especially after I saw what a PROD could do. Long story short, I bought a PROD and a hand pump. I pushed it to the limits and still shot it at 60 yds but realized I needed and MROD. The PROD broke so I sent it back as well as the pump. I probably shot it to death! Again, I did alot of research and alot of saving because I wanted a 75yd gun. 

I watched tons of UTUBE videos before I made my choice. Still a plinker at heart, I sought a gun that could plink at 75 to 100 yards with high shot count and a 20 plus pellet magazine. My budget kept multiplying and multiplying. And TED, MATT, GILES, and STEVE, plus yearly SHOT SHOW, and IWA videos didn't help. I was hooked! I joined AGN, contacted SPAW and commissioned Ken Hicks to build me a custom "tuned" 700mm 30 cal FX Impact. Its been a hell of a journey. I had to relearn everything I thought I knew about air guns especially concerning PCP's. I'm still learning. I love this new hobby which has become my passion. I hope to attend and maybe compete in an EBR one day.

Thank you to all who answer my questions. I hope this video series helps some of the new guys.

Us newbie's must try your patience.

Still a Student,

Tony