Events Quail Creek Airgun Club - SAGUARO CLASSIC - April 26,27,28, 2019

Any further info? Where to stay, etc? Interested since RMAC is so limited. 

@bull_mtn, still looking for itinerary for the event this coming weekend. Haven't seen times, etc. for the practices and events. Thanks!

Mike

SCHEDULE OF EVENTS:

Friday, April 26: 8:00 – 4:00-- Registration and Practice​

Saturday April 27: 8:00 – 8:45-- Setup and Practice

9:00 – 12:00—25 Meter, 3 Target Competition

12:00 – 1:00 – Lunch at Range

1:00 – 1:45 – Setup and Practice

2:00 – 4:00 – 75 yard qualifier

6:00 – 9:00 – Banquet, Madera Clubhouse, Silent Auction,

50/50 Auction​

Sunday April 28: 8:00 – 8:45 – Setup and Practice

9:00 – 11:30 – 100 Yard Finals

11:30 – 12:30 – Lunch at Range

12:30 – 3:00 – Chicken Little 4 Round Competition

3:00 – 4:00 -- Awards

Practice day today at the Saguaro Classic in Green Valley AZ. Stayed calm early, but by 0900 it was breezy and shifting around quickly.

Practiced Chicken Little with the .22 EDGun R3 Long, damn that Little Chicken is hard to hit at 70 yards. I was only batting about .500. All other 15 targets pretty easy and close to 100% on 6 tries. 

Practiced at 100 yard with .30 Bobcat. Didn’t bother with 75 yards. Qualifier is tomorrow at 75, but thought 100 practice was better. Winds were moving the 44.75 grain pellet about 1 to 1.5 mil dots windage. Tried the 50.1 grain for 3 mags but not as predictable as the 44.75 pellets. 

Warm up and sight in at 0800 to 0845 Saturday. 25M BR starts 0900. Didn’t bother with .22 Crown, that was ready to go when I left San Diego. Very hot here, low 90s, and sunny. Ready to rock tomorrow, 25 M BR and 75 Y qualifier for the 100 on Sunday. 

First day completed. Shot 25M in morning and 75 yard in the afternoon. Winds were breezy in the morning, and outright windy in the afternoon. 

Not sure of my score in 25M, but I know it wasn’t top 3. For 75 Y we had EBR sized targets, 16 bullseyes, and shot 4 pellets at each bullseye. Possible 640 score. I shot 564, which I think was good for 5th. This was supposed to be the qualifier for the 100 Y tomorrow. (Top ten). But the Club changed the rules and now everyone will shoot 100 Y and that score will be combined with the 75 Y for an overall score... not sure what I think of that. 

Tomorrow morning is the 100 Y “final” in the morning, and the Chicken Little in the afternoon. More to follow.

One thing I considered odd was that for the 75 Y targets, the person to your right scored your target. I noticed some doing it correctly, but some scoring quite liberally. I’d recommend in the future that the Club have two guys score all the targets to ensure accuracy and fairness.

From what you're saying it seems less than organized with rule changes happening during the competition. Not a good look. Did you draw benches or were they assigned before the match? Also are you rotating benches between relays? 

And I have to add that when someone figures out or finds diablo(devil/demon) pellets I'd like to see them.

And I have to add that when someone figures out or finds diablo(devil/demon) pellets I'd like to see them.

Click to expand...

Ay, los pelletos de diablo son muy malos.

Benches were assigned per day, so I had 14 Saturday and 7 Sunday. Unlike at EBR where bench selection could be a factor, at this range it’s not. 

Finished the tournament today. 100Y in morning and Chicken Little after lunch. Winning score was 456-4x. Unfortunately for me, I shot 449-5x. We had ten targets on the paper, plus three sighter targets. We were to put 5 shots into each target, possible top score of 500. 

As has been the case lately, I made a dumb ass mistake that cost me the win in the Long Range Event. My upper right target had two 8s and two 10s, but no fifth shot. Had I got the average of the four, which would be a 9, I’d have shot 458-5x, which would have won by two points. Even a 7 would have given me 456-5x for the win (I only had a few (2?) 7s on the entire 50 shot card, and no 6s). Yeah, I know - shoulda, coulda, woulda... Man, do I feel stupid!

Anyway, the Chicken Little was fun, I scored 60, winning score was 63 so not too far behind. That event was the most fun of the events we shot. Other than Speed Silo at EBR 2018, this was my first silhouette competition.

The Club put on a good tournament. They are still ironing out some issues, like changing the rules after the start of the tournament with counting the 75Y and the 100Y combined, when the 75Y was supposed to be a qualifier for the 100Y.

I don’t consider their “winner” the actual winner, and instead consider the shooter that scored 456-4X in the 100Y event today to be the true winner in the long range event.

Let me explain.

The 75Y had a possible score of 640, plus the 75 yard range is MUCH easier than 100Y for anyone that has shot in these events. The 100Y had a possible score of 500. But, the club just added the two scores together vice using the top ten 75Y scores to qualify to shoot in the 100Y. So not only did they not follow their own rules, the 75Y was weighted more heavily than the 100Y, since the scores were higher in the 75Y. I'm sure once they look back on this and think about it they'll realize the mistake in judgement that was made. So, following their own rules that we all signed up for, the 100Y best score was the true winner, NOT the shooter that had the highest combined score. If I hadn't been a dumb ass as described above, I'd have been seriously disappointed...

Its a very nice range, super nice people and I highly recommend you attend next year. They will certainly learn from this year and improve the event as they progress. Thanks Quail Creek Airgun Club!!! BZ!

FYI, I shot the .30 FX Bobcat Terminator in the 100Y and the .22 EDGun R3 Long in the Chicken Little. Interesting observation. There were many RAWs shooting, some Thomas, a few FX Crowns, a few Red Wolf HP, plus my Bobcat and Edgun, and a couple of FX Boss. I didn’t see a single Impact! Things that make you go hmmm... Also, there were quite a few rigs there with values well in excess of $5,000. Nightforce ATAC-R and Schmidt & Bender scopes, custom RAW and Thomas rifles, etc. It was fun looking at all the high end equipment. 

This message was deleted because it posted incomplete and I redid it and posted it below...By the time I did this I discovered that there were some replies...I hope this is not confusing.

Thank you,



AZ

@azuaro, I appreciate your input and opinion. Awesome shooting in the 25M event! FYI, I knew of no “shooters meeting”, since it wasn’t announced. I had no problem with those that didn’t qualify shooting for fun in the 100Y. My point was we paid the entry fee and entered with the events defined in advance. So I still consider Jack to be the winner in the Long Range event. IMHO only. . And yes, I know who you are, but didn’t know your medical condition. You’re an awesome shooter, and to shoot handicapped by a medical condition makes it even more impressive. I hope your recovery is going well...

PS., I made no negative comments about the benches. Please review my posts. My comments were constructive in nature and intended as friendly advice for the club in future events. I have already emailed Jack personally with these observations and suggestions.

Readers and members participating in this thread:

I don't participate in this forum and mostly all members don't know who I am, a good friend of mine with whom I was sharing the insights of the Saguaro Classic referred me to this thread and since I have a slightly different opinion about this particular SAGUARO CLASSIC than some members, I decided to share my opinion and experience...

First and most important is the fact that the Saguaro Classic is one of the 2 most important and prestigious competitions that are held in Arizona…The Quail Creek Club is where the EBR started many years ago before moving to Mesa in Phoenix and this club is very well known for organizing fun impeccable matches all year around.

Please allow me to extend some issues that have been touched in this thread:

1. The benches were not “assigned”, the benches were sorted and assigned accordingly which is the way it should be done vs. being imposed at will by the organizers of the event, or picked up “first come first serve” basis.
2. 75 and 100 were shot independently and then both scores combined for a grand winner AT THE REQUEST of many shooters including me, this change happened just before the tournament and this is why it was not posted. The rationale behind this change was that some of us had no guns for 75 or for 100 or for both events and I am probably the more responsible because I asked If I could shoot 75 and 100 without being part of the match, I asked because the only gun I had was not appropriate for 75 and 100. I had a .177 cal. Heavy Varmint RAW I that I brought to AZ for shooting 25 and we all know that no .177 shots competitively past 50-60 when 8-10 MPH winds and gusts of 15-18 MPH are present. I wanted to discover how my gun would compare to the cream of the crop shooting the highest scores at those distances but without being part of the match...This can only be done shooting simultaneously with those prime 75 & 100 M guns.
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   Some other shooters heard my request and concerns and joined me one way or the other and some others wanted to shoot 1 class only, the board of directors of the club then had a private meeting and opted for 75 & 100 to be shot individually and then to combine the scores for a grand total winner, the only requirement was that everyone would have to shoot for score …It turned out to be a win-win situation for everyone because we all have a chance to shoot 75 and to 100, the benches were FULL with 21 shooters on the line all the time vs. 10 finalists for the 100 event. In order to have 20 finalists 2 relays of 20 qualifiers would've been necessary but It is impossible to have 2 or more relays in order to have 20 finalists on the line when a club accommodates four shooting events in 1 ½ days with a planned award ceremony by noon of the second day.
   
   All in all the event was magnificent…A very friendly environment combined with excellent organization, very good food, a classy banquet at the Quail Creek club house that included a raffle and a silent auction and good music within a relaxed but very competitive environment surrounded with tons of camaraderie…The Saguaro Classic SHINED!
   
   I was in Arizona on a waiting list for a major cranial surgery and not for shooting, I had surgery on the Thursday prior to the competition and was sent home convalescent…The house at Quail Creek is conveniently located 4.5 minutes away from the airgun club so I "conveniently" forgot my doctor’s instructions and presented to the match with the only gun I brought to AZ…A .177 cal. Heavy Varmint RAW. I actually asked the directors of the match if I could participate because I was under heavy medications that distorted my sight and make me feel nauseous…While this is different scenario than being intoxicated, I wanted to be lawful and respectful and to comply with rules and regulations of the gun club. I also asked mostly all competitors for their approval and nobody objected my participation under those circumstances.
   
   For you to know who I am Centercut, If you were there I was the only shooter with the patch-bandage around his face…
   
   The line was full (20 benches) and an extra bench needed to be added to accommodate Don Fujimori’s son, so there were 21 shooters in all events….I shot 25 M with two springers, 13 unlimited guns and 4 other Heavy varmint good rifles…The Unlimited guns included an Unlimited Thomas (maybe more guns like this), many High Power Red Wolf Daystates and several high powered FX’s.
   
   I won the HV class and also shot the highest score shot at 25M in this event…I achieved a 742 -24 X’s that is coincidentally the same score I shot at the USA Nationals in Mesa last October of 2018 where I won the HV class National Championship, the score at the nationals was coincidentally also the highest score shot at that championship.
   
   The second highest score shot at the Saguaro Classic in 25 was achieved with the Unlimited Thomas of Scott Seyler who shot a 734-24X’s…Scott won the unlimited class and let’s keep in mind that winds ranging from 8-12 MPH with the frequent 14-16 MPH gusts were prevalent, shooting perfect scores under these conditions are almost impossible and the fact that Scott Seyler shot a 250-11X in his 2nd card with his Unlimited Class Thomas is outstanding shooting!… For comparison my second target was also my best and I shot a 249-9X… Congratulations Scott, good shooting!
   
   I intended to shoot 75 with a new Impact MKII that I acquired 4 days before the competition, but the preparation didn’t materialize and I shot 75 M with this same .177 Heavy Varmint RAW I used for 25...I wanted to know how a low power .177 caliber behaves past 55-60 yards competing against .22's, .25's and 30's with much more power…Precession and Nutation were there in every shot I fired, I could see the pellet flying perfectly past the 50 Y flag and then at around 60-65 it would make weird movements and behave TERRIBLE!...I actually needed to shoot 2-2 ½ ft. to the sides of the bulls eye (wind) in order to just impact the target but with a pellet with no control, good precision was impossible to achieve…This kind of aiming/shooting is more guessing than benchrest shooting, nevertheless I learned what I wanted to learn about my gun shooting farther than 55+ yards with high winds.
   
   I wasn’t going to shoot 100 because if shooting at 75 with my gun was a bad idea, shooting at 100 with that same gun would’ve been disastrous, a waste of time and a waste of good pellets...Then a very good friend on mine asked me to shoot her .30 cal. HM RAW at 100…I didn’t know the gun so I shot a few sighters after starting the match only to discover that her vision and mine were very different and that I needed to adjust the ocular for a clearer reticle, 4 MOA in elevation and a few clicks to the windage turret of that Schmidt and Bender 5-25X PM II magnificent scope…I was not pleased with my score by any means, but the shooting gods were on my side and I finished first place tied with Jack Mercer, we both shot a 456 but Jack shot one more X than I did and I took 1st consolation prize (second)…
   
   I felt very nauseous and my vision and balance were really distorted and those high 90’s temperatures and sun in AZ didn’t help much, so I went home for a couple of hours where I took a cold shower and rehydrated with fresh lemonade and didn’t participate in the on going Chicken Little event…I came back 2 hours later and just on time for the award ceremony...I received a trophy, a gold and a silver medals and a check...I donated the check for some ongoing projects at the range and kept the awards.
   
   As I mentioned above, the organization of the Saguaro Classic was impeccable…The club made the shoot very fun and all events were shot timely…To me this has been the most fun event I’ve shot in the last 10-15 years (Rimfire BR, FITA and animal round archery, Airgun BR, Sporting Clays and ISSF 10 M airguns)…In my perspective camaraderie within a very highly competitive environment added to good organization and timely events are VERY HARD to achieve but the Saguaro Classic shined in this sense…Very few people give credit to the organizers and very few people are aware of the much planning and efforts necessary to make an event successful and fun…
   
   The club had a "Preparation For The Saguaro Classic" shoot 2 weeks prior to this event and we all shot with the same high standards of the Saguaro including food and music...That shot was also FULL HOUSE (all 20 benches) but I only shot 25 M Heavy Varmint which I also won together with shooting the highest overall score in 25 M competing against Open and Unlimited guns...
   
   Thank you Jack Mercer (President), Mike Schlesinger (Match Director), Gary who is the Financial man of the club and a very good Chef, Ted Zazeski who besides being an outstanding Nuclear Engineer retired from serving the USA government is a very good and fun DISC JOCKEY since his college years and who played very good music throughout the tournament on top or remaining behind the microphone during the matches, thank you Bob Tomb who is the secretary of the club and who is a fighter jet veteran from the Vietnam era…
   
   Thank you all shooters who made this event a great experience!...I just met some of you this spring but be sure that l will be back to this SAGUARO CLASSIC shoot next year and afterwards if I am still around…Even though I was and still am convalescent and didn’t feel very well, I had lots of fun and laughter and to me that is worth more than gold!
   
   Best regards for all members,
   
   AZ