PA's new "LE" cf tanks

I would have expected a lower price for an old bottle like this.
I was just talking about this very thing in a another thread.
Tom

From the PA web site:
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Recent DOT regulation (SP-16320) changes have led to some amazing developments for airgunners! Life Extended tanks may be used up to an additional 15 years from their born on date. For example, a tank manufactured in the year 2002, would have previously expired in 2017. Now, this tank may be usable until 2032 once Life Extended!If the cost of a brand new carbon fiber air cylinder has kept you from getting into PCP airguns, a Life Extended cylinder may be the answer! These carbon fiber cylinders are lightweight and capable of storing up to 4500 psi of high pressure air. Potentially providing thousands of shots for your PCP airguns!Of course, just like brand new carbon fiber SCBA cylinders, they must pass testing every 5 years from the Life Extension date to remain in service (Ex. A tank Life Extended in 2017, wouldn’t require a retest until 2022). This testing can only be done by Digital Wave Corporation for Life Extended tanks and will cost about the same as a standard hydro test plus shipping and handling.These cylinders come with a brand new 300 BAR DIN valve and fill assembly that ends in a female quick disconnect fitting, ready to fill your PCP airguns. The valve and fill assembly feature stainless steel fittings, a 24 in. microbore hose and a rubberized hand wheel for controlled filling. The integrated pressure gauge lets you know when you're reaching your full charge, and the bleed valve is conveniently located on the valve.
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​One thing that makes me wonder is the statement "This testing can only be done by Digital Wave Corporation for Life Extended tanks and will cost about the same as a standard hydro test plus shipping and handling." The last time I asked (and the cost may have changed), it was approx. $300 to have the MAE testing done by Digital Wave Corp. I think they give a discount to large corporations and government, but it was still between $150 and $200 each tank. I've had three tanks hydro'd in the past two years and each one was $30. So in my book, not "about the same".
​On a good note, they do come with a DIN300 fill rig with gage ($99), and a microbore hose with fittings ($69). So, you're getting the tank for whatever the asking price is minus approx. $170. If you buy an SCBA tank with 3 or 4 years service life left on eBay its usually around $150, plus about $50 for the fill rig. 
​Its up to you to decide which is the better deal. All DOT-E-10915 and 10945 tanks are eligible for this extension if you'd like to do it yourself by buying and sending to DWE once it is at the 15 year lifetime for a 5 year extension. Maybe PA arranged a special price deal for the MAE testing if you buy the old tank from them? Lots of unanswered questions still...

Strangely PA is keeping this business for it self and not sharing with dealers through the AV side of the business. For now at least!

"Centercut"
​One thing that makes me wonder is the statement "This testing can only be done by Digital Wave Corporation for Life Extended tanks and will cost about the same as a standard hydro test plus shipping and handling." The last time I asked (and the cost may have changed), it was approx. $300 to have the MAE testing done by Digital Wave Corp. I think they give a discount to large corporations and government, but it was still between $150 and $200 each tank. I've had three tanks hydro'd in the past two years and each one was $30. So in my book, not "about the same".
​On a good note, they do come with a DIN300 fill rig with gage ($99), and a microbore hose with fittings ($69). So, you're getting the tank for whatever the asking price is minus approx. $170. If you buy an SCBA tank with 3 or 4 years service life left on eBay its usually around $150, plus about $50 for the fill rig. 
​Its up to you to decide which is the better deal. All DOT-E-10915 and 10945 tanks are eligible for this extension if you'd like to do it yourself by buying and sending to DWE once it is at the 15 year lifetime for a 5 year extension. Maybe PA arranged a special price deal for the MAE testing if you buy the old tank from them? Lots of unanswered questions still...

Click to expand...

There's a difference between MAE testing and Life Extension. MAE is part of the test process to determine if they tank can be Life Extended, or it is comparable to a hydro if being done to a tank in it's first 15 years of life. Life Extension is the process of being Ok'd for that "second lifetime" if you will. I was quoted a similar price on Life Extension when this was originally put out there last year. But the cost for just the re-cert MAE test (whether you have a first 15 year tank or LE tank) is competitive with a hydro. Locally, I've had to pay $40-50 for a hydro through a local shop, Digital Wave told me less than that for a re-cert, but you have to factor shipping in as well.

Thanks, that's a totally different price than what I was quoted via e-mail from DWC a year or so ago. Maybe that was for the first Life Extension to certify under SP-16320, and future 5 year extensions were cheaper? In that case, and assuming that the first LE is done prior to sale as part of the PA tank offer, the secondary and tertiary MAEs could be cheaper than the initial one for whatever reason. Not sure about that.

Modal Acoustic Emission (MAE) is the process by which the tank is inspected. Its nothing new, and has been around for many years and used to inspect high pressure air flasks on submarines and other diving systems in place of hydrostatic testing. Life Extension (LE) is authorized by Special Permission (SP), in this case SP-16320 to Digital Wave Corporation (DWC).

Certain CFFC tanks made to ISO 11119-2 are authorized for LE by companies that have an SP to perform MAE as a periodic 5 year test (15 to 30 years timeframe) on CFFC tanks. Some (but not all) of those can be identified by the DOT-E-10915 and DOT-E-10945 on the label. My Scott 45 minute SCBA tank and my two Interspiro 60 minute SCBA tanks have the correct DOT marking to be eligible for LE. I bought all three used on eBay. I have not had any MAE performed on these tanks.

​Once it is determined that the tank is eligible for LE, an MAE can be performed by an authorized company at the 15 year life and life extended for an additional 5 years at a time past the 15 year service life to a maximum of 30 years. Locally here in San Diego, tank hydros cost approx $30 per tank. Hope this helps...

Centercut - Yes, the $300 number is for life extension of a tank that is past it's first 15 years. Once Life Extended, the cost of the MAE test to recert it each 5 years is much less and in line with hydro costs. Once the tank has the SP-16320 sticker, you're just paying for the recert testing, not the full battery of LE testing. You're correct that MAE testing has been around for a long time, it being used for civilian use tanks is new though and has only been allowed by the DOT since 2017. Before that, Digital Wave was doing SCBA tanks for the Navy starting in 2012. My understanding from the guys at DW (and from light reading of the SP) is that they are the only place in the country that can Life Extend an SCBA tank under that SP at this time and that goes for the 5 year recert tests as well.

John - I honestly don't remember how this all came about. It was two years ago now that the conversations began. I'm not sure if DW approached us or if it was the other way around. I know they've had the fire industry side of the LE tanks locked down since they started doing them for civilian markets in 2017. Either way, if you have more specific questions, let me know and I will help as much as I can.

Tyler

Yes, many of you have asked and called about being able to send in your own out of date cylinders. Currently Digital Wave is looking at adding that option for airgun owners. Life extension is a bit more complicated process than just a quick hydro test. Also, how do they handle cylinders that might fail the test either on the CGA visual inspection or the actual MAE life extension? Do they charge the customer either way? Do they ship the useless failed cylinder back? If not, what does Digital Wave do with that cylinder? How do they handle hundreds if not thousands of individual orders for single cylinders that must be repackaged and sent back to many locations. There is a lot of logistics here guys that needs to be put in place to have a successful offering. You screw it up once and you can only imagine the posts you will see on this forum. They want to do this right. So please give them some time.

OK. You kind of sound like an employee Mark.
If a tank fails its destroyed. Yes the customer pays.
They handle tanks one at a time or automate the process, 
Or someone else will soon
It's not that difficult

Help me out on this one, as to why I should buy a recertified tank -

Not quite apples to apples, but it's close.

I can buy a new 72 cf tank with valves, gauges and such with a 15 year life for just under $600 from Air tanks for sale with a per year cost of about $40 plus hydro's done locally.
The 66 cf recertified tank with 10 years left is $390 giving me a per year cost of about $40 plus hydro's that must be done by Digital Wave.
The 88cf recertified tank is also $425 with 9 years left, making it more expensive. 

I don't see the advantage????????