New to Air Guns? Here's some advice...

Right on Brother, nuff said!

I don't think you appreciate the really good expensive airguns until you experience other guns both good and bad. And you might also learn that sometimes a $500 gun can be just as good as one of the expensive guns. 

I'm a strong believer that a newbie to the sport/hobby should do a lot of research then start with one of the $200-$500 guns. I only recommend someone jump right to a $1000+ gun if they want to big game hunt. 

Absolutely Dead On!

I get sh×t cramps when a person who is interested in our sport asks for "first gun advice" and has individuals suggest $2,000.00+ (Rifle ONLY!?!) models!

This is a joke,right? I mean...C'MON!! 

Hell,I started out with a Daisy Spittin' Image mod. 1894. BB gun...worked (literally) my way up to a Crosman 760 and from there a Crosman 1400..ect. There is nothing wrong with humble beginnings as evolving is made sweeter by appreciation. If ya can't see the Forest for the Trees, your stroll through the woods is gonna be somewhat lacking.

Just my .02

Mike.

It depends on your point of reference. To me any thing over $200 becomes expensive, the $500 I paid for My HW35E or my Walther LGV is my self imposed upper limit, Although a Air Arms TX, or The FWB sporter would be nice LOL

I totally agree. I will never spend over $300 or $400 bucks just to go out and shoot tree rats. I live on 5 acres of wooded property and do not need to impress anyone with a $2000 air rifle. Heck, I would be happy with a sling shot if I could hit anything with it.

Agreed! A $2000 gun is surely NOT where to start. But, its surely where youre heading!

IMHO.....as long as the airgun is "satisfyingly accurate" to the owner a "cheapie" is just fine. I started airgunning with BB guns as a kid and was satisfied with loose groups at 10 feet. Then I bought a Daisy pump gun when living in New jersey to practice without the need to take my powder burners to the rifle range which cost me about $20 per trip decades ago. I would hang tin cans on tree limbs at my NJ home and was satisfied to hit them (most of the time). After getting tired of the "pump/shoot" routine I bought a .177 HW50 directly from Beeman. LOL, had no computer and the only info I had was a slick Beeman catalog so I bought a "second" from Beeman. I found that the when shooting the HW50 I could hit acorns at the same distance I was hitting tin cans with the Daisy so my "satisfyingly accurate w/sufficient power" definition changed big time!

After moving from the "Peoples Republic of New Jersey" (where I feeded a firearm permit to buy a pellet gun) I moved to the relatively gun tolerant state of West Virginia and upgraded to some HW springers costing 10x the price of my Daisy pump and a couple times more than the HW50! Later a couple $100ish springers were bought but none were "satisfyingly accurate w/sufficient power", even after a lot of internal work that reduced the 30 yard group size. Regardless of the Gamo440 claims the best 30 yard accuracy I got was a can rolling 1"ctc AFTER adding a trigger insert and the Crosman Quest 1000 I bought was even worse. Humm.....I did buy two Chinese B3s from a Cummins Truckload sale for $19.95 each in West Virginia, cobbled together the best parts into one shooter that was more accurate than the Gamo440. One target 3 shots at 25 yards with factory sights and one 5 shot group at 25 yards after stripping off the "irons" and mounting a 6x Burris Compact scope that cost several times more than both B3s together..........







Anywhoo.......I'm of the opinion that ONLY "satisfyingly accurate w/sufficient power" is the measure of "successful pellet gun ownership". After doing a lot of squirrel hunting in the WV woods my "w/sufficient power" criteria changed where my HW35 (sold the HW50 to buy the HW35) wasn't satisfactory so I bought a Beeman R10 direct from Beeman (still no computer or internet) and felt that the R10 was as good for squirrel hunting as the HW35 was bad.

Not what I call "high end" but here are a few "high end" (IMHO) groups shot with my .177 HW95 and .177 Beeman R9.........

<a href="https://imgur.com/8SZm6IE"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

<a href="https://imgur.com/v6Ug0yH"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

<a href="https://imgur.com/daG1cT8"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Even with a moderately priced springer like the HW95 the package gets pretty expensive for my "shallow pockets" once some good mounts and serviceable scope are added...........

<a href="https://imgur.com/FystEz2"><img src="" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

Another option would be tp suggest buying used, I've bought a few under valued imho ,springers on gunbroker Looks like I fell into another rabbit hole LOL 

Well put, OP. As a recently converter to air guns, but a lifelong powder burner, I'm intrigued by the challenges that airguns supply. Plus, all I have to do is step out my backdoor and I'm shooting.

For most of my life, I didn't need to justify what I did, nor how I spent my money, to anyone. That's changed, now that I'm married again, so the wife gets nervous about the money I spend on this new hobby, and about the time I spend on it. But, I point out to her that in my earlier life, when I had the proper workspace to do it, I restored cars, trucks, and motorcycles as my main hobby. I spend a WHOLE lot more money and time on that hobby that I do now, and I would be doing it if we didn't live in a place with a short, steep, driveway in a residential subdivision where your business is everybody's business! So, I point that out, plus I point out that I don't use my household budget on this...I use money that I make in my side business! When the business is bullish, I spend money on airguns and et cetera. When it slows down, I don't. That cools her jets!

As far as what level of quality and expense one comes in at, it's very similar to one of my former and intense other avocations...playing music. In that activity, just as it is in airgunning, if you start out with a piece of crap to play, you're gonna get discouraged pretty quickly and move on to the very intense hobby of tiddlywinks. So, I think for folks who would advise people just coming in, there is a somewhat sweet spot of accurate, good quality air guns that would not only satisfy the newbie, but would intrigue them to move up the ladder. When I came into it, I immersed myself in on-line information, and quickly learned what rocked and what sucked! But, not everybody does it just that way. In fact, I think a lotta folks look for instant gratification, and if they don't get it, they move on. But, the hobby seems to be growing.

As the OP says, Mr. Gaylord has been quite a positive influence to me. He's been around the horn, and interjects a lotta common sense into what he writes, and I do appreciate that. In fact, I'll tell ya that in the world of opinions, I consider his opinions to be golden! 

So, I've been positively affecting friends of mine who join me, then take up the sport themselves. I have several angry wives to my credit. Man, am I proud! Not only is my own wife pissed, but her pals are pissed too! How much better can it get?

I am contrary to this thread's point of view. I absolutely HATE to waste money. It is very well established that air guns DO NOT hold their value. I have no issue with the proposed beginner doing due diligence. On the contrary, I encourage lots of reading and research. Springers are very good value for money and maybe they will satisfy the need all by themselves and that's fine, but if the end goal is PCP ,that's altogether a different story. The PCP cost is every bit as expensive, if not more so, than PBs. By the time the new air gunner equips himself with a weapon, storage bottles, chronograph, scope(s) and compressor(s), he has invested thousands in the hobby and it is addictive. Buying into this arena thinking there can be a cheap deal is a delusion at best. Yes, you can buy a low dollar, unregulated gun and a low dollar scope, but you won't keep that for long and every time the shooter upgrades, enhance or modifies, he's pissing away hard earned cash. It is much less expensive to just save your money and then buy the gun and ancillary equipment you wanted all along. There is a huge difference between a Kral and an FX or Daystate. I truly believe that all PCP air gunners will eventually get to the FX and or Daystate thing and it is much less expensive to do it up front. Jus sayin..............

I am contrary to this thread's point of view. I absolutely HATE to waste money. It is very well established that air guns DO NOT hold their value. I have no issue with the proposed beginner doing due diligence. On the contrary, I encourage lots of reading and research. Springers are very good value for money and maybe they will satisfy the need all by themselves and that's fine, but if the end goal is PCP ,that's altogether a different story. The PCP cost is every bit as expensive, if not more so, than PBs. By the time the new air gunner equips himself with a weapon, storage bottles, chronograph, scope(s) and compressor(s), he has invested thousands in the hobby and it is addictive. Buying into this arena thinking there can be a cheap deal is a delusion at best. Yes, you can buy a low dollar, unregulated gun and a low dollar scope, but you won't keep that for long and every time the shooter upgrades, enhance or modifies, he's pissing away hard earned cash. It is much less expensive to just save your money and then buy the gun and ancillary equipment you wanted all along. There is a huge difference between a Kral and an FX or Daystate. I truly believe that all PCP air gunners will eventually get to the FX and or Daystate thing and it is much less expensive to do it up front. Jus sayin..............

Click to expand...

The snobbery just slides off of your post.

IMHO there is a very fine line between you get what you pay for, and buying a name, buying hype, buying bull.....well we will leave it at that. And we do know our little hobby has very well known people that will tell you just what they want you to hear, be it a gun is better then it really is, or much worse then it really is....and will not even cock. It really sickens me.



The thing is I do agree that a gun that costs 10X as much as some....SOME... guns could be better....but really where do you draw the line and say....well I will shoot that squirrel at 80 yards and not 100.

Posts on this come up over and over again....and this forum seems to be the cork sniffing capital of the air gun community, raging from this compressor will not work as told to us by someone that has zero, none, nada, zippo, experience with it....but yet he know you just have to spend 10X the price to get something that will work. Same with air guns as well, if you want to shoot past 50 yards, well you just be ready to pony up a good used car cost. And then the continued tear down of brands and products seemed "poor quality"....



Eh to he!! with it....not that it matters to the cork sniffers anyway, they will never stoop to the lows to touch one of these garbage products, us users of the low quality will just sit back and think....why would someone spend that kind of money on something that will shoot .3 moa better on a good day.



enjoy yourselves.

I typed this up over on THR......that powder burning site.....and think it fits here as well....in a round about way.



The thread was on reviews in magazines vs. reviews by "owners" and how they stack up and my thoughts on what the takeaway was on all that.





----------------------------------------------------------



You are spot on.

Owners of a given product are going to fall into two groups, it is fantastic and it is wonderful, or it is pure junk......then and this goes double true in any forum you get the hangers on....people that will pipe up to make themselves sound smart or be a big fish, and the anonymous nature of forums puts more wind in their sails. So many people here and elsewhere will get on to say this or that is not good having never owned one, and likely never (in gun forums case) fired one, cleaned it....bla bla bla. 

This forum is very bad as it will cut off threads pretty darn quick, and kill posts that put actual value into the topic at hand....I wonder if I am wasting my time with this post.

The thing is you never really know what is what and who is who.....and I am a perfect example of that.

Everyone here knows I hate....as in HATE....i am using the word hate here...the 10/22....IIRC I have had 3 and have had nothing but bad luck with them out of the box. I will voice my views on it if I feel like getting slammed in one of those topics. I know I am in the minority on this, but what happened to me happened to me.....thing is no one outside of my neighbor and a buddy have been with me when things went sideways with these guns. 

You don't know if I am full of it or not.....and that is just it.

Big magazines are even worse, nothing is ever bad, Youtube reviewers are also the same....I am also into Air guns, and you never see a bad review from someone you know is getting their wallet padded by a specific product....however if they review one that does not pad their bank account then it is pure junk. Magazines know where the money comes from....and it is not you....unless you decide where the marketing money goes.

What I do is review on my own several sources....be they online or print magazines....I still get print magazines, as the prices are so darn low.....do I agree with them on many of the "reviews" nope, but I figure I get $1-2 worth of enjoyment out of them so I keep getting them. I know my one subscription is just a way for that magazine to sell add space.....the more you have the higher you can charge....before christmas they gave away subscriptions...I got cards to sign friends up for free....that just pads their numbers.

As to "people" on forums, and I know there are a few "people" on here that have a few different accounts, it is not hard to do with some tricks to hide your IP and such.

In the end read them all, I say if you are looking at something specific and have a real interest in an item, and vintage items as well, check out books specifically on that one item, for example the great remington 8 for the 8 and 81 is fantastic if you are into those guns, and other models have the same resources.

I'm enjoying this thread. I guess I'm from the "Shoot what ya got " school. When you get tired of being able to hit cans at longer and longer distances, then you'll naturally want to start hitting smaller and smaller targets at farther and farther distances. Save money ,buy what you can afford to achieve those goals. The whole process is fun and rewarding. Just my 2 cents from 20 plus years of playing with these things.

Hmm, 

Yup, there have been a few interesting threads like this recently and they have been quite enjoyable to read. To all of them I say everyone's needs are different, everyone's bank account is different, and different things make people happy. 

How's this for being counter-intuitive? 

I sold my FX Royale after getting a Hatsan Flash.

• Is the Flash a "better" gun? No.
• Is the Flash a more accurate gun? Nope.
• Did I have a TON of fun with the Flash? Heck yeah.
• Did my FX sit in the case all summer? Sadly, yes.

I realized that the pleasure I get from shooting is not directly proportional to the price tag or necessarily the size of the groups the gun produces. In fact when you have upwards of $1000 invested in an airgun I think we (OK, maybe just me) have such high expectations that anything but perfection is a letdown. And how often do we acquire a perfect airgun?

I began to look at the equity tied up in the FX and simply decided it could be better enjoyed elsewhere. For me this "elsewhere" was buying a compressor (used shoebox) and what I would consider a mid-level gun (kral bigmax) and I still have some bucks left in my "gun fund" to spend on something else when I feed the "need" later on.

I think in our enthusiasm to help newbies make "better" decisions, we need to step back and understand that while we all get pleasure from this hobby, not everyone's pleasure comes from the same source. For me it's learning, tinkering and seeing better results in my shooting. 

It may sound corny, but for me it's about the journey, not the destination

I feel ya on this one. my first adult airgun was a $80 open box break barrel from crosman. It's the only gun I owned for 8 years while lusting after the better ones. Then the opportunity came up to buy a marauder bundle with pump, scope, and rings and on I was to greener pastures. Five years and moving on to working for myself and now I have an few more pcp's, tank and scopes to go with them.

I have not forgotten my crosman break barrel. It made an appearance at this years AAFTA Nationals during the pistol match(I use open sights on it). I also use it to keep my offhand shooting acceptable if regular practice sessions have to stop.

As for the wow factor of new high end guns I've yet to buy a gun simply because I wanted it. The collection isn't big but it is purposeful and utilized regularly.

John

I get sh×t cramps when a person who is interested in our sport asks for "first gun advice" and has individuals suggest $2,000.00+ (Rifle ONLY!?!) models!

This is a joke,right? I mean...C'MON!!

Click to expand...

I completely agree with this! Someone on this board just recently asked for advice on what to get, with a $700 budget. One of the replies basically said that if you don't have at least $4000 to budget, then you shouldn't even start. Most of us don't have that kind of budget, never will, and we don't need it. We know we're not ever going to own an FX or Daystate unless we win the lottery. We will make do with what we have, and we will be happy with it. I myself will be getting into the PCP game soon. I have already bought the $35 hand pump from Walmart, will be buying a $100 UTG scope that fits my needs, and plan to purchase a $300 .22 Hatsan Flash QE. That will work fine for my needs, and will actually probably be more than I'll ever need.

I see both sides and I don't know why anyone should take offense. The problem is knowledge. What we are doing here is trying to help the new guys and each other make decisions about what to buy. It's not a matter of who's right or wrong it's information and opinions. I'd appreciate an honest opinion over some one trying to be diplomatic. I agree you don't have to spend a fortune but I think just that fact that you would be a member of or reading this form suggests that there is a desire for quality. A guy with little money can't afford to waste what he has on something that he's not going to be happy with. There are all manor of ways to get quality. Used is good. Fixing up a gun is another. One fellow put together a good one from several Chinese cheap ones. Not many can do that. My thinking for myself and I going to guess for many is the $175 I spent on a box store gun was a total waste. Just my experience. I worked on that gun for hours and never got what I wanted from it. Sold it on eBay by the time I shipped it and paid the eBay fees I lost my entire investment. I'd like to be able to tell other people of my experience with out suggesting it's that way necessarily for all.

The reader has to take all of this and process it within in his own frame of reference.. Most are going to make mistakes all I'm suggesting is opinion of all types are worth while. Tell it like you see it and if you are offended by some one else maybe that wasn't his intention and honestly SO WHAT. We don't need to intimidate each other do we?

What he said^^^