Problem Replacing Texan bottle with 3650 psi CF bottle

Your captive nut that holds the bottle to the frame is not in the proper position in either picture. It should be hard against the frame! I would start there. However mine exhibits the same response and same fitment with the new bottle . The next action is turning up the hammer spring tension since the pressure is a LOT higher and it is likely valve locked at the lower factory spring tension.

Now having said all that I had installed my bottle and not fire a test shot. I just found that the gun will not even launch a projectile out of the barrel and now has a slug lodged in the barrel even at maximum hammer spring tension. Mine is an older Texan so I bet they have gone to a heavier spring and possibly other parts as well.

Currently I would not recommend this as a "Drop-In" for any Texan owners till we get to the bottom of the issue! I will call Rachel or Leah at AirForce tomorrow for answers!

It is plainly Valve Lock because of the higher pressure. The older Texans were made for 3000 PSI fill. Even at maximum hammer spring tension mine will not open the valve so there are obvious other changes (spring I bet) that have been made in the guns designed for this bottle valve assembly. I'll see what AirForce says tomorrow!

You might try 3400 psi for 350 grn and lighter slugs and 3600 psi for heavier slugs. I am doing some testing myself! Personally I think a heavier spring is the permanent fix. More tomorrow.

Do you know if this will be an issue with the new condors that have the tx2 steel tank? I'm planning on picking up a CF tank as an upgrade.

I run an aftermarket CF Tank on my Condor .257. I also run a heavier hammer and spring on my .257 Condor with a Doug Nobel Valve. Can't say what running a Stock Condor with more than 3K PSI would do but valve lock is a definite possibility on any system designed for 3K that is run on more pressure. Short answer is you will have to just try it unless Doug reads this thread and gives his expertise on the subject! He IS the AF platform Guru!

From your pictures it appears the tophats are at different distances forward. Both valves are under pressure so each is fully forward?

That distance is set by the stem connecting the poppet to the tophat, either the stem is the wrong length or perhaps either the poppet or tophat is not on the stem correctly.

And the spring definitely needs to be stronger for a higher pressure fill. Doug rebuilt my .457 Texan to a higher powered gun and one of the items he modified was adding in his selected/custom spring. AirForce is just copying his work (he'd shown it to them a couple years ago)

The new bottle setup has more space between the loading "tab" on the barrel and the "tophat" than the old setup had both in the OP's pictures and on my gun as well. As long as the pressure and weight restrictions I posted above are adhered to then the bottle will work with stock spring maxed out but IMHO a new stronger spring is Needed to place the "power adjuster" in the middle of it's travel and not maxed out.

What velocity are you getting with the 350 gr slugs? I’ve only tested the 290 and at 3400 psi and the hammer spring maxed out I’m getting 485 FPS. When the pressure drops to 2700 psi the velocity goes back up to 810 FPS, but the whole point of purchasing this bottle was to be able to shoot them at 920-950 FPS so I have a flatter trajectory out to 100 yards. I have no interest in shooting 500 gr slugs at 800 FPS.

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The first issue is easy to explain and that is the TX2 valve has a shorter stroke than the original valve and that’s why it sits back a bit further. The valve lock though seems to be a bit of a mystery because the exact condition cannot be replicated one rifle to the next. As a matter of fact Dan Lowe from Team AirgunDepot.com won EBR Big Bore shooting NSA 350s at full 3625 with no valve lock. With that said though, I’ve gotten multiple reports of valve lock (to include myself) on 350 grain and lighter slugs at the full 3625 PSI.

My issue come to find out is that my gauge is 300-400 PSI off on my bottle so when I fill to the red I’m actually at 3900-4000 PSI! So once I figured that out and only fill to about 3300-3400 on my bottle's gauge and now I don’t get valve lock. The other issue though I’ve seen is the reports I’m getting from some Texan owners who got their drop in kits and experiencing valve lock at 3625 PSI and I am wondering if the age / earlier serial numbers of the Texan is a factor. I am not sure if there is spring fatigue going on or if AF did some kind of quiet rolling development over the last few years when shooters were reporting valve lock at 3000 PSI when the Texan first came out. I do think the shortened top hat valve stroke might be causing a slight amount of hammer spring pre-tension power loss and a SLIGHTLY heavier spring is the fix for all of these issues. That is my theory and not official word from AF. I’m telling everyone who experiences this to call into Rachel and Leah at AF HQ to get these issues documented.

I have a new Texan 45 LLS that Valve Locks at 3000 PSI my first shot is always 300/400 fps slower than the rest of the shots my fine tune is @75% after the first shot my power curve climbs rapidly, however if I fill to 2800 I am at my peak in the curve and can get 3 shot with a really good group.

My next three drops about 2 mil (depending on weight of slug) after that I have a consistent drop on each shot till my gun dumps 

The gauge on my .45 is also a bit light about 400 psi 

HI I had same issue with my texan the gages are not accurate . I upgraded to this one and Man is it spot on , anyone with the new valve should be using a quality gage , If gage is off and it over charges or you shoot too light a bullet it can lock ,



https://hunters-supply.com/pressure-gauge-p-2132.html

My question is why do people use the gauge on the tank to fill there guns? Those gauges are for reference. What's wrong with the nice big 2.5" gauge on the fill whip.

 

My question is why do people use the gauge on the tank to fill there guns? Those gauges are for reference. What's wrong with the nice big 2.5" gauge on the fill whip.

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Here is a better question that should be asked 

What's wrong with a 1500 dollar gun having an accurate air gauge from the factory

This is an American made product we pay for that American made quality we should get it and expect it.

As for the gauge being for reference I use all the gauges and go with the lowest number when in question of the accuracy

Because there is not a high quality 1" gauge. Most fill whips have a descent gauge on them. So it's simple. You fill off a fill whip gauge and look at the gun gauge when your done for reference. The most I have seen a 2.5" gauge off has been 100 psi. I buy 1" gauges that I pay $15 ea for for my 257 valves I sell. I have seen them as much as 300 psi off right out of the box. 

There is a reason I have $200 gauges on my fill whips and a $600 gauge to test regs .

I have springs for them that open the valve at 3600 psi. Same length as the stock spring

I’m loving my new Texan carbine and the power but the spin loc system and tank right next to my face is one of the worst setups I have ever experienced. On three separate occasions the rifle has dumped the entire air out while shooting.
Would like to see AirForce bring a new design out. 

You get something, you lose something.

You are getting higher powered shots BUT you get less of them. To shoot the valves that have had the poppet closing spring removed you can't shoot the bottle down as low as before. I fill to 3400 (verified PSI, not the 1" gauge which is 200 PSI off on my gun) and shoot three shots then refill.

Plenty for hunting.

I also can chose to carry a small 4500 bottle to give me one refill in the field.

I've not disassembled one of the new valves but Doug (Dyotat100) found if you pulled the poppet spring out of the valve you got another 50 FPS velocity with the same fill. So only ENOUGH air flow closes the valve during firing. Drop the system pressure too low and the valve stays open during the shot and it dumps. I've had it happen until I learned to keep the pressure above 2000 on my Dyotat100 reworked rifle. I was told that AirForce was leaving the spring out on the new valves to gain that bit of velocity. Yes/No?

No, it's not a perfect system but it's physics. Not a AF spokesman / endorsee but I have some Texans in my Airgun collection because they are a tool that does a job. You have to use a tool within it's limitations. I tell people who complain that AF should have a magazine to figure one out themselves and they would sell a lot of them.... But they DON'T because they can't figure one out either.(because this style of action it would be VERY hard, I sure don't see how. If you make it so different that you COULD use a magazine it would not have the advantages the current bottle/valve/action have)

Same with the valve, want the extra power then there will be limitations on it compaired to the old version. If you can think of a better way, design and build one and prove your's works. It's a 'free' country, if you are smart enough to 'build a better mousetrap', people will buy your idea/product.

I had the AfricanAirOrdance spring in my .457 Texan and it was not fitting well nor working right. Doug changed it out to his spring when he upgraded my rifle and it works perfectly. Maybe he will sell a lot of springs, haha. Great guy and has a lot of experience with the AF platform.

Note also that with an upgraded valve giving more FPE, I lost some flexibility on bullet weights so I'm not surprised to see the new Texan valve being a bit finicky. Physics rules everything.