Question for folks in England concerning FAC?

Forums General Discussion Question for folks in England concerning FAC?

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    NeilClague
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    Spectator

    Cookie you just do not need to have a gun cabinet, it has to be bolted to the floor and walls of the house so it can not be easily removed and getting permission to hunt on someones property is not that easy, unless you know the farmer or land owner very well you will often get sent packing. Most farmers do not like people walking across their fields with guns of any type. As for being a member of a gun club, the UK is not like the USA, there are not gun clubs in every town and village. Unless you live in a highly populated area good luck finding one. Like I said it might be easier getting an FAC license for an air rifle, but when I was there getting a fire arms license was extremely difficult and the Chief Constable had the final say on it, if for any reason he did not like the look of you or your application you would not be granted one. I was  told by a few police officers it helped if you had some friends in the police force which I did, but my father did not want to have to buy a very expensive gun cabinet and then install it in the home and have it inspected, just to house a single shot gun that he had inherited, it was just not worth the hassle. I am sure since I left the UK it has got harder to get an FAC and not easier, but as I said before I am not totally sure that the procedure is exactly the same for a license for an air rifle, but I would assume that a fire arms license is a fire arms license, no matter what gun it applies to, after all you do not need an FAC for every gun, once you have it you can own as many as you like, Neil.

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    Cookie
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    Had your father joined the BASC then I am sure that they could have advised him properly to terms of whether he would be successful, what to say/write on the application or even seek the shotgun’s reclassification as historic and therefore avoid having to apply for a Shotgun Cert. They helped me with an application for an inherited historic centrefire firearm, when I didn’t have a spare “slot” on the certificate, and the firearm is still held as was. BASC membership is a shooters best defence against anything the Police could throw at anyone because they know that specialist lawyers/barristers (better that the Police’s) are a phone call away to advise/refute on anything.

    Police need to objectively support their reason for refusing a Shotgun or Firearms Cert. “Not liking the look of you” isn’t objective, though that may be a polite summation if someone has a visible Swastikas or the word “Kill” or “Death” tattooed across your knuckles (I have come across an individual) that evidence you’re not exactly “balanced”/of good character/of curious intent. Since in the UK we do not have an explicit right to hold weapons for the purpose of self-defence, I maintain that it is only right & proper that a person have a legitimate practical reason for holding a working centrefire/shotgun/high powered air rifle.

    Bolting a cabinet is not hard. A couple of hours work, electric drill, two masonry bits, the bolts/clamps that came with the cabinet and a little cement was all that it took me.

    The “problem” of shooting permissions is a subject that I hear constantly, usually by people:

    1. Clearly unfit and ill-equipped for shooting outdoors, in all weather, over the distances required to effectively control pests on a farm.
    2. Uninsured and ignorant of legal issues.
    3. Ignorant of the workings of a farm/its livestock through the seasons/daily life.
    4. Presenting themselves as unintelligent/irresponsible, having poor or bad character. Especially a concern when dealing with air guns, as they still have an image as toys/an air of immaturity about them.

    Would anyone reading this give permission for any of the above to wander your land with a firearm, potentially to kill someone, shoot an expensive bull or piece of machinery….all having at a minimum …. significant financial penalties?

    Anyone can rent or buy land, either as an individual or as a group. Only two people are needed to start a club. Off the top of my head, there are at least 10 shooting “clubs” (of various flavours) within 15 miles; mostly customised by people from metropolitan areas, and I think only two are on the internet, yet some people will claim there is nowhere to shoot. There is plenty of poor farmland/waste land around I am sure many farmers would rent out to an airgun club, even if only on a Saturday, if responsible people approached to offer cash.

    As we have land, know other shooters and act responsibly, and live in countryside with built-up connections to shoot over large parts of the UK, I have no issue with permissions. Most landowners I know either have an excess of people wanting to shoot over their land, or nobody to shoot on their land. Once, mainly because I wanted somewhere different to shoot, I agreed to shoot corvids among tree tops at dusk for a farmer (him having no luck finding anyone willing to walk a distance from a road in return for little shooting time; is the same with fishing, most people are lazy and will only fish near the car parks!) but it turned out that he was related (most landowners are related/are friends with other landowners-them having the same way of life) with someone with large landholdings; and once he related my efforts to that person I was subsequently offered shooting around everything from castles to prime farmland. Whether I am phoned to shoot at 4am or 2pm I go, around whatever problem arises, because it is a job needs doing. If I didn’t go when requested, they would stop phoning me and I would likely start losing shooting opportunities. Life can be hard, but overall is great fun.

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    wolfie
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    Hi

    I live in France. The gun laws changed quite a bit in 2004/5. Now one needs a permit de chasse or permit de tir. The first being for  hunting and the latter for gun club shooting. The chasse licence if your French is good has a practical test and a 5 section question and answer exam. The chasse permit obtained will allow most shotguns and most rifles,. However this has recently changed again and all guns are now put into categories A, B,C and D. Without going into too much detail category C is the chasse or gun club section. Basically military calibres are not allowed and there are controls on ammuntion quantities. Air guns are freely allowed in France up to 20 joules of energy ( appx 16 FPE) although age restrictions apply under 18 I believe. Over 20 joules all airguns are in Category C. The calibre is irrelevant as is the power. The gun club licence is very straightforward , fill in a form showing proof of ID and residence. Pay the fee about 159 euros wait two weeks, collect licence from club. Sign and obtain your doctors signature on the licence. Buy your airgun of choice. Take details of said gun to the local Sous Prefecture who will note the Declared item. The Gendarmerie will inspect your security. Gun club licence for proper fire arms is the same but there are Controles two or three times a year witnessed at the gun club that you have fired a certain number of shots abd been perceived safe. Pistols and long guns all ok. Section D is for eg black powder weapons and is less controlled. 
    Hunting with .22 air guns is not allowed. But .25 and above is ok. The chasse season is appx September to February but varies locally dependent on quarry availability.

    There are few good airgun shops in France, 

    Safe shooting
     

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    wolfie
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    Hi again

    a follow up relating to the UK airgun laws.

    Scotland has passed a law now requiring ALL airguns regardless of FPE to be licenced and registered. Make of that nonsensical peace of legislation what you will.

    safe shooting

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    RonDriessen
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    Hi Monkyshine,

    Maybe you doin’t believe but here in the Netherlands there are absolutely no restrictions in caliber or energy. There are only a lot of restrictions were you are allowed to shoot with your Airgun. Not in the open only in your own backyard or at the range.

    Ron

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    RonDriessen
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    Wolfie,

    I always thought Schotland was such a nice place to be.

    Ron

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    callmenobody
    Participant
    Member

    Sweden:
    All airgun calibers below 10J (7.38 ft/lbs) are allowed, above 10J are restricted.
    To own one legally your options are:
    1. Join a club and compete. After a certain time, usually 6-12 months, the club can vouch for you and you can apply for a permit. If you get it is another thing.
    2. Take (and pass) a hunters course. This allows you to both hunt and compete with your weapons. The course is about 40h with a variaty of shooting, theory and safety tests. When you have passed the test you can apply for permits for everything from rimfire, centerfire, shotguns and air rifles. However, the police conciders air rifles to be a menace and it is REALLY hard to get a permit even if “2” is fullfilled.
     

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    Monkyshine
    Participant
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    Some of you fellows have a big process to follow before any fun starts.

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    RonDriessen
    Participant
    Member

    The only process here in the Netherlands is the process to become 18 years old. After 18, well buy what you want.

    Regards Ron

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    Boris_DeBus
    Participant
    Member

    Going back to the original post, in the UK, if you have an air rifle on your “ticket” (license) it will have its calibre specified (which is what you requested at the time – hopefully). If you want a moderator then this needs to have been specified on the application as well. Assuming it’s granted, you can then get yourself an air rifle of any power greater of than 12 fpe  in the calibre you have permission for.

    ​As mentioned elsewhere the Police have to have good cause not to grant you permission, but a 120fpe .303 for squirrels is probably going to be frowned on, and getting multiple “slots” (guns) of the same or similar calibres will need “good reason” e.g. night vision and a day vision set ups would probably be acceptable, assuming all other criteria have been met.

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