New ART barrel from Daystate
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According to what Tony is saying the.177-.22hp already had this ART barrel? Supposedly new to the .25 cal. For 2019? Who really knows all I care is if it shoots... like Mr. Strever says probably just a slow twist LW -poly. You pay LW they will make you whatever you want, “within reason” don’t know about specific rifling twist rates/depths/dimensions, choke dimensions etc. that’s probably what they don’t want there competitors to know?
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It sounds like Rog has replaced the barrel on his .22 hp RedWolf which would suggest current hp RedWolf don’t have the ART barrel. Also the original barrel is 1:16 which isn’t slow for a .22 airgun For comparison the smooth x A liner is 1:23
It would be great if they could develop a single barrel capable of shooting Jsb 18g 25g & 34g. It would justify having the the 3 power levels the RedWolf has.
Fx obviously don’t think one barrel is capable of optimally shooting that range of pellets and there answer is to have different liners for different pellets.
Beyond 70m will be the real test of the new barrel with the monsters . Standard LW barrels with there 1:17.7 twist rate shoot the 18g pellets well and at high velocity (920fps+) shoot the 25g rd Monsters well to around the 50-70m mark then they become unstable. The smooth X A liner with a 1:23 twist rate doesn’t shoot the monsters at all!. The original RedWolf barrel has a 1:16 twist rate and that allows it to shoot the Monsters rd our past 100y as does the Huben with it 1:16 rimfire barrel. The smooth x slug liner shoots them ok but still loose stability at around the 70m mark.
The RedWolf hp is a one trick pony but I don’t mind that as the monster rd pellets are such a good pellet It is very simple to remove the barrel on the RedWolf so maybe if you want to shoot shorter pellets a barrel specifically for them is the way to go?
One barrel that does it all.. If you can prove it can shoot those 3 pellets optimally I will buy one
Good luck
It would be great if they could develop a single barrel capable of shooting Jsb 18g 25g & 34g. It would justify having the the 3 power levels the RedWolf has.
Fx obviously don’t think one barrel is capable of optimally shooting that range of pellets and there answer is to have different liners for different pellets.
Beyond 70m will be the real test of the new barrel with the monsters . Standard LW barrels with there 1:17.7 twist rate shoot the 18g pellets well and at high velocity (920fps+) shoot the 25g rd Monsters well to around the 50-70m mark then they become unstable. The smooth X A liner with a 1:23 twist rate doesn’t shoot the monsters at all!. The original RedWolf barrel has a 1:16 twist rate and that allows it to shoot the Monsters rd our past 100y as does the Huben with it 1:16 rimfire barrel. The smooth x slug liner shoots them ok but still loose stability at around the 70m mark.
The RedWolf hp is a one trick pony but I don’t mind that as the monster rd pellets are such a good pellet It is very simple to remove the barrel on the RedWolf so maybe if you want to shoot shorter pellets a barrel specifically for them is the way to go?
One barrel that does it all.. If you can prove it can shoot those 3 pellets optimally I will buy one
Good luck
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Well, all I will say is I bought my REDWOLF because I liked many of it’s features, looks, trigger, electronics, “accuracy” and I like LW poly barrels! ( I have 4 now ) plus I was very lucky to have a friend that has both a MCT & a REDWOLF, so was able to shoot both quite a bit before my purchase! And really don’t care what twist the barrel is? Will match the pellet to the barrel not the other way around (have an excuse to shoot more ha,ha!)And the gun does exactly what I ask of it...simple! Also want to add I purchased this rifle for pure fun and enjoyment!, not for competition ( Maybe a local “beer” shoot or two?)
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Check out what the Redesigned Monsters can do with the right barrel and velocity. Not sure if this is the smooth x B liner
https://www.facebook.com/2033398870283179/posts/2341853159437747/
https://www.facebook.com/2033398870283179/posts/2341853159437747/
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Very impressive, sounds like FX is your gun of choice? Awsome! But also sounds like you don’t know anymore about the barrel that shot those groups than Daystate owners know about ART barrels...
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I just have to throw this into the mix!, all this barrel twist rate debate reminds me of the BARTLEIN “GAIN TWIST”/ SHILEN “RATCHET RIFLED” barrels! Are you listening DAYSTATE? “GAIN TWIST”!
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I doub't Daystate even know who Thomas Airguns are let alone copy them.
Don't forget Daystate did a .22 rimfire barrel in their air rifles to shoot bullets years go, don't fall into the trap that FX has invented the slug/bullet from an airgun idea.
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I want to give credit to FX!, because what they have done is Genius... they have developed a manufacturing process that allows them to make unlimited amounts of barrel configurations in little time with reduced cost (minus the costs of the engineering/production of machine itself) in manufacturing which in turn allows for more cost effective time researching & testing these barrel configurations with all kinds of projectiles!,plus it’s all kept in house under their control and I’m sure with several patents by them? Fx in turn engineered a way to make this thin barrel/liner work ( and work well “accurate”) in a commercially successful way! Kudos to them, not necessarily my “cup of tea” but you can’t deny their engineering/manufacturing/marketing success!
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I was under the impression the smooth twist was initially brought forward by Ben Taylor and then adopted by Fredrick and perfected the manufacturing.
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With all due respect Daystate rejected the smooth twist technology before FX got the rights from Ben Taylor.
I will agree though it is genius to be in control of your manufacturing and not relying on a barrel manufacturer to supply the most critical part of your product, Walther, as used by Daystate carries a huge amount of kudos in the shooting world.
I will agree though it is genius to be in control of your manufacturing and not relying on a barrel manufacturer to supply the most critical part of your product, Walther, as used by Daystate carries a huge amount of kudos in the shooting world.
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Yes, but lets not confuse original smooth twist with what fx is promoting now which is a “Rifled Liner” called smooth twist-X, now I may be wrong but the two look completely different to my un-educated eyes? Spray1, it’s all relative now because for FX or even Daystate is it the most critical part?
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Well!!!!!!
How about we look at it from this point of view nomojo, the original smooth twist marketing was that only a short portion of rifling would give us better accuraccy.
A 180 degree turn now tells us that full length rifling is better!
In my eyes (as a fully trained machinist and engineer) is that the STX is nothing more than the same process applied to the whole length of the barrel, or liner, or whichever you want to call it this week, the rifling form may be slightly different and undoubtedly FX have worked to develop this but the principle is the same, squeeze a thin internally polished tube which you pay $10 for from the outside and hey presto you have a barrel.
It is the genius that is FX, high volume, high margin processes enabling you to make guns very quickly, nothing wrong with that of course.
Anyways back to the ART barrel, hopefully we will have a date set shortly for next week to do some further testing and keep all you guys informed of the results which I am sure you are anxious to hear.
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Nice. That’s about the same as I get with the RD Monsters in my EDGun R3 Long with the 1:16 LW barrel at 910 FPS.
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I can’t wait to get out and shoot some targets , let’s hope this weather does one !! These high winds are a joke !!! Indoors , 100 yards ... o yeah baby , can’t wait !! Let’s we what it can do !
Rog
Rog
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If you look at what Daystate is trying to do it all makes sense Start with what we know.
The work Ken and Michael have done have yielded great results. At a velocity of 940fps Michael won the FT competition at EBR with a perfect score clearing the course. 940fps being the info we need.
Ken has shot the RD Monsters up to 1000fps out of his RedWolf but to generate that power the electronics get warm but the pellets stay stable! So the Monsters seem to work best from around 940 to 1000fps
To get the 18g pellets stable we need to slow down the twist rate. Not by much. They are just outside there operating window if you like.
If instead of twist rate we convert to spin rate the pellet at 940fps shot through a 1:16 twist barrel is spinning at 705 revolutions per second. So now with the extra power Daystate’s new electronics afford them we lower the twist rate to 1:17. and shoot them at 1000fps. The spin rate now? 705.8.
Down at 1:17 it’s enough that 18g pellets are stable.
So my uneducated guess is the new twist rate isn’t that much slower at all. Just slow enough at one end of the scale to stabilise the 18g pellets and now with 65fpe powerful enough to stabilise the heavier pellets at the other end of the scale.
This really would take advantage of the ability to change the power output You could easily do it in the field From 30fpe to 65fpe at the click of a switch
The work Ken and Michael have done have yielded great results. At a velocity of 940fps Michael won the FT competition at EBR with a perfect score clearing the course. 940fps being the info we need.
Ken has shot the RD Monsters up to 1000fps out of his RedWolf but to generate that power the electronics get warm but the pellets stay stable! So the Monsters seem to work best from around 940 to 1000fps
To get the 18g pellets stable we need to slow down the twist rate. Not by much. They are just outside there operating window if you like.
If instead of twist rate we convert to spin rate the pellet at 940fps shot through a 1:16 twist barrel is spinning at 705 revolutions per second. So now with the extra power Daystate’s new electronics afford them we lower the twist rate to 1:17. and shoot them at 1000fps. The spin rate now? 705.8.
Down at 1:17 it’s enough that 18g pellets are stable.
So my uneducated guess is the new twist rate isn’t that much slower at all. Just slow enough at one end of the scale to stabilise the 18g pellets and now with 65fpe powerful enough to stabilise the heavier pellets at the other end of the scale.
This really would take advantage of the ability to change the power output You could easily do it in the field From 30fpe to 65fpe at the click of a switch
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