Pellet expansion not what I had hoped for

Jump to latest Follow Reply
J

jonny75904

Member
Dec 31, 2016
252
6
Texas, United States
 I first started using JSB pellets in my Benjamin armada when I first started shooting it. But my favorite palate has been The barracuda hunter extreme. Last summer I did a rather extensive ballistics test of pellets i. 177 caliber, and liked what I saw with the barracuda Hunter line of pellets . after having shot JSB and barracudas for the last few months, it is clear the barracudas transfer a lot of energy. However, I recently went hunting, and got a headshot at just the right angle where the pellet went into the ground near where the squirrel fell, and I was able to retrieve the pallet . I was disappointed to see that the pellet have not expanded much, if at all. Granted, a small target like a squirrel does not offer much opportunity for expansion, but in my testing The barracuda hunter extreme expanded the most and and the shortest distance. 

I may need to look into a different pallet. Perhaps I will get the predator poly mag a try next

this is from a headshot, and you can see where some of the bone fused into the pallet. 

4df5fcbcf6b00fc1b4095d0660ccee7e.jpg
 
All kinds of metals are added to lead to make them harder than pure lead. Tin is the primary one, although antimony is often use alone or in combination with tin. Obviously, the actual percentage of content of these alloying metals is important too. But, unless you have an analysis done, you really don't know what has been used. Further, I suspect it changes from time to time, as most pellet lead is from recycled sources. I might add, that Rockwell hardness tests are difficult to perform on pellets, if for no other reason than their size. 

All this said, about all you can do anecdotally, is ask others what their experiences have been. In my case, most of my shooting is with .25 caliber airguns. I use AirArms 25.4 grain pellets. Supposedly, they're the same alloy as the JBS 25.39 grain pellets—just the dies used are different. Whatever, but they appear to be softer than the Barracudas I once tried, yet I'd say they're still harder than I would like. Even using modeling clay (which is harder than ballistic gel), they don't expand very much (45 FPE), if at all. 

Lastly, I don't think making pellets out of pure lead will ever happen, especially after seeing the machinery that makes them in action (How's It Made TV show). 
 
Upvote 0
Don't worry about whether the pellet expands on a head shot on a small animal like that. If you hit brain, you're good, even with zero expansion.

When you take a body shot, THAT's when you want expansion. You want that pellet to expand the wound channel for more collateral damage inside the target, dumping as much energy as possible. (ideally not even exiting)

In my experience, Polymags can be better, in terms of expansion and wound channel diameter, but are much less efficient, aerodynamically. The result is that they tend not to be as accurate at higher velocities. Baracuda Hunters fly almost as well as a dome, but still offer some expansion. 
 
Upvote 0
"Alan"All kinds of metals are added to lead to make them harder than pure lead. Tin is the primary one, although antimony is often use alone or in combination with tin. Obviously, the actual percentage of content of these alloying metals is important too. But, unless you have an analysis done, you really don't know what has been used. Further, I suspect it changes from time to time, as most pellet lead is from recycled sources. I might add, that Rockwell hardness tests are difficult to perform on pellets, if for no other reason than their size. 

All this said, about all you can do anecdotally, is ask others what their experiences have been. In my case, most of my shooting is with .25 caliber airguns. I use AirArms 25.4 grain pellets. Supposedly, they're the same alloy as the JBS 25.39 grain pellets—just the dies used are different. Whatever, but they appear to be softer than the Barracudas I once tried, yet I'd say they're still harder than I would like. Even using modeling clay (which is harder than ballistic gel), they don't expand very much (45 FPE), if at all. 

Lastly, I don't think making pellets out of pure lead will ever happen, especially after seeing the machinery that makes them in action (How's It Made TV show).
Click to expand...
I'd like to see that. Do you know what season that was or episode number? 
 
Upvote 0
 I guess my thing is, even on a headshot and can cause pain and injury even for a few short seconds. I don’t shoot to cause pain-it is just to keep the population numbers manageable due to my unique situation. I’m only interested in using the pallets that have the greatest expansion and energy transfer in the shortest distance. I guess I’m just disappointed my favorite pellet does not perform like I had hoped. I may try poly mags, I just want something that’s going to open and expand easily 
 
Upvote 0
I may have overlooked it, but what are your velocities? The same pellet can expand different depending on the velocity at impact and depending on the alloy used to make the pellet, the optimal expansion velocity will vary from pellet to pellet. Many HP pellets can overexpand and shred if shot too fast, while others won’t expand at all unless they reach a certain velocity. 

Also think about the texture of your target. How it expands hitting a squirrel skull may be different than how it impacts skin and lung tissue. 

I agree expansion isn’t a big deal on a head shot in rodent sized game. Shooting a squirrel in the head with a .177 pellet would exceed the equivilent if shooting a human in the head with a non expanding .50. You’re fragging the brain either way. 

There is no deadlier pellet IMHO than a Barracuda domed (non expanding) when sent thru a brain at sufficent fpe for a full pass thru. Nothing seems to drop animals faster from squirrel to coon to beyond. 
 
Upvote 0
"jonny75904" I guess my thing is, even on a headshot and can cause pain and injury even for a few short seconds. I don’t shoot to cause pain-it is just to keep the population numbers manageable due to my unique situation. I’m only interested in using the pallets that have the greatest expansion and energy transfer in the shortest distance. I guess I’m just disappointed my favorite pellet does not perform like I had hoped. I may try poly mags, I just want something that’s going to open and expand easily
Click to expand...
I'm not quite sure what your expectation is, but I can't think of a quicker way to cause the death of an animal than a well placed head shot. As Travis indicated, the size of the wound channel in that application isn't really relevant. If you shoot a squirrel in the head with sufficient velocity and energy to take out enough neural tissue, he's done whether the pellet stays or passes through. 

You are equating a larger diameter wound channel with instant death, and I don't think that correlates well all the time. There are many variables that need to be in place for that kind of absolute. 

There are two ways you are going to exterminate life quickly and humanely with a projectile; 

1. Central Nervous System hit causing immediate shut down of life systems (all organ support and communication).

2. Central Circulatory System hit causing cessation of oxygenated blood to vital organ support, generally facilitated by a quick loss of blood pressure. 

Yes, you could hit the animal in a secondary organ like a kidney or stomach and the eventual loss of blood could lead to death, but I'm assuming this would be unintentional and certainly not a hunter's goal. 

I guess the argument could be made if a direct hit to the heart, lungs, or other vital circulatory structures, the diameter of the wound channel could lead to a quicker loss of blood pressure and facilitate death faster. 

For me, that's why I take head shots 99% of the time. Take out the CPU, and the wound channel diameter does not come into play. 

BTW, I applaud your concern and efforts to facilitate humane cessation of life. 

Good luck in obtaining your goals. 
 
Upvote 0
Jonny,
I'm accustomed to TN Grey Squirrel and a JSB .177 at any power with a head shot is 99% of the time lights out, just turned off and fell. As it should be. Never worried about expansion - but JSB do seem to be one of the softest pellets- period, only a flawless shot.

Beachgunner, an H&N pellet video ( note they START with unknown - ish- recycled lead and new lead. JSB starts with 100% and then controls their own, also they do the round ball trick.
H&N

and I cant fins the JSB video right now , just one of my personal beliefs regarding JSB quality is there "99.91% Clean" manufacturing environment. Anyone who's worked in machining esp/cnc knows even dust is an enemy. Sorry if OT.
JSB info from PA:
How does JSB make pellets?[/QUOTE]https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2015/08/how-does-jsb-make-pellets/embed/

And back OT:

IF needing to take a body shot do consider using Wad Cutters. You can not deliver more punch in a diablo pellet Never tried then on bady shots but a 16g .177 wad cutter and a head shot even at 600fps , they do not suffer.


John


 
Upvote 0
"spysir"Jonny,
I'm accustomed to TN Grey Squirrel and a JSB .177 at any power with a head shot is 99% of the time lights out, just turned off and fell. As it should be. Never worried about expansion - but JSB do seem to be one of the softest pellets- period, only a flawless shot.

Beachgunner, an H&N pellet video ( note they START with unknown - ish- recycled lead and new lead. JSB starts with 100% and then controls their own, also they do the round ball trick.
H&N

and I cant fins the JSB video right now , just one of my personal beliefs regarding JSB quality is there "99.91% Clean" manufacturing environment. Anyone who's worked in machining esp/cnc knows even dust is an enemy. Sorry if OT.
JSB info from PA:
How does JSB make pellets?
Click to expand...
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2015/08/how-does-jsb-make-pellets/embed/

And back OT:

IF needing to take a body shot do consider using Wad Cutters. You can not deliver more punch in a diablo pellet Never tried then on bady shots but a 16g .177 wad cutter and a head shot even at 600fps , they do not suffer.


John


[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info spysir. Very interesting. 
 
Upvote 0
 thank you all So very much for all the useful information. I guess to clarify, I equate the effectiveness of a headshot to one major factor, and a number of ancillary factors. The major factor I consider is impulse of momentum -In other words, how much energy is transferred, along with how much motion in the target is generated. It comes down to how much energy gets absorbed by the target-in my case squirrel head. 

if I shoot a 50 FPE pellet, and it exits the target at 49 FPE, that’s no good. And the amount of energy transferred depends mostly on the surface area of the pellet. so in that regard, my emphasis on pallet expansion is based on energy transfer to the target 
 
Upvote 0
fa4a7fc825111d2256ae720953f5cb38.jpg
From yesterday. I strictly shoot / hunt polymags in my .25 small game rig. If you’re on Instagram, go to @airgunner.usa for the video. I’m “only” shooting them at 880 fps/ 44 fpe, but you’d think it was 80 fpe the way it rips them out of the tree. They’re also VERY accurate at typical small game distance, which for me is 20-50 yards. 

15405e416bc003fb59c1e41b5011c592.jpg
689c362bac1adcb360832f5fd5c05019.jpg
 
Upvote 0
Hey Jonny, I don’t know the math, but look at it this way as well. British hunters are killing bunnies at 60 yards plus, often times with .177s mostly using sub 12FPE guns. That’s 12FPE at the muzzle, not 60 yards away. These bunnies and squirrels just flop right over, no questions asked. Shot placement will still be more important. There are some folk that have done the math and calculated out energy loss from muzzle to impact zone at some 30 or 50 yards. Hope this helps a bit. 
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Resources
Menu