New springer shooter.

springers are hard on scopes, like a particular pellet and loosen things like stock screws and scope rings so thats the things I'd check first. also clean the barrel real good.

Practice makes perfect. Use the same hold all the time. Cradle the rifle like you are holding or pointing a baby and let go kick as you cradle same for all shots. Fore end loose grip or on your open palm. Sit on your butt and rest forearm on your knee gently cupped with your hand just for balance. Let it kick into your shoulder the same every time no gripping anything hard treat it like a baby.

I happen to agree with you. Many non AA, Diana, HW, etc springers are a mixed lot. I have no clue what business people would have with a Benjamin trail np2 shooting hard as heck but missing cans at 13 yards, but they sell plenty of them. They are temperamental. My most accurate gun is also one of my least accurate at the moment. I can pick up most and shoot any form whatsoever and get good 20 yard accuracy but my accurate one will shoot poorly until I wrestle with it for a bit, then it’s very precise. My first springers made me feel exactly how you do and I was very frustrated and upset, I had all sorts of opinions. 

Having said that... what’s going on with your gamo? It’s the whisper right? Is it at least shooting precise?

These are my observations from my experiences.

1st break barrel was a .177 Gamo Raptor Whisper. I mounted the scope and it broke within a few shots. I did not clean the barrel like know to now. After several hundred rounds of frustration it began to settle down and became very accurate. My confidence grew with this gun and I was hitting everything using the iron sights.

2nd break barrel was .22 Benjamin Trail NP2. After researching how to shoot a break barrel and what to do and not to do when new, I began shooting it. I was very disappointed with the lack of accuracy, but kept at it. Then I ran out of the H&Ns and JSBs I was shooting so I picked up what WM had. Crosman Piranhas. The groups immediately tightened up and I started feeling good about the gun. Long story short, last fall I shot a squirrel out of a tree from 56 yards. DRT. 

For me, it was all about learning it's idiosyncrasies. Every gun shoots different and you need to find out what it likes. The Gamo wanted a gentle hold that allowed it to move forward and aft during the shot cycle. ( i found wearing a brown jersey glove on my weak hand let the rifle slide better) The Benji likes a light grip, but somewhat firm placement in the shoulder pocket.

Keep experimenting and try every pellet you can, good luck.

I had terrible groups with a Benjamin Trail NP and almost just gave up BUT decided to give a Weihrauch HW95 .22 a try and glad I did. This is a 6 shot group, at 25 yards, I shot to day after about 350/400 pellets through the new HW95. I am using the same scope that was on the Benjamin. With more practice I hope to be able to keep them all inside the 1" ring. Lot of fun for us old folks as my wife also enjoys shooting the air rifle.

tldr; follow through is important



I have the same issue: "Youtube, my only contact with other shooters."

I am teaching myself to shoot. 50 years old, and just started last fall. Did not grow up with air, or fire arms.

Something I recently discovered that is making a difference for me....I found that I was releasing the trigger as soon as the piston was released.....I have found that pulling the trigger all the way back, and holding it there for a bit (do not release until pellet impact), has produced tighter groups. Now whether that is forcing my hold to be more consistent, or the gun's harmonics are affected positively by this, or whatever....I have no clue, but my groups have tightened up just a little bit (at 30 yards).

I have five spring rifles and four pcps. Everyone of my spring rifles will shoot sub 1 1/2” ten shot groups at 50 yards and inside a dime at 20 yards. However, I have a minimum of $1k in each of the springers including tuning and optics - some closer to $1,500, not to mention countless fun hours of trying different pellets and chrono time. I can also tell you that they are relatively stable. They may need a click or two from time to time but nothing like being discussed here.


Like most things in life, the results are directly equivalent to the financial and time investment inputs.

I like your way of stating things. Strangely I think we have ALL said pretty much exactly what you have said at one time or another shooting springers. I know that I did. Ha ha!

I'm no magical spring gun shooter but there was something holding me back from those amazing groups using some nice guns. 

First it was the mental game. I just stopped caring about my groups at some point and just started shooting for fun leaving the performance anxiety behind me. Somehow that helped my groups get tighter. It wasn't overnight but it did seem as it was almost overnight.

Second was follow through. Very difficult with a spring gun in my opinion. The scope image disappears as the gun jumps around in my hands. I just try and trick myself into thinking that I can still see the target and hold on to it as best I can until the gun stops moving and I can capture the target in my sight again.

Of course as you mentioned there are only so many ways you can pull a gun into your shoulder. I try and use the same all the time putting my hands on the same places and I use very light cheek pressure. Really just touching the stock with my cheek.

If you have a scope with an adjustable objective, get the parallax out for the distance your shooting. Chasing parallax errors is very frustrating especially if you don't know about them.

I find that when I'm out of practice with a spring gun I have to start off with shooting just for fun at reactive targets (empty cans, pinecones, Etc) just to get my mind back in the game. After getting familiar again I'll set up to shoot as tight of groups as I can. Some days I'm on, some days I'm not. Really time behind the trigger has been the best thing for me personally. Chasing those magic groups that get posted on the forums are more rare then they are common. We all want to show our best side so thats normally what we see here.

Enjoy what ya got for what it is.

Unlike PCPs, consistent accuracy with springers does not come cheap. IMHO, the cost equalizes some over the long run because the support apparatus for PCPs is a hassle and costly too. The “high end” for PCPs is also considerably higher than for quality spring guns.

That said, I’ve not yet found a springer that can consistently shoot accurately at distances of 40 yards of less for less than $500.



R

Unlike PCPs, consistent accuracy with springers does not come cheap. IMHO, the cost equalizes some over the long run because the support apparatus for PCPs is a hassle and costly too. The “high end” for PCPs is also considerably higher than for quality spring guns.

That said, I’ve not yet found a springer that can consistently shoot accurately at distances of 40 yards of less for less than $500.



R

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My dianas, my asp20, and my xisico all group very well for under $500. I'll hit a chipmunk in the brain at 40 to 45 yards with my Diana's or asp20 any day of the week.

You have described an excellent follow through-- very few of us have the perfect trigger technique that absolutely doesn't disturb the aim. When releasing the trigger too quickly we a) relax involuntarily and b) change grip pressure ever so slightly. While holding the trigger back you are not changing your grip pressure, nor introducing any unwanted jerk and actually holding your focus. All of that leads to a good follow through which is the key to springer shooting. 

You have learned to shoot a lot better in one year than many slapdash trigger jerkers who have frequented ranges for years. This is why everyone should have at least one good springer to learn to be a better shot!




tldr; follow through is important



I have the same issue: "Youtube, my only contact with other shooters."

I am teaching myself to shoot. 50 years old, and just started last fall. Did not grow up with air, or fire arms.

Something I recently discovered that is making a difference for me....I found that I was releasing the trigger as soon as the piston was released.....I have found that pulling the trigger all the way back, and holding it there for a bit (do not release until pellet impact), has produced tighter groups. Now whether that is forcing my hold to be more consistent, or the gun's harmonics are affected positively by this, or whatever....I have no clue, but my groups have tightened up just a little bit (at 30 yards).

If you really want to improve your springer shooting or any shooting "Si Pittaway" is your man. Watching his videos has upped my game. It's all about sound shooting principals. A well tuned German springer helps a lot and trigger time.

Never had the scope need adjusting on my springer, even before I had it tuned. Use a set of rings with a stop pin

I think a lot of the problems with springers come from the fact that serious, competitive centerfire shooters mostly consider the SWFA SS line to be about the only thing under $1,000 that will reliably track/return to zero/not break for any length of time, while we are using rifles that are much harder on scopes while also using far inferior scopes. Even those that aren’t dialers but want a basic “set it and forget it” hunting scope they can count on usually consider approximately $150-$200 about the least you can spend and get something that will last, while that seems to be about the top end that most people want to spend on their springers- which, again, are even harder on scopes.

1. Buy pellets cause you like the painting on the can of some other silly reason. If they shoot good one day you are lucky. If a cloud moves or a bird flies over they will quickly quit.

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On pellets: All the weighing, washing and lubing is well and good. If your gun isn't shooting a pellet well it is INEVITABLY because the pellet is not sized properly for your bore or it is a damaged pellet. That is true only if all other things are working as they should be working. The pellet is the last place to look for accuracy improvements. The right pellet can make a dramatic improvement, but look to your pellets after you have made sure your other issues are addressed.

2.if your scope came with turret caps you can throw them away. You will be adjusting every time you go to shoot. I not talking a little but inches. I already know what you are going to say. It is the way you hold the gun. I ain't Gods gift to guns but there are only so many ways to git it to my shoulder and fire it. All of the ways I know work one day and not the next,heck not even the next hour.

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I am not going to say it has anything to do with the way you are holding your gun. The truth is very simple on your scope issues. If a scope is not holding zero it is INEVITABLY because something in that part of the system is moving. It could be mounts, it could be stock screws, it could be bedding but something is moving. Now this is only true if all other things in the system are functioning properly. So if your zero is moving do the following in this order, it only takes a few minutes.

1) Check your stock screws and action screws. Make sure the pockets they are in are not mushy because of over application of lubricants. Tighten the screws until they are firm. You do not need to be an Olympic star, just snug them up tight. You should put a little blue loctight on them when you do this. Just a dab. Let that sit a couple of hours before shooting again.

2) Check your barrel screws, barrel bands, and scope rings/mounts. Bring these screws snug and put a little blue loctight on them. Let them sit a couple hours before shooting.

3) If you have done these things and your zero is still moving it is very likely your scope honestly is not holding zero. Pitch it. Try irons if you have them and see if it holds group. Try another scope and see if it holds group.

3. I well know that if I spend a small fortune and Buy gun"X" or gun "Q' it will shoot like a house afire,however that is not in the budget. so I will keep on with I got. The Gamo shoots good some days. The Hatsan 95 seems to be improving,it has a terrible trigger. I turn this screw or this screw but it don't seem to improve. The Benjamin might or not shoot but on the good side no group has been bigger than the typing paper targets at 27 yards. The F4 would not make a good walking stick.

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Any gun with any pellet should shoot groups and hold zero. The group may not be as tight as you wish but it should not be moving around the target. The group may not be where you want it on the target but it should stay in one place. That said, groups grow and shrink with conditions. Wind is the biggest thing that will affect external ballistics that you face with an Airgun. You should expect groups to open up substantially in ANY VARIABLE wind conditions over a VERY LIGHT (2-3 mph) wind. You should expect groups to move on the target with ANY STEADY winds, even very light ones. If you can get a chance to shoot on an indoor range give that a try. It is usually an eye opener. The group sizes you are suggesting imply some other mechanical problem(s).

Never mind that these guns got good reviews on Youtube,my only contact with other shooters.I reckon I gust got lucky.
Not bitching just sharing my observations. I am just having trouble telling if I am having fun or not. If I get to do any small game hunting this year I will dig out my .22 LR. I don't want to wound and it get away.

I hope you are shooting better than me.

God bless

Bobby

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I too have had my days. One of the things which most improved my groups with spring rifles was paying attention to stock screws. The second thing that made a huge difference was actually sizing pellets. I started buying the largest size (head diameter) I could get and sizing them down in stages. I then shot groups with each size and graphed the results. There was a clear pellet size that my springers liked. My D48 and D460 both like .218s. I don't know if that is universally true about Dianas but it was awfully nice to find out both guns liked the same pellet and the same head diameter, H&N FTTs @.218. I quit weighing pellets. Maybe if I were a world class shooter that would matter to me.

Patience, brother. Patience, don't let the frustration get you down. Use it to fuel your determination.

God Bless You RIGHT BACK!

Springers will demand you put some work in to shoot them well. That's why airgunners can pick up a firearm and shoot them so well but the opposite is generally not true. 

Its also amazing how springers can shoot one pellet real well and another will produce groups that look like a shotgun pattern. Lots of variables to work out but don't sweat it too much. Just plain shooting the gun with no particular goal in mind really helps. First, you break in the gun which smooths out the shooting cycle. Second, you get used to how the gun feels during the shooting cycle. With some of my guns, at first I couldn't see the pellet travel while viewing through the scope because the gun kicked and jumped so much during the shooting cycle. After getting used to the feel of the gun and the gun getting broken in, I can actually see the pellet travel now. 

If they shoot good one day you are lucky. If a cloud moves or a bird flies over they will quickly quit.

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Yea,pretty much. I have a BB and an UL.I'm pretty sure I've found their preferred pellets. Bench rested,mostly,lol One 5 shot group under a dime at 25yds with either 1, a sip later and it's an inch and quarter,at 25yds.wth !, right? I have 2 pcps and it's like night & day.I have a 1" group at 70 yds sitting in my camp/patio chair, just the old elbow on the knee rest, after um, urm, ahem, well,a few rum & cokes ok.NO BS,it's true. I still have the target,a dinger. iffen I were'nt a luddite I'd be able to show ya. Well there's somethin about a springer, a conglomeration of a tactile and auditory experience that is unique and satisfying,and most times a frustrating challenge. And therefore we look forward to handling them. Your relationship with your springers will only deepen.