Tuning Overfilled Hatsan Vortex Type 2 piston (Hatsan 130/135) Help

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PopEye99

PopEye99

Member
Jul 1, 2020
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Skåne, Sweden
Hi guys, 

A PCP question for a springer (I've put the almost same question in the springer forum as well).

I've got an overfilled gas piston (still in the rifle). How can I release the air?

It's maximum fill rate is 150bar, the non release valve must have been stuck or something. When connected to my scuba tank, the pressure jumped to 280bar (recently filled scuba tank).

I don't dare trying to remove the piston, do you think it's possible to drill a small hole to bleed it or will it explode?

You can drill a hole in a PCP bottle (when installing a regulator) without breaking the structural integrity... But it's no in the high pressure zone.. 

Any ideas? 

Cheers 
 
The gas ram's has a piston pre filled with compressed air (or nitrogen) instead of a spring. That makes you able to adjust the power. The Magnum gas ram's has over 30 fp-lb.

This piston has a max pressure of 150 bar, right now it's at 280 bar... And I can't bleed the pressure out... 

The Hatsan gas ram's has the same filling port as the Hatsan PCP's. 
IMG_20210427_191623.1619555950.jpg
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That must mean there's a one way valve holding the pressure in. Any way to use an o-ring probe or something similar to push the valve open? Have you contacted Hatsan USA for advice? Just to reiterate, NEVER drill into a pressurized container!!!

Edit: guess you're not the only one who's done it. I Googled it & found this

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=76483.0
 
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That must mean there's a one way valve holding the pressure in. Any way to use an o-ring probe or something similar to push the valve open? Have you contacted Hatsan USA for advice? Just to reiterate, NEVER drill into a pressurized container!!!

Edit: guess you're not the only one who's done it. I Googled it & found this

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=76483.0
Click to expand...

I've ordered a spare piston. I'll take a closer look when I have it outside the rifle.
I have contacted Hatsan USA, we'll see what they say.
I tried the tip in the thread you mentioned, didn't work, ended up with even higher pressure and empty scuba tank.
 
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If I recall what I've read, there is a bleed screw but the cylinder must be removed from the gun to use it. Not certain, but I believe that I read that. Another thing you might try if it is actually holding all that pressure. Put the probe back in, attach the fill line, add just a bit of pressure, and try to just barely "crack" the bleed valve. Sometimes a very slow bleed can cause a check valve to stay open. This might bleed off some of the pressure.
 
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If I recall what I've read, there is a bleed screw but the cylinder must be removed from the gun to use it. Not certain, but I believe that I read that. Another thing you might try if it is actually holding all that pressure. Put the probe back in, attach the fill line, add just a bit of pressure, and try to just barely "crack" the bleed valve. Sometimes a very slow bleed can cause a check valve to stay open. This might bleed off some of the pressure.
Click to expand...

There should be a bleed screw on the other side on Type 2 piston, I got the hole (in the cylinder) on the other side but no corresponding bleed screw on the piston.This is what mine should look like https://youtu.be/-WUrYNfZ_n0?t=63 . My guess is that they gave away with the bleed screw on the Swedish 10J/7.38 ft-lb version, the spare one I ordered is full power and should have the bleed screw.

There's a very nice guy I got in contact with who's been very helpful and in the same situation as me, short story; He drilled a small hole and degassed it.

You would need a drill press, a drill guide, a shrapnel barrier around, mind any ricochets, and a rope to actuate the drill press, preferably standing as far away as possible ☝️ The pressure is very high but the volume of the piston is very small. The volume of the air cylinder in the Hatsan BT65 is 255cc, a rough guess no more than 32cc in the piston.


I'll give it a go this weekend 👍
 
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If I recall what I've read, there is a bleed screw but the cylinder must be removed from the gun to use it. Not certain, but I believe that I read that. Another thing you might try if it is actually holding all that pressure. Put the probe back in, attach the fill line, add just a bit of pressure, and try to just barely "crack" the bleed valve. Sometimes a very slow bleed can cause a check valve to stay open. This might bleed off some of the pressure.
Click to expand...

There should be a bleed screw on the other side on Type 2 piston, I got the hole (in the cylinder) on the other side but no corresponding bleed screw on the piston.This is what mine should look like 

https://youtu.be/-WUrYNfZ_n0?t=63 .
My guess is that they gave away with the bleed screw on the Swedish 10J/7.38 ft-lb version, the spare one I ordered is full power and should have the bleed screw.



There's a very nice guy I got in contact with who's been very helpful and in the same situation as me, short story; He drilled a small hole and degassed it.

You would need a drill press, a drill guide, a shrapnel barrier around, mind any ricochets, and a rope to actuate the drill press, preferably standing as far away as possible ☝️ The pressure is very high but the volume of the piston is very small. The volume of the air cylinder in the Hatsan BT65 is 255cc, a rough guess no more than 32cc in the piston.


I'll give it a go this weekend 👍
Click to expand...

Full reading of a post is good. I'd suggest trying what I last noted first. Actually that is all I'd suggest trying. I wouln't go near it with any kind of drill.
 
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I followed Gerry52's link with the slow bleed (some posts up).

In order for the valve to open you have to have slightly higher pressure than in the piston (or the receiving end), that's how I ended up with 280 bar. It was 270, got slightly above and slowly releasing pressure in hope of the valve staying open. No success. 

The valve never "clicked" open as it does on my BT65.

I'm going to be at least 3m away when I drill it. 
 
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I followed Gerry52's link with the slow bleed (some posts up).

In order for the valve to open you have to have slightly higher pressure than in the piston (or the receiving end), that's how I ended up with 280 bar. It was 270, got slightly above and slowly releasing pressure in hope of the valve staying open. No success. 

The valve never "clicked" open as it does on my BT65.

I'm going to be at least 3m away when I drill it.
Click to expand...

My mistake-I didn't see that you had attempted that already. The bleed must be opened REALLY slowly and barely cracked for such an "accidental" bleedoff to occur but you hear about it happening when NOT wanted so I thought it might be a viable way to proceed. Hope you get it fixed safely.
 
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Following the same procedure as "mikeyb".

A drill guide for the drill, an impact resistant screen, 3m rope, and I had my motorcycle helmet on.

I rigged everything up this morning, but kept putting it off, quite a bit nervous.
I finally gave it a go .... As mikeyb said - what an anticlimax, just a slow hiss, hard to tell if it was the air releasing or something rubbing, hard to tell over the motor of the drill press.

Hope this helps if anyone gets into the same situation. But, remember you have to know what you are doing, a common garage compressor tank is 8 bar, this is 280 bar.

IMG_20210501_104218.1619867363.jpg
IMG_20210501_112340.1619867363.jpg
IMG_20210501_123317.1619867363.jpg
IMG_20210501_124033.1619867363.jpg

 
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Im in a similar situation, i dont have the bleed screw visible. My gas ram isnt overfilled in my 125 sniper. 

Why not drill a hole so you can access the bleed screw?
Click to expand...

If it's not overfilled and the only thing that's stopping you from bleeding it (providing you have the bleed screw) just take the piston out of the cylinder and bleed it....

But ,as I wrote earlier "My guess is that they gave away with the bleed screw on the Swedish 10J/7.38 ft-lb version, the spare one I ordered is full power and should have the bleed screw." Guess what ? The full power did,'t have a bleed screw either. Maybe they've stopped producing them with a bleed screw ?
Anyway, the full power I got, and I'm not messing with it, is shooting at around 34J, likes the JSB Exact Jumbo 15.89gr, I'll keep it at that. It's just my spare rifle.

Under ~180bar I wouldn't have any concerns taking it out of the cylinder.
 
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Did you buy the full power gas ram from a swedish site?

But in theory, you could drill your own hole, matchning up the bleed screw right?

I wanted to try diffrent pressures and chrony it. Thats why I would like to bleed fast and efficient.

I havent looked inside my gun yet, lack of knowledge so far.
Click to expand...

Yes, most sites has them, baraluftvapen, cabom, rodastjarnan osv.
Take out the piston first and see if you have the bleed screw. Hatsan is more complicated than a Weihrauch or a Diana but not that much. Check out Mike Ellingsworth on youtube, he has guides on taking apart Hatsan and on the Quattro trigger assembly
Filling is no problem (!), but use a hand pump and not a fill bottle like I did.
 
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Yes, most sites has them, baraluftvapen, cabom, rodastjarnan osv.
Take out the piston first and see if you have the bleed screw. Hatsan is more complicated than a Weihrauch or a Diana but not that much. Check out Mike Ellingsworth on youtube, he has guides on taking apart Hatsan and on the Quattro trigger assembly
Filling is no problem (!), but use a hand pump and not a fill bottle like I did.
Click to expand...

Great info. Thank you! Would be interesting to know if Vortex stopped manufacturing them. 
 
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