Ok I grant you that a level can help some people shoot better,butt for the
- Thread starter boscoebrea
- Start date
Whatever it takes to *avoid cant*...
Click the link, it'll bring you to a "cant simulator". It's awesome, and Very Helpful to people that need a visual..
There are slider bars that are centered to zero. left=neg / right=pos, etc.
You slide them, and in real-time, the app will show the POI in relation to the position of the cant [scope/rifle]
http://www.arld1.com/targetplottrajectory3.html
Screenshot:
Sam -
Click the link, it'll bring you to a "cant simulator". It's awesome, and Very Helpful to people that need a visual..
There are slider bars that are centered to zero. left=neg / right=pos, etc.
You slide them, and in real-time, the app will show the POI in relation to the position of the cant [scope/rifle]
http://www.arld1.com/targetplottrajectory3.html
Screenshot:
Sam -
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Canted SCOPE symptoms do not occur unless you are holding-over or holding-under your last zero. The angle of scope cant and the farther you hold (or click) from your last zero will determine the severity of the error.
Canted GUN symptoms are determined by the angle of cant and amount of drop. They have nothing to do with the sight/scope.
"1. canted - departing or being caused to depart from the true vertical or horizontal; "
There are multiple things on a rifle that can be "canted". With SCOPE cant, the canting error is a line of sight deviation with respect to the bore. With GUN cant, the canting error is a trajectory deviation with respect to gravity.
SCOPE cant changes the POA.
GUN cant changes the POI.
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I can’t understand cant. Most of us are going to attempt to hold the vertical cross hair level up and down and the horizontal aspect of the reticle level right to left. The scope level helps you do that and for the best accuracy especially at long distances it has to be an aid. The bench rest guys use them. I would think the higher the scope is mounted above the gun the easier it would be to introduce a canting error. I think the field target guns use them for that reason. Right?
I follow the scope cant and gun cant . Think of it this way. If the scope is canted the elevation adjustment is not tracking straight on the vertical or horizontal axis. You can see that easily sighting in a laser sight. If it’s not level the laser will not track straight up and down or left to right .
Ive seen off hand shooters cant their guns and they had to adjust the windage as well as elevation at longer yardages
I follow the scope cant and gun cant . Think of it this way. If the scope is canted the elevation adjustment is not tracking straight on the vertical or horizontal axis. You can see that easily sighting in a laser sight. If it’s not level the laser will not track straight up and down or left to right .
Ive seen off hand shooters cant their guns and they had to adjust the windage as well as elevation at longer yardages
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To whom?
90% of people who mount a scope , do it wrong.
You can have the most leveled bubble known to man and if your scope is mounted wrong.... guess whaT.
A scope mounted bubble level is NOT used to level the scope to the gun as the OP states. I could teach a class on this, but for now. Think about it.
I have been a member here for 2 weeks and I have noticed one thing, Nobody knows the difference between accuracy and precision. Precision is when you can put 5 shots into 1/4 inch at 50 yards. Accuracy is when you can put 5 shots into the bullseye 1/4 inch at 50 yards. There is a distinct difference and it changes every single day. Not one single gun on this forum shoots to the exact point of aim from day to day. So if you're wondering why, your gun was dead on yesterday, and its low left today. ____????????
A I
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That is a common misconception. Earlier in the thread is an article I linked to that demonstrates scope height does not influence cant error.
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Quiqly you're back.
If the OP has the installed that level on his scope so that when it is indicating level, his horizontal cross hair is also level, can't he then use this "level" along with another level sitting his receiver to insure the scope is properly aligned with the gun? This happens to be EXACTLY how I do it. My scope is PROPERLY mounted. (My vertical axis cuts right thru the center of my bore)
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@DirtyDovi,
Thank you for leading me to the site with the cant simulator. There are lots of useful simulators on there that are helping me visualize topics of interest.
Thank you for leading me to the site with the cant simulator. There are lots of useful simulators on there that are helping me visualize topics of interest.
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@mmahoney,
You're very welcome, and I'm glad that you found that simulator helpful/useful!
I for one am left-handed/right-brained, and find it difficult to comprehend things just by 'reading'...
Its ridiculously easy though if I do something hands on, or, have a visual.
And that simulator does just that..
For me, I noticed the whole 'cant effect' back as a kid shooting my springers..
I always thought there must be an issue, but, was it with me? or the guns?
It took forever for it all to finally 'slick'.
Then I ran across that sim, played with it for a few seconds,
and thought to myself: OMG, this is what I needed all those years ago! haha
Sam -
You're very welcome, and I'm glad that you found that simulator helpful/useful!
I for one am left-handed/right-brained, and find it difficult to comprehend things just by 'reading'...
Its ridiculously easy though if I do something hands on, or, have a visual.
And that simulator does just that..
For me, I noticed the whole 'cant effect' back as a kid shooting my springers..
I always thought there must be an issue, but, was it with me? or the guns?
It took forever for it all to finally 'slick'.
Then I ran across that sim, played with it for a few seconds,
and thought to myself: OMG, this is what I needed all those years ago! haha
Sam -
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Well, not exactly. Here is why. When you level the scope, you are leveling the wrong thing.
Most recticles in most scopes have some degree of cant. It's entirely possible to perfectly level your scope tube and turrets using your method while inducing more recticle cant. Rather than the meeting the objective.
You could have three levels. One on the scope tube. One on the receiver, and one on the tang of the stock......wherein one could triangulate levels. It would appear that everything is perfect and perfectly level. But if the recticle is not accounted for, what you end up with is a perfectly level scope main body while inducing more cant and doing more harm than good. I am not saying that this is what you have done. I'm merely saying that this is what you need to be aware of.
A. I.
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Quigly - apparently reading is not your strong suit. If you had actually read what I typed you would see that I am "leveling" my reticle. Here is the process I use. I place my scope in a v-block and align my "vertical" cross hair with a weighted string that I have hanging from a tree branch. I then, while keeping the cross hair plumb, install a level on my scope tube with the level bubble centered. Now I put my scope on the gun, put the gun on my bags and put a 2nd level on my receiver. Now I keep the receiver level and rotate the scope until the bubble (in the level attached to the scope) is centered. This then causes my vertical crosshair to be directly inline with my bore. Now when I hold the gun so that the scope level is indicating a level condition, there is ZERO cant. My vertical crosshair is now plumb and directly inline with the bore.
I couldn't give a rast's a$$ about how the turrets or tube line up with anything, YOU added that little tidbit.
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Thank you all for input,I have learned from it and I think others have to.I just read another article about cant on "Sniper's Hide" and for me I think what he points out was something I was trying to say ....without enough knowledge to really say it.
and to be on the level with everyone here ,the best teachers are the ones that listen and learn from others.
And wow what a bunch of different ideas and ways people manage to do the same thing,LOL.
and to be on the level with everyone here ,the best teachers are the ones that listen and learn from others.
And wow what a bunch of different ideas and ways people manage to do the same thing,LOL.
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First of all. Who is Quigly? Secondly , why the confrontational rhetoric? I do not know you. Is this pick on the new guy week?
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