PCP Expectations w/ Slugs…
- Thread starter Centercut
- Start date
I do want to make clear when I said the below:
{I even heard second hand about a VERY good shooter that got 5 or 6 - .22 Superior Heavy liners in 600mm, and every one was a non-shooter...}
I was NOT talking about Ernest, but a friend I know that's almost always in the top ten in numerous events at RMAC and EBR...
{I even heard second hand about a VERY good shooter that got 5 or 6 - .22 Superior Heavy liners in 600mm, and every one was a non-shooter...}
I was NOT talking about Ernest, but a friend I know that's almost always in the top ten in numerous events at RMAC and EBR...
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I'll leave it alone even though there are some facts that haven't been shared. I don't want to derail this thread.
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After trying to make a .22 gun that could shoot both pellets and slugs with match accuracy - it did not work in my case. If I were you, I might try getting rid of the choke and going with heavier slugs that are more appropriate for the twist rate. Maybe ~40gr for the Superior Heavy, maybe 45gr for the Slug A?
No guarantees. I still have a Slug A .22 fitted for an Armada that showed some promise when shooting 25.4gr RD pellets and NSA slugs, but it was never quite there. It's still choked. Plan for the future is to try heavier slugs at 80-100fpe and then cut off the choke if I'm still not satisfied,
No guarantees. I still have a Slug A .22 fitted for an Armada that showed some promise when shooting 25.4gr RD pellets and NSA slugs, but it was never quite there. It's still choked. Plan for the future is to try heavier slugs at 80-100fpe and then cut off the choke if I'm still not satisfied,
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● I really appreciate posters who show real life group sizes (not cherry-picked and then declared "all day" — or letting readers assume "all day"...).
● Real life scores (of known targets, or bulls' size stated).
● Real life hunting videos (not all misses and imperfect shots edited out).
I really appreciated the discussions we had some time ago discussing measures of precision: amounts of shots per group; amounts of groups; total shots; statistic validity and reliability of the measures; etc. Maybe we could, at least at the AGN level, define what a good measure of precision is.... (For example: The GTA forum defined what a worthy long range shot group looks like, with classifications for shooter achievements. I'm not saying GTA's definition is a good one, but that they had the courage and the cooperation to define a standard.)Just my musings in the morning, after not seeing a single shotable pigeon despite getting up early.
Matthias
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For me centercut or thomasair paper target pics are the best benchmark for these
andall the rest showing the left hand thumb beside a group is just for taking fun pictures.
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I’d like members to understand that in my OP, I was NOT intentionally putting down FX, but only using my most recent experience with one size, type, and caliber barrel liner. My point which some seem to have missed is this could happen with ANY brand of barrel. All of them have ones that are generally very good (the majority), then ones that are substandard, the small minority, and ones that are truly awesome, a very small minority. My point is that all manufacturers are subject to this, and that it takes time and effort to find that magic barrel that shoots brilliantly. Honestly, I can’t say what the best slug barrel is, but it is my opinion that the older solid .30 FX ST barrels are the best and most accurate pellet barrels ever made to date. Slug barrels that I’ve had great success with are the .22 Daystate ART barrel with 25.4 gr JSB KOs, the LW barrel on an older .22 EDGun R3 Long with 20.2 gr NSA .217, and a .25 FX Slug A liner in 700mm with 43.5 gr NSA. But just because the above has worked for me is no guarantee that exactly the same combo will work for you.
Its also recently been brought to my attention that there are those that “think” Team Centercut members get special barrels or guns to compete with. Sorry to burst some bubbles, but that just isn’t true. In fact, if you look at the guns the 11 Team Members shoot in competition at 100 yards, you’ll find 2 Daystate Red Wolfs, 2 FX Crowns, 4 FX Impacts, 1 RAW, 1 Kalibrgun Cricket2, and 1 Thomas HP-X. So unless FX is sending hands full of barrel liners to my guys and I don’t know about it, I’d say we get our guns pretty much just like the rest of you. ‘Nuff said.
Its also recently been brought to my attention that there are those that “think” Team Centercut members get special barrels or guns to compete with. Sorry to burst some bubbles, but that just isn’t true. In fact, if you look at the guns the 11 Team Members shoot in competition at 100 yards, you’ll find 2 Daystate Red Wolfs, 2 FX Crowns, 4 FX Impacts, 1 RAW, 1 Kalibrgun Cricket2, and 1 Thomas HP-X. So unless FX is sending hands full of barrel liners to my guys and I don’t know about it, I’d say we get our guns pretty much just like the rest of you. ‘Nuff said.
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Wow. this thread has been censored. There are several comments that are gone since the last I read
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I'm surprised this tread was not deleted already... the problem is not some defects on manufacturing.. all companies at some point have defects...is the lies n lies n lies to our face.. when you sponsor someone n that person gives his personal word looking to the camera..for his own benefit.. n said that liner after liner will be a miror of each other. No defects just perfection n trashed every other barrel manufacturer... that is not good business n you don't see any other brand with this kind of propaganda... most of my comments I made it upset because my old 177 n .22 cricket shot slugs great so great that my best shot was made with one 200y 3 shot..with a 4x14 scope.. my factory airforce condor .22 barrel does awesome with boat tail up to 40g ..n my 3 uragans shot slugs with perfection... no liner B .A .C ...etc .needed..I don't compete I'm occasional shooter .. so I don't need all that turning...feel really sorry for all those newbie that instead of purchasing a awesome used cricket or taipan or edgun at a deal price..go instead for the you tube fantasy ..
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Not gonna bash you tube and the reviewers, I think this should sum up what CENTERCUT is trying to get across.
I call CC, tell him to ship me a tuned gun and a list of ammo it likes best. He ships it to me 10 hours away. I get it, unbox the Ammo types he told me to get from pyramid air, and set up to shoot. What % do you think my targets are going to look like the ones he sent me(like vendors do saying it’s functionally shooting well)at a substantial distance of 50 and more yards? it’s just like the story he shared of the guy he sold a gun to.
Do I call him and say WTF? Why can’t I shoot groups like his? Something is certainly wrong with the gun, right? Wrong. Lots of variables between leaving his hands and getting to me.
How many of you have been handed a gun from someone who you thought was shooting lights out, and as soon as you put your face on the cheek rest you see he’s been using 3 power at the 100 yard targets, the ocular is way out of focus, and the scope is mounted with a lot of cant. Works for him, though.
I call CC, tell him to ship me a tuned gun and a list of ammo it likes best. He ships it to me 10 hours away. I get it, unbox the Ammo types he told me to get from pyramid air, and set up to shoot. What % do you think my targets are going to look like the ones he sent me(like vendors do saying it’s functionally shooting well)at a substantial distance of 50 and more yards? it’s just like the story he shared of the guy he sold a gun to.
Do I call him and say WTF? Why can’t I shoot groups like his? Something is certainly wrong with the gun, right? Wrong. Lots of variables between leaving his hands and getting to me.
How many of you have been handed a gun from someone who you thought was shooting lights out, and as soon as you put your face on the cheek rest you see he’s been using 3 power at the 100 yard targets, the ocular is way out of focus, and the scope is mounted with a lot of cant. Works for him, though.
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My takeaways from this post that could affects My tune (and there are always more):
Thank you all.
Patrick
- No two people are the same
- Each air rifle and its respective components are different, therefore, same tune different results
- My environment, on many levels
- The dynamics of My Tune. There is more to those numbers than "FPS and FPE"
- Ammunition choices and how the manufacture was feeling that day, with My ammo...
- My Influences from outside "knowledge" sources
- My expectations
- My attitude
- My abilities
- My understanding
- There is no Pixy Dust for my Slugs, Pellets or Barrels
- There is no one Magic Tune
- Be diligent
- Work efficiently and work hard at your goal
- Keep detailed records
- Having many friends here on AGN that have vast amounts more knowledge than I is a tremendous resource
Thank you all.
Patrick
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Here is what gave me FX Impact Mk2 PP .30 shorty at 50 meters indoors. Here are 5 shots at that distance with FX Hybrid Slugs.
That was the best group. Others are within MOA.
I applied my mod described here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/fx-impact-mk2-slower-first-shot-no-reg-creep/
Many thanks to @Vetmx for helping me with the tune.
That was the best group. Others are within MOA.
I applied my mod described here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/fx-impact-mk2-slower-first-shot-no-reg-creep/
Many thanks to @Vetmx for helping me with the tune.
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Here is what gave me FX Impact Mk2 PP .30 shorty at 50 meters indoors. Here are 5 shots at that distance with FX Hybrid Slugs.
That was the best group. Others are within MOA.
I applied my mod described here: https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/fx-impact-mk2-slower-first-shot-no-reg-creep/
Many thanks to @Vetmx for helping me with the tune.
SEEKER!! That’s an awesome group! You say you apprenticed under VETMX?! Yeah he knows his stuff.
Glad this thread got revived. In the last month I’ve learned a lot about myself as a shooter. I am proof that no matter what top tier Gun you have it’s no guarantee I’ll be getting a call to be the next Carlos Hathcock. Two things I’ve learned-
1. Shoot n see targets are truly deceiving, giving you a false sense that you’re shooting great. I’ve been living a lie. All this time I thought I was pretty good behind the scope till I tried one of the targets Dave Larson sent me. 100 3/8” diameter circles on an 8.5 x 11 paper. 10 across 10 high. After shooting at all those circles I realized all shoot n see targets are good for are for initial sight in after you’ve pulled the barrel off for a cleaning session. Just to get you close. But to outright hit the bulls and start chest puffin, what you thought was the center of bulls eye was 98% probably outside of it, but the splatter burst effect makes it look like a great shot/group. It was an eye opener for sure, so no more shoot n see targets for serious target shooting for me.
I wonder what would happen if gun reviewers on YouTube used regular stock paper targets instead of shoot n see’s? Less likes?
2. Those monster redesigns in 22 caliber, 25.4 grains truly aren’t steady! All this time I’ve read Centercuts posts about how they aren’t consistent, too many fliers. Well, I had to see for myself. Two in a row touching and third and fourth 2” to 3” away. If you didn’t know this you’d be constantly adjusting your turrets, but I knew better. I’m thinking I better cancel my 20 tins I have on back order with a vendor!
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Shoot'n'see targets are so american. I use a high density paper so that the edges of the holes are clearly visible with no tearing. Then I use a caliper to measure these edges. I calculate the mean average value and I subtract the caliber. This gives me an accurate value (CTC) of how well my tune shoots. A ragged hole in shoot'n'see target can be more than 20mm CTC wide which is not even close to the declared ragged hole. It all gives false impression leading to distorted conclusion.
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I’ve often thought the same thing of the shoot n see targets, which is why I don’t shoot them. You get a false sense of security.
Nothing wrong with shooting groups, but again, if you don’t shoot targets for score you can also deceive yourself.
And yes, the RDMs when they are good can be amazing. But if you’re not meticulous in sorting for weight, head size and condition, they’ll break your heart when you least expect it….
Nothing wrong with shooting groups, but again, if you don’t shoot targets for score you can also deceive yourself.
And yes, the RDMs when they are good can be amazing. But if you’re not meticulous in sorting for weight, head size and condition, they’ll break your heart when you least expect it….
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Please elaborate.
When I hit the bullseye on a splatter burst target at 50 yards or 100 yards, what is deceptive about that?
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What is "deceptive" about those holes?
There is no splatter burst on the white backing of the target. Oftentimes I will turn the Shoot n See target over just to verify the measurement of the holes.
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