Need your springer advice!!

Forums Springers, Pumpers, C02, & Vintage Need your springer advice!!

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    JoeWayneRhea
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    For me it’s mainly a matter of shooting space . My yard maximum distance is 48 yards an usually I shoot 38 off my deck …A top notch PCP is boring at that distance…And a really good springer is just easier …Grab the gun and a tin of pellets and your shooting . I truly enjoyed my PCP rifles and ha a blast shooting them . But like AJ it was before I shot a truly nice springer .

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    blackdiesel
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    We are having a big fun shoot next month and I know there will be some high end springers there.  I will give one a try.  Right now, my thing is long range (100 + yards) plinking so I might be immune to this disease.

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    Jonnes
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    You might, but… chances are you’ll become a slave to the springs. Don’t say we didn’t warn you mate!  😂

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    blackdiesel
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    Maybe.  I can see the advantages of having something to shoot in the backyard.  Not to veer off topic but I just ordered one of those Airmax Varmint PCP and hoping to get a sub 12 FPE transfer port that’s offered for them in the overseas market.  Never thought of a springer for backyard shooting.  But I will see next month when I shoot some refined springers.  

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    Smaug
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    “Jonnes”Don’t even bother with those magnum springers, just go for medium powered rifles like the Air Arms TX200, Air Arms Pro Sport, or a Diana 340 N-tec. 

    
I wouldn’t dismiss them all out of hand, like that. 

    They have 5 disadvantages:

    a) Cost, for some reason, they cost more than guns that are easier to shoot, out of line for the extra materials needed,
    b) (generally) harder to shoot well,
    c) Weight and weight distribution are worse, and
    d) More demanding of scopes and mounts
    e) Harder to cock

    What if you could improve b) 100%, c) 50%, and e) 70%?

    b) by going to a sledge-type recoilless action; problem solved
    c) by going to a side lever. The extra weight is still required, it’s just added to the middle of the gun, instead of the barrel end.
    e) by going to a side lever, you get a leverage advantage, compared to break-barrels or under-levers. A 20 FPE springer takes the same effort to cock as a 15 FPE break barrel of a given length.

    There’s no getting around a) and d).

    It’s hard to have faith on this though, so…ajshoots, if you want to borrow my Diana 56TH for a few months, you’re welcome to it. You only need to pay shipping both ways. Or come visit me, then, you can try my Diana 56TH, Vortek’d TX200, and HW30s too! (I’m 20 miles north of Chicago)

    For high power hunting, there’s just no beating a PCP. For their power level, they’re the lightest and most accurate type of airgun. The only other thing worth considering is a 22LR with good quality subsonic ammo, which shoots @ 60 FPE and is quiet, accurate, inexpensive and light. I’ve even seen some subsonic ammo with 60 gr. bullets, so a full powder load can still be used….

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    Smaug
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    Also, don’t dismiss out of hand a Diana 56TH or 54 in .177. 

    Look at the velocity and energy data for the 54 at straightshooters.com.

    It shoots the heavier pellets well, and not even just the ridiculous Rabbit Magnums, Eun Jins and such. Exact Heavy, CPH, Kodiak, etc. It shoots them hard, flat and accurate; but still nowhere near supersonic.

    .22 might still be more compelling if you would rather have 1-2 extra FPE at 50+ yards in exchange for the flatter trajectory.

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    Smaug
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    Another thing: how about something with a quality gas ram?

    Similar to what I said above about getting around some seemingly inherent disadvantages of springers, this new “spring” technology helps in some regards.

    As has been said earlier, they’re less hold-sensitive than a (non-recoilless) springer because there’s no torque and it has a faster shot cycle. They’re probably better for hunting because they’re not temperature-sensitive and there’s no metal spring to take a set. …and the ones with the Theoben gas ram are also adjustable, power-wise! So if you got a Beeman RX2, for example, and found it’s a bit much, you could tune it down a little, just by letting some air out. Then, if it’s too long, you could have it cut down a bit and re-crowned. Make it into an easy-to-shoot regular magnum, instead of a super magnum.

    ^ I think that’s going to be my next springer adventure.

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    Jonnes
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    The DIana 340 N-Tec is a gas ram rifle that shoots just below 16 F/Lbs, but it still gives quite a kick. I’ve never shot a magnum air rifle that was accurate. Maybe the definition of accurate isn’t the same for everybody, but I want to see at least sub MOA (1/2″) groups at 50 yards before I call something accurate. It just isn’t possible with the recoil of a magnum springer to shoot that accurate, because the recoil is felt before the pellet leaves the barrel and those magnum rifles kick like a freakin’ mule! The Diana 54 and 56 use a recoilless system, and they’re not really magnum springers. Anything above (not advertised, but true) 18+ F/Lbs is considered a magnum rifle in .177.

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    Hammer47
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    A.J. I have an anib HW30 in 22 cal available.  If you have an interest pm me.  Gary

    Joe…I have a very nice 54 in 22 cal available if you are interested.  Gary

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    Goodtogo
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    Well a Diana rws 54 air king…………weight 9.9 lbs cocking effort 39 lbs
    $649
    air arms tx 200 ……………..weight 9.3 lbs cocking effort 29 lbs
    $629
    air arms pro sport………..9.03 lbs……………..cocking effort 39.6 lbs(the shorter under lever harder to cock) I think its 1.25 inches shorter than a tx200
    $779.99
    hw30s …………………….weight 5.5 lbs cocking effort 18 lbs
    $329.99
    np xl 1100……………….weight 9.7 lbs cocking effort 47 lbs. (just put this in since I have one setting in a gun cabinet and it will kill any scope that is not really good lol) soon to be passed on to a nephew that has big arms and needs to learn how sad it can be to keep a scope on it.
    $299 

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    Smaug
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    “Jonnes”The DIana 340 N-Tec is a gas ram rifle that shoots just below 16 F/Lbs, but it still gives quite a kick. I’ve never shot a magnum air rifle that was accurate. Maybe the definition of accurate isn’t the same for everybody, but I want to see at least sub MOA (1/2″) groups at 50 yards before I call something accurate. It just isn’t possible with the recoil of a magnum springer to shoot that accurate, because the recoil is felt before the pellet leaves the barrel and those magnum rifles kick like a freakin’ mule! The Diana 54 and 56 use a recoilless system, and they’re not really magnum springers. Anything above (not advertised, but true) 18+ F/Lbs is considered a magnum rifle in .177.

    I don’t think I’ve EVER shot an MoA group at 50 yards, even with PCP. Maybe I’ll bring the Marauder and Diana 56TH to the range Saturday and see what I/they can do @ 50 with a proper sandbag rest. (hopefully no wind)

    My definition of ‘accurate’ is a little different. 1/2″ @ 50 yds. to me is VERY accurate.

    Diana 48, 52, 54 and 56 are all magnums by your own definition. Check the tested FPE figures on them. They shoot above 18 FPE with most pellets, IIRC. ( I can’t check now, those sites are blocked at work)

    What determines how accurate a magnum springer is is how consistently they’re held during the shot cycle, not just the amount of recoil. Less recoil makes hold consistency less of an issue.

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    Jonnes
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    The Diana’s that have the recoil reduction system can be shot accurate because of that. The 54 Air King for instance (the most powerful one) is advertised 18 Ft/lbs, but you know just as good as I do, that in reality that’s a hell of a lot less.

    But I have owned and shot a lot of magnum springers, and the recoil is just too much. Even if you hold it consistently each time. It’s just a matter of physics. With a gas ram, maybe, or with the Diana recoilless system, but springs torque the rifle with each shot in a slightly different angle so it’s just physically not possible. I dare someone to prove me wrong here. I guess our definition of accurate is different, but that probably has something to do with the fact that I’m a competition shooter. I expect a PCP rifle to be able to shoot these kind of groups at 50 yards, otherwise it’s not up to my personal standards. With my Diana 340 I’m able to shoot 1/2″ groups also at that range. 

    But again, and I can’t stress that enough, that’s what I expect from a rifle. If it can’t do that, it’s not a gun for me.  ;) 
     

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    Goodtogo
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    One of the first things I noticed when I had a fwb 300 apart was the double spring with the spacer in between, with one twisted one direction and the other spring the opposite direction. I guess their way to cut down on spring torque? I wonder if that method would help a magnum springer any?  The magnum springers I have owned are ok to hit 4″ plates at 50 yards. And I have a magnum  now with a nitro piston but not worth the effort to me.

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    Smaug
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    Post deleted.

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    Jonnes
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    @goodtogo; there’s an interesting theory. My guess is you’ll get the same results as with a gas ram, a nice straight backward recoil without the torque. Interesting enough to do some experimenting with. 

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    T3PRanch
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    Why has no one mentioned Hatsan? :P

    Never mind! ;)

    Thurmond

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    Jonnes
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    “T3PRanch”Why has no one mentioned Hatsan? :P
     

    Gesundheit! Must be the Turkish flew. 😂

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    unionrdr
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    I have the Winchester 52″ long, 9lb .177 cal 1400CS. Dang thing is huge for an airgun! My British Enfield outweighs it by a mere 1/2lb! Have any of you shot this thing? Not a lot of info, video or otherwise, is available on it. I ran into a guy on one of the airgun YouTube channels yesterday that has one & says it is indeed accurate out to 100yds. But his range only goes to 100yds, so he can’t testify to additional range.
    ​In other news, the range around the block’s number is a model train store’s number overt in Lorain now. She said she thought the name was different too, but number is wrong for that one as well. My car failed E-check with low compression, so I can’t drive around the country block to check it’s physical location. Dammit, I’m up the creek without a paddle [email protected][email protected]#%&^$*&…
    ​Anyway, has anyone here shot this thing?…

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    Goodtogo
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    Not sure how accurate a $195 dollar springer will be at 100 yards? You can google the 1400cs and read many reviews.  

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    Smaug
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    “Goodtogo”Not sure how accurate a $195 dollar springer will be at 100 yards? You can google the 1400cs and read many reviews.  

    
I can hit a milk gallon at 100 yards with my Stoeger X20 about 8 times out of 10. So not accurate enough for hunting or target shooting, but accurate enough for plinking. ;)

     

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