Pellets V Slugs The latest from Matt Dubber
- Thread starter AirSupply
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Very nice! Thanks for the link.
Lol, just after I mentioned the disappointing results he mentioned he was getting from the crown in that dassie/hyrax hunting video. I wonder whats different here? Slug barrel prototype?
Lol, just after I mentioned the disappointing results he mentioned he was getting from the crown in that dassie/hyrax hunting video. I wonder whats different here? Slug barrel prototype?
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It sounds like it. Still sugar coating bad news a little in the fact we’re not going to get diablo pellet accuracy from slugs.
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Don’t rule them out just yet. The projectiles are here (and getting better all the time) It’s just a matter of choosing the right barrel. FX will eventually have a proper slug barrel and barrel interchangeability will become more common in other brands. Will there ever be an airgun that shoots pellets / bullets equally as well? Doubtful!
Slugs aren’t for everyone anyway. You need just the right twist rate and per my understanding, an un-choked barre l of precisely the right bore diameter. It takes “pellet fussy” to another level!
BUT - if you live to push the limits of what an airgun is capable of, slugs are the way forward. Interchangeable barrels aside, I think we’re about to see small bore slug rifles becoming alot more viable. Consider the ballistics - the Nielsen .22 cal, 30 grain bullets are in the .09 BC range (.09!!) and accuracy is getting better by the day as “they ?” zero in on the right speed, bore, twist.
Yesterday was a good mail day. Hope to be shooting some small bore / high BC stuff very soon. The .308 cal 99 grain will be flying next week ?
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That is only half the .message.... Short range and still air the pellet is .ore precise.
Long range, the bullet has much more energy AND less interfere from the wind.
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I would like to see some slug /pellet testing comparisons from people who aren’t sponsored by the pellet manufacturers. Personally I believe in certain situations slugs can be more accurate. Testing is needed so we can know what to use in different wind conditions and distances. Then we have to look at barrel twist rates and hopefully we can find a compromise as changing barrels with ammo won’t be convenient while hunting. Maybe someone will come up with a over/under rifle with one barrel optimized for pellets and the other for slugs. I’m sure the rifle designers can figure out how to do that and keep the weight and balance in line with what shooters will be comfortable with.
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Same point from different perspectives?
No arguing about energy retention of course. That's a given. If that was the most important thing though, more people would have made an effort to tune their guns to shoot prometheus piledrivers. They're basically slugs and have been around ages, with an amazing BC. Regardless through they're just not as accurate. I don't see a profound difference between them and the current slugs yet.
Matt showed quite well in some videos he missed with slugs due to being unused to less wind drift and drop. I think you can be very precise in the wind with a pellet you know.
It's less about the amount of wind drift than whether the shooter understands it and can predict it accurately. Nobody I'm aware of has dared try shooting slugs at EBR (non big bore events of course) yet and it seems like something that can buck the wind should be golden there.
I'd be wary to draw too many conclusions from one guy's Friday afternoon groups (even if that guy is Matt) from a gun that it sounds like he hasn't shot that much with (Probably the one that came in the mail on that clickbait youtube post
) - Just bad science that.Lots of potential to slugs but definitely not at pellet precision yet. How long until they are is anyone's guess.
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The biggest problem is twist. Slugs are almost always going to be heavier and longer than pellets.
No pellet barrel with a longer twist will stabilize the heavier bullets.
And a quicker twist slug barrel will over-stabilize pellets.
I have had good results with air rifles with slugs if there is NO choke and the twist is fast enough (and the gun can push the heavier pellet fast enough to be effective FPE wise).
No pellet barrel with a longer twist will stabilize the heavier bullets.
And a quicker twist slug barrel will over-stabilize pellets.
I have had good results with air rifles with slugs if there is NO choke and the twist is fast enough (and the gun can push the heavier pellet fast enough to be effective FPE wise).
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@Brian10956 “I would like to see some slug /pellet testing comparisons from people who aren’t sponsored by the pellet manufacturers”
In air gunning it’s just grassroots R&D and marketing. No one is trying to mislead anyone. I paid for everything in that picture except for experimental .45 slugs. Of course Matt gets “free” ammo to test, but should he (or anyone) pay to be a guinea pig?
I think NSA is way ahead of the competition in the small bore slug movement as well. It’s like the chicken and the egg and reminds me of when the .45 Texan came out. Good rifle with a great barrel and NO good ammo! Now we have the opposite (and more complex) problem. The equipment needs to evolve to do the new ammo justice.
Someone mentioned the absence of slugs at EBR... Slugs are not allowed at EBR outside of big bore. Hmmm ? The next couple of years are going to be interesting.
Brian
@airgunner.usa
In air gunning it’s just grassroots R&D and marketing. No one is trying to mislead anyone. I paid for everything in that picture except for experimental .45 slugs. Of course Matt gets “free” ammo to test, but should he (or anyone) pay to be a guinea pig?
I think NSA is way ahead of the competition in the small bore slug movement as well. It’s like the chicken and the egg and reminds me of when the .45 Texan came out. Good rifle with a great barrel and NO good ammo! Now we have the opposite (and more complex) problem. The equipment needs to evolve to do the new ammo justice.
Someone mentioned the absence of slugs at EBR... Slugs are not allowed at EBR outside of big bore. Hmmm ? The next couple of years are going to be interesting.
Brian
@airgunner.usa
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Brian.in mi I wasn’t meaning to be referring to you in that post it was all Matt. Sorry for not being clearer. If a pellet/slug company wants to give samples to individual shooters to test a design that great I was more concerned that the pellet companies may be interested it tilting the results the slug manufacturers I feel are just looking for another business nitch. In the end when I have the correct barrel I will purchase some slugs and what I discover will be the only thing that matters for my shooting is probably different from the “Professionals” As far as the big boys who have found a way to earn a living by doing reviews I judge them video by video where I try to gain knowledge. Overall I enjoy Matt’s videos I’ve learned a lot from them. But I believe in the old saying a dog won’t bite the hand that’s feeds him. Lately I see too many hands in many videos. Joe and his scope videos as well as Tomcat are probably the most accurate ones being done and they happens to be my favorites to watch as it comes from the heart, I don’t get that same feeling from many others
Now as soon as FX has a pellet barrel available I will give it a try and report back with my results .
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I suppose from a personal view I’m thinking will getting a slug liner and shooing slugs help me to do the type of shooting I do ‘better’
Id say I’m quite typical in that I strive moa accuracy in the 50-100+ range. Both for target and small animals like starlings. If I could shoot the same way but more reliably,further and in more breezy conditions I’d give slugs a go.
Because fx are already well known for there accuracy especially with the new smooth x barrels expectation of what they’ll deliver are high.
There are a lot of smooth x barrel owner out there
that may not have the experience of those that have already experimented with slugs thinking there about to take a big step forward.
Matt might be managing there expectations. I’d like to have actually seen the groups!
Time will tell
Michael
Id say I’m quite typical in that I strive moa accuracy in the 50-100+ range. Both for target and small animals like starlings. If I could shoot the same way but more reliably,further and in more breezy conditions I’d give slugs a go.
Because fx are already well known for there accuracy especially with the new smooth x barrels expectation of what they’ll deliver are high.
There are a lot of smooth x barrel owner out there
that may not have the experience of those that have already experimented with slugs thinking there about to take a big step forward.
Matt might be managing there expectations. I’d like to have actually seen the groups!
Time will tell
Michael
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Ok I didn’t read the description posted with the video. The slugs shot under 1moa/100y!!!
Here’s the description
So, I was hoping for a calm morning but arrived at the farm to find winds blowing from 7-12mph. So what was supposed to be a precision test with the Wildcat mk2 turned into an experiment to see if the wind drift data that my ballistics calculator gives me is accurate or not.
I intentionally set up my target so that the wind was blowing from my right (i wanted a crosswind factor), and I shot groups at both 50 and 100m.
I tested:
1) JSB 18.1gr (BC 0.033) at 920fps
2) JSB 25.4gr Redesigned (BC 0.04) at 900fps
3) NIelsen Specialty Ammo 23gr (BC 0.075) at 900fps
At 50m there was not much separating the three groups. The smallest group was shot with the 25.4gr Monsters.
BUT at 100m the results were completely different:
1) JSB 18.1gr:
-Group Size: 2.67 MOA
-Vertical Drop: 4.7 Mils
-Horizontal Drift: 2 Mils
2) JSB 25.4gr:
-Group Size: 6 MOA (looks like they started to destabilize past 50m)
-Vertical Drop: 4.7 Mils
-Horizontal Drift: 1.6 Mils
3) NSA Slugs:
-Group Size: 0.89 MOA
-Vertical Drop: 3.7 Mils
-Horizontal Drift: 0.7 Mils
Keep in mind that the results may have been completely different in calm conditions. But my point is proven: BC is KING.
Here’s the description
So, I was hoping for a calm morning but arrived at the farm to find winds blowing from 7-12mph. So what was supposed to be a precision test with the Wildcat mk2 turned into an experiment to see if the wind drift data that my ballistics calculator gives me is accurate or not.
I intentionally set up my target so that the wind was blowing from my right (i wanted a crosswind factor), and I shot groups at both 50 and 100m.
I tested:
1) JSB 18.1gr (BC 0.033) at 920fps
2) JSB 25.4gr Redesigned (BC 0.04) at 900fps
3) NIelsen Specialty Ammo 23gr (BC 0.075) at 900fps
At 50m there was not much separating the three groups. The smallest group was shot with the 25.4gr Monsters.
BUT at 100m the results were completely different:
1) JSB 18.1gr:
-Group Size: 2.67 MOA
-Vertical Drop: 4.7 Mils
-Horizontal Drift: 2 Mils
2) JSB 25.4gr:
-Group Size: 6 MOA (looks like they started to destabilize past 50m)
-Vertical Drop: 4.7 Mils
-Horizontal Drift: 1.6 Mils
3) NSA Slugs:
-Group Size: 0.89 MOA
-Vertical Drop: 3.7 Mils
-Horizontal Drift: 0.7 Mils
Keep in mind that the results may have been completely different in calm conditions. But my point is proven: BC is KING.
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In my .177 S500 i have seen 2/3 less drift at 50yd with NSA slugs. They are moving at 710-715fps. I do not know the barrels twist rate exactly but it is a Lw in the 17-18:1 ratio.
These groups are an uninterrupted comparison between pellets and slugs. The AA 10.34's were shot first, then the slugs, no cleaning between rounds. It was a very windy day and though the tighter groups were shot during calmer moments the wind never stopped moving. I have shot at 100yd with the same slugs paying no mind to the wind and 8/10 were inside 3.5". The next chance I have to shoot at 100yd will be with wind flags and more time.
These groups are an uninterrupted comparison between pellets and slugs. The AA 10.34's were shot first, then the slugs, no cleaning between rounds. It was a very windy day and though the tighter groups were shot during calmer moments the wind never stopped moving. I have shot at 100yd with the same slugs paying no mind to the wind and 8/10 were inside 3.5". The next chance I have to shoot at 100yd will be with wind flags and more time.
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