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Forums PCP Airguns PCP Airgun – Discussion New member looking for advice.

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    Whiplash
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +0

    I used to shoot pellet guns back in my teens(40+ years ago), and really enjoyed it. After coming across you-tube videos of modern air rifles I was blown away. I have decided to get back into the hobby/sport.

    Not being a hunter I am looking to punch paper and reactive targets with the goal of getting as good as I can at distance shooting from a bench rest.

    Since I have a safety bonus coming in March ive decided to follow my buying strategy I use with computers, ie: buy a machine you can grow into and not out of. I was hoping y'all could give me your thoughts on my proposed purchases.                     

    FX Cown – still deciding between .25 or .30.

    Aztec emerald 5.5x25x50 FFP

    88 cu ft scba tank(used from air tanks plus)

    Any recommendations on shooting rests, needed cleaning supplies, etc would be greatly appreciated. 

    Also for the factory tune on a crown what pellets would you reccomend?

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    ackuric
    Spectator
    Spectator
    United States
    Accuracy: +66

    IMO since you intend on shooting mostly paper, I would highly consider a .22 or the .25, although the .22 could be made to make nearly the same power as the .25.  A .22 set on medium power would be plenty accurate and get the highest shot count, plus pellets are cheaper.

     

    You have a great selection so far though, should enjoy .

     

    JSB Diablo's are the go to for most FX rifles as they are designed around them.

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    Michael
    Keymaster
    Keymaster
    United States
    Accuracy: +155

    Oh boy, oh boy!  Looks like you've done some research.  Here's a few quick answers:

    FX Crown – still deciding between .25 or .30.

    • I'd go for .25.  It less expensive, uses less air, has a flatter trajectory, & can be just as (if not more) accurate than .30

    Aztec emerald 5.5x25x50 FFP

    • All of my scopes are FFP, I prefer FFP.  I've shot the Aztec in FFP & SFP and I personally think the SFP is better.  This scope benefits from using the included sunshade.

    88 cu ft scba tank(used from air tanks plus)

    Any recommendations on shooting rests, needed cleaning supplies, etc would be greatly appreciated. 

    • If you don't want to "break the bank" Bald Eagle makes some intermediate benchrests that work great.  And its hard to go wrong with a rear sandbag (I prefer the leather rabbit ear type).

    Also for the factory tune on a crown what pellets would you recommend?

    • From the factory the barrel are tune are designed for the .25 caliber 25g JSB pellets.  If you want to shoot the 34g pellets you'll have adjust the Crown.

    Hope that helps. -Michael

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    Whiplash
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +0

    Thanks Michael and ackuric. Looks like the .25 then. As far as filling its gonna be dive shops for tank refills. I'm surprised I got the above list past the wife as it is, ( I also have a table top minature gaming addiction) so don't want to push it by adding a compressor.

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    Whiplash
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +0

    Another question . For those of you with glasses do you shoot with or without them. I have bifocals and was curious which way us better.

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    idoc
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +13

    Kind of  depends on your prescription. If you don't have match astigmatism, you can take your glasses off and adjust your scope's ocular to your eye (focus the reticle). If yo have significant astigmatism, you'll want to leave you glasses on, but that should be easy since most scopes have plenty of eye relief. Hope this helps.

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    2manyAirGunz
    Spectator
    Spectator
    Accuracy: +41

    Whiplash

    Another question . For those of you with glasses do you shoot with or without them. I have bifocals and was curious which way us better.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I wear bifocals perennially. When shooting I use the reading portion — at the bottom — of my glasses for sighting. I suppose sighting with a scope is akin to reading text.

    Also: Have you had the opportunity to look through an Aztec scope?

    Personally, I find the thin reticle of the Aztec scope difficult to locate, especially in anything other than bright sunlight. I have an Aztec scope without the illuminated reticle, and have ended up putting this on whatever airgun I use least often. My preferences are the comparable Hawk and Athlon scopes with the illuminated reticles.

    Welcome to the club!

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    2manyAirGunz
    Spectator
    Spectator
    Accuracy: +41

    idoc

    Kind of  depends on your prescription. If you don't have match astigmatism, you can take your glasses off and adjust your scope's ocular to your eye (focus the reticle). If yo have significant astigmatism, you'll want to leave you glasses on, but that should be easy since most scopes have plenty of eye relief. Hope this helps.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Plus one, Doc.

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    2manyAirGunz
    Spectator
    Spectator
    Accuracy: +41

    Whiplash, I wager you will soon acquire the compressor. The convenience of the in-home fill-station is invaluable.

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    Rodeo
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +16

    I agree with 2manyAirGunz.  Based on a lot of reading and advise from AGN members I just picked up an Athlon Argos 6-24 btr.  I also agree with Michael to go with .25 over .30 – with the Crown you can change calibers later if you wish.  

    However……  I talked with Kip at AOA for awhile about the Brocock Bantam Sniper .22.  (stopped in at AOA while vacationing in AZ).  He had high praises for this platform shooting the heavy (25 grain?) .22's.   Something to consider.

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    MP44
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +9

    If you can put a little more into your scope budget, I would highly recommend the SWFA 3-15X42

    https://www.swfa.com/swfa-ss-3-15×42-tactical-rifle-scope-11.html

    Link

    scubajeeper
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +11

    Make sure your dive shop will fill to 4500. Many of them won't seeing as an aluminum 80 is 3000 psi and is the standard for the dive industry.

    Link

    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +64

    Recommended accoutrements for the Crown!

    1. Chronograph.  The Caldwell can be had for around $100.  If you want to tune the gun yourself, this is an indispensable aid.

    2. Elbow Pads.  Sounds stupid, but my elbows get raw and irritated when shooting from a bench for several hours.  I've seen people use Vet Wrap, Ace Bandages, and every other thing, but something to protect elbows would be nice.

    3. support.  that can be sandbags, bipod, or other inventions.  For the Crown, perhaps a set of Caldwell Tack Driver bags to start.  You'll undoubtedly want to try several types of support to see what works best for you.

    4. Targets.  While you can use range targets, the Splatterburst or Shoot N See targets are really nice at 75 and 100 yards because you can see results without zooming your scope in.

    5. Cleaning  – Everyone has an opinion on this one.  DO NOT USE BRASS BRUSHES.  While they won't hurt the barrel, there's a rubber O-Ring in the breech that brass brushes will scratch.  Either get a Bore Snake and take the brush out, or a Patch Worm with Ballistol works great.  I'd avoid anything going from the muzzle down to protect the crown. Do clean the gun before use.  Shipping gunk in the barrel can effect accuracy.  Once you do the initial cleaning, DON"T DO IT AGAIN until accuracy drops off.  It'll take 50 or 100 shots to "Lead In" the barrel and accuracy to settle down.  Once there, don't clean again till accuracy drops.  That could be anywhere between 500 and 10K rounds.  You'll have to figure it out for your gun.

    6. Metric Allen or Hex Wrenches.  You may never intend to work on the gun, but a set of wrenches can be invaluable at the range.

    7. Plastic coated cleaning rod.  OK, now if you never do what I did, and double load you'll never need the plastic coated cleaning rod. and I said I'd avoid anything that enters through the muzzle but if you double load you don't have much choice.  (I have an Impact and have lost count, countless times).  When you double load, uncock, open the bolt, and push the pellets out with the rod.  Plastic protects the crown.  Just be extremely careful.

    8.Diamond Scale & some 7 day pill boxes from Walmart.  Sounds strange, right?  Here's the deal.  Pellets only average the weight printed on the tin.  So, for bench shooting, you'll eventually want to weigh pellets.  While watching paint dry is a bit more exciting, weighing will provide consistency in the elevation of your shot.  A light pellet can shoot an inch higher than a heavy pellet from the same tin.  Mark the pill box with the weight of pellets in each of the 7 bins, and sort accordingly.  There are entire threads on the forums about weighing and head size.  Forget head size on the Crown, the Crown and Impact reshape the pellets to a uniform shape while shooting.  Long discussions on this one.  Scales on eBay are $10 to $20.

    9. Consider your source of air.  I use a local paintball shop.  Several have advised me against paintball shops as their air filtration is typically zero.  This can translate into gunk in the gun.  Scuba shops are better with breathable air filtration, or consider your own compressor.  Cheap Chinese compressors start at $200-ish, decent compressors start at $1000 or $1200, and you can go all the way up to $10K dive compressors.  Do research as you go along.

    10. Take your time.  While a Crown will be accurate out of the box, I managed to talk to MR. FX (Fredrick Axelsson) himself at the Utah Airguns grand opening.  He said that a Smooth Twist X barrel takes at least 500 rounds to break in.  Ted Bier was also there, he said his barrels really got accurate after 8 or 10 thousand rounds if I remember correctly, I know it was more than I've put through all of my guns combined.  In other words, these barrels get better with age.  Keep shooting and it'll just keep getting better and better.

    11. Final suggestion – forget most of what I've said, and just get out and shoot.  All of this stuff will come with time and practice.  These are minor details that you can live without for the most part.  They (in my opinion) make shooting more comfortable, but aren't necessary in any way shape or form.

    Just get out and have fun.  I also shoot bench almost exclusively as my legs are giving way to MS.  Local ranges here are good out to 75 yards and my Impact can produce 1.25 inch groups and I am a lousy shooter.  Met guy with a Crown a couple months ago at the same range.  His groups were incredible.  16 shots in a group about an inch across that looked more like a rip in the paper.  incredible accuracy and he was NOT weighing pellets.  Straight out of the tin.  The Crown is an incredibly capable gun.  

    Have fun!

     

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    chasdicapua
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +21

    Whiplash, welcome to the forum. Isn't it great all the good advice that comes one's way?!

    In terms of a rifle you can grow into and for best accuracy at long distance off a bench, I would go with something with a Lothar Walther Polygon barrel on it as it shoots the JSB .22 monster pellets very accurately.

    The FX guns do not come with that barrel, so, unless you are going to buy one and put one on it, I wouldn't go with an FX. They are excellent guns (have owned 4 myself) but for what you want (long distance off the bench), I would go with a Rapid Air Weapons 50 fpe .22 with the polygon barrel and Long Range Target stock. 

    Alternatively, a Daystate Redwolf High Power in .22 would fit the bill. It comes with the polygon barrel. 

    In either rifle, you'd want to shoot the JSB .22 monster pellets (25.4 gr)

    You've got lots of other suggestions for air, rests, etc. Have at it, and post some results once you are shooting. 

     

    Chas

     

    Link

    Glem.Chally
    Participant
    Member
    Canada
    Accuracy: +112

    Saltlake58

    Recommended accoutrements for the Crown!

    1. Chronograph.  The Caldwell can be had for around $100.  If you want to tune the gun yourself, this is an indispensable aid.

    2. Elbow Pads.  Sounds stupid, but my elbows get raw and irritated when shooting from a bench for several hours.  I've seen people use Vet Wrap, Ace Bandages, and every other thing, but something to protect elbows would be nice.

    3. support.  that can be sandbags, bipod, or other inventions.  For the Crown, perhaps a set of Caldwell Tack Driver bags to start.  You'll undoubtedly want to try several types of support to see what works best for you.

    4. Targets.  While you can use range targets, the Splatterburst or Shoot N See targets are really nice at 75 and 100 yards because you can see results without zooming your scope in.

    5. Cleaning  – Everyone has an opinion on this one.  DO NOT USE BRASS BRUSHES.  While they won't hurt the barrel, there's a rubber O-Ring in the breech that brass brushes will scratch.  Either get a Bore Snake and take the brush out, or a Patch Worm with Ballistol works great.  I'd avoid anything going from the muzzle down to protect the crown. Do clean the gun before use.  Shipping gunk in the barrel can effect accuracy.  Once you do the initial cleaning, DON"T DO IT AGAIN until accuracy drops off.  It'll take 50 or 100 shots to "Lead In" the barrel and accuracy to settle down.  Once there, don't clean again till accuracy drops.  That could be anywhere between 500 and 10K rounds.  You'll have to figure it out for your gun.

    6. Metric Allen or Hex Wrenches.  You may never intend to work on the gun, but a set of wrenches can be invaluable at the range.

    7. Plastic coated cleaning rod.  OK, now if you never do what I did, and double load you'll never need the plastic coated cleaning rod. and I said I'd avoid anything that enters through the muzzle but if you double load you don't have much choice.  (I have an Impact and have lost count, countless times).  When you double load, uncock, open the bolt, and push the pellets out with the rod.  Plastic protects the crown.  Just be extremely careful.

    8.Diamond Scale & some 7 day pill boxes from Walmart.  Sounds strange, right?  Here's the deal.  Pellets only average the weight printed on the tin.  So, for bench shooting, you'll eventually want to weigh pellets.  While watching paint dry is a bit more exciting, weighing will provide consistency in the elevation of your shot.  A light pellet can shoot an inch higher than a heavy pellet from the same tin.  Mark the pill box with the weight of pellets in each of the 7 bins, and sort accordingly.  There are entire threads on the forums about weighing and head size.  Forget head size on the Crown, the Crown and Impact reshape the pellets to a uniform shape while shooting.  Long discussions on this one.  Scales on eBay are $10 to $20.

    9. Consider your source of air.  I use a local paintball shop.  Several have advised me against paintball shops as their air filtration is typically zero.  This can translate into gunk in the gun.  Scuba shops are better with breathable air filtration, or consider your own compressor.  Cheap Chinese compressors start at $200-ish, decent compressors start at $1000 or $1200, and you can go all the way up to $10K dive compressors.  Do research as you go along.

    10. Take your time.  While a Crown will be accurate out of the box, I managed to talk to MR. FX (Fredrick Axelsson) himself at the Utah Airguns grand opening.  He said that a Smooth Twist X barrel takes at least 500 rounds to break in.  Ted Bier was also there, he said his barrels really got accurate after 8 or 10 thousand rounds if I remember correctly, I know it was more than I've put through all of my guns combined.  In other words, these barrels get better with age.  Keep shooting and it'll just keep getting better and better.

    11. Final suggestion – forget most of what I've said, and just get out and shoot.  All of this stuff will come with time and practice.  These are minor details that you can live without for the most part.  They (in my opinion) make shooting more comfortable, but aren't necessary in any way shape or form.

    Just get out and have fun.  I also shoot bench almost exclusively as my legs are giving way to MS.  Local ranges here are good out to 75 yards and my Impact can produce 1.25 inch groups and I am a lousy shooter.  Met guy with a Crown a couple months ago at the same range.  His groups were incredible.  16 shots in a group about an inch across that looked more like a rip in the paper.  incredible accuracy and he was NOT weighing pellets.  Straight out of the tin.  The Crown is an incredibly capable gun.  

    Have fun!

     

    Great post,  lots of useful info here.

    Link

    ackuric
    Spectator
    Spectator
    United States
    Accuracy: +66

    Thoughts on Scope:

    +1 On the Athlon Argos 6-24 btr. My only gripe with this particular scope is the parallax adjustments aren't 1:1 with whats on the dial, not that I care that much I just adjust until the image is as clear as day…but for 300$ scope this should be a non-issue. The glass is super clear, the reticle is gorgeous especially between 10-18x zoom. Also my magnification knob is STIFF, its loosened up just a tad with use but it really is stiff, tempted to warranty it just for that reason and its been that way since day 1. 

     

    But if you're ONLY punching paper and under 50 yards, I am not sure you need as much scope. A 4-18x (or 16x) would save a bit of weight, cash, and be more than enough IMO.  Unless you're a scope snob, then the 6-24x would be minimum, and 400-500$ glass would be minimum spent.

     

    Caliber: 

    .25 vs .22

     

    .25 Cons

    -.25 Cal pellets generally only available @ online retailers, which ALSO means they get shipped twice, to retailer than to you, as opposed to just once.

    -.25 Cal uses more air under nominal operating conditions unless detuned

    -.25 Cal Ammo cost is higher

    .25 Pros

    -More Power when pushed to the max but not much.. (.22/.25 = 88%, which means .22's can make roughly 88% the power of a .25)

    -More efficient on air when detuned to similar power levels as a .22 cal

    -*****doesn't apply to you, but for hunting .25 has much larger kill zone)

    .22 Cons 

    -12% less power output

    .22 Pros

    -Cheaper ammo

    -More accessible locally available ammo

    -More efficient when operating at optimal power

    -Lowered back stop requirements due to reduced energies

    -Quieter when operating at nominal or even detuned levels

     

     

    I personally have a .25 cal…I very well may turn it into a .22 cal one day because this is how my configuration would run…

     

    (.23 ports, 19.5" barrel, 1950 psi, 33.95 gr) 

    .25 cal = 61.4 FPE / 902 FPS

    .22 cal = 53.5 FPE / 842 FPS 

    As you see roughly 12-13% less power but still very reasonable and comparable outputs…but I would have to get a custom barrel (200$), and a new bolt (20$) just to do this, and I am not that eager to run a .22…maybe one day though. But if I had to do it all over again, I would rather be setup with .22 cal considering I punch more often than not, paper as well.

     

    -Matt

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    bubblerboy64
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +49

     

    if I was buying today I’d buy a red wolf 22 cal and a Nikon black  X1000 scope .  Now if you want to shoot indoors or real close might be a better scope choice. 

    Tomorrow I might change my mind 

    Link

    davester
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +1

    Wow, so much good information on this site!

    Link

    Whiplash
    Participant
    Member
    Accuracy: +0

    chasdicapua

    Whiplash, welcome to the forum. Isn't it great all the good advice that comes one's way?!

    In terms of a rifle you can grow into and for best accuracy at long distance off a bench, I would go with something with a Lothar Walther Polygon barrel on it as it shoots the JSB .22 monster pellets very accurately.

    The FX guns do not come with that barrel, so, unless you are going to buy one and put one on it, I wouldn't go with an FX. They are excellent guns (have owned 4 myself) but for what you want (long distance off the bench), I would go with a Rapid Air Weapons 50 fpe .22 with the polygon barrel and Long Range Target stock. 

    Alternatively, a Daystate Redwolf High Power in .22 would fit the bill. It comes with the polygon barrel. 

    In either rifle, you'd want to shoot the JSB .22 monster pellets (25.4 gr)

    You've got lots of other suggestions for air, rests, etc. Have at it, and post some results once you are shooting. 

     

    Chas

     

    Arggh. Had my budget all figured out with the crown in synthetic stock and you had to make me go look at videos of the raw. Now I'm really torn. Budget says crown but damn that raw hm1000x in .22 with the lrt stock is really making me  consider blowing the budget and pissing the wife off.

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    Saltlake58
    Participant
    Member
    United States
    Accuracy: +64

    Whiplash – There's always another option, always another opinion.  Your first choice was well thought out.  Stick with it.  We all love whatever gun we chose for our shooting purposes, the gun we invested our ego's in.  Once you choose a high end gun like a Crown, RAW or Daystate, you'll love whatever you buy.  All are incredible.

    Now, for a selfish, self serving plug, stick with the original decision.  I have an Impact (no, I'm not independent, my ego wants to see you pick the Crown, get it?)  The Crown is fantastic, and will not disappoint, and it's in the right price range. The STX barrel is the most accurate long range barrel out there at the moment.  Not to say others aren't as good, but review the winning guns at Extreme Bench Rest, 100 Yard Pro Class is 5 FX Impacts, 4 Daystates and a Brocock Bantam.  The first RAW comes in 14th.

    http://www.extremebenchrest.com/2018-extreme-benchrest-results/

    While the RAW is only $1750 (Can you believe I'm saying "Only" $1750?), the Red Wolf is $2400.  The competition was won by a Bantam Sniper that sells for $1400.  There's no reason to spend $2400 for a good, accurate gun, as proven by the Bantam.

    Another thing to think of is that when you spend $1600 for the Crown, can you get support?  Well, just call FX USA in North Carolina and yes, you can get support.  They'll even schedule a tech to call you back to help diagnose the problem.  They were spot on with my problems (I did some really dumb stuff, please don't ask, entirely my fault).  A bunch of parts later, and watching the FX Master Class videos, and I'm back shooting.  No other vendor does that kind of support.

    Good luck on the decision, this was kind of rambling, but please, just pull the trigger on the Crown.  you'll love it.

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