Need power increase -- RAW HM1000x in .25cal with polygon barrel

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Bucketboy is the right man. He helped a lot in my project.

You may also ask Martin what was the internal dimensions of old block vs new block. If the outer dimensions are same, you can remove some material from inside of the receiver. This will add to plenum area as per new block.

Then you can add the external plenum. 

Bucketboy may help you in all the matters. I use his designed efficiency valve and SSG.

You are in right direction. Please mention all and also keep us updated.

The Nano reg is developed in UK. It saves a lot of plenum area.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur 
 
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Can you confirm what is the factory reg pressure set in new HM1000X these days ?

Regards,

Bhaur
Click to expand...

My raw just returned from Martin (service & new moderator) and best I can determine without tester gauge is just short of 150bar. I determined by observing coming off regulator as well as watching fill gauge during charging gun (when reg shuts gauge deflects). .25 cal
 
Upvote 0
Can you confirm what is the factory reg pressure set in new HM1000X these days ?

Regards,

Bhaur
Click to expand...

My raw just returned from Martin (service & new moderator) and best I can determine without tester gauge is just short of 150bar. I determined by observing coming off regulator as well as watching fill gauge during charging gun (when reg shuts gauge deflects). .25 cal
Click to expand...

Thank you
 
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Here are some specs and pics for your help,

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Its made of 316 grade stainless Steel. In my country Titanium is prohibited metal so I opted for making the plenum out of solid bar of stainless Steel. The thickness of walls is 2.3mm.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur 
 
Upvote 0
Thank you for the pics. I am trying to get the info for the old and new plenums for the HM1000X guns. Also, what the reg. pressure is set at for the .25cal. When I've asked in the past he told me 150 to 160bar depending on the gun. Two of my RAW's were set at 160 but the last one the poly was set a 150. He doesn't always answer right away. You need a tester. Inclosed are a couple of pics. One is a tester for the RAW's. It shows what my poly gun was set at.
1596220563_7379676525f246493653e63.89156620.JPG
1596220563_14814271925f246493a8abd4.89677151.JPG
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 It is long because the reg. screws into it. If you look closely there is an adaptor screwed into the bottom of it so I can check the reg. pressure without taking the reg. out of the gun. The other pic shows just a simple tester I made for my wildcat to check reg. pressure without removing the reg. It was made before the AMP reg. was used. These testers are made from 6061 aluminum. The set screw is there to simulate a shot. These tools work very well and are necessary when tuning the these guns.
 
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Thank you for the pics. I am trying to get the info for the old and new plenums for the HM1000X guns. Also, what the reg. pressure is set at for the .25cal. When I've asked in the past he told me 150 to 160bar depending on the gun. Two of my RAW's were set at 160 but the last one the poly was set a 150. He doesn't always answer right away. You need a tester. Inclosed are a couple of pics. One is a tester for the RAW's. It shows what my poly gun was set at.
1596220563_7379676525f246493653e63.89156620.JPG
1596220563_7379676525f246493653e63.89156620.JPG
1596220563_7379676525f246493653e63.89156620.JPG
1596220563_14814271925f246493a8abd4.89677151.JPG
1596220563_14814271925f246493a8abd4.89677151.JPG
1596220563_14814271925f246493a8abd4.89677151.JPG
1596220659_19362751505f2464f3ce43f2.23023005.JPG
1596220659_19362751505f2464f3ce43f2.23023005.JPG
1596220659_19362751505f2464f3ce43f2.23023005.JPG
 It is long because the reg. screws into it. If you look closely there is an adaptor screwed into the bottom of it so I can check the reg. pressure without taking the reg. out of the gun. The other pic shows just a simple tester I made for my wildcat to check reg. pressure without removing the reg. It was made before the AMP reg. was used. These testers are made from 6061 aluminum. The set screw is there to simulate a shot. These tools work very well and are necessary when tuning the these guns.
Click to expand...

Mostly they feel that any kind of info is very secret and should not be provided to users.

My RAW HM1000X was also at 152 bars reg pressure from factory and I normally keep it at same pressure. I have also got similar reg tester. 

Your tester and power plenum should be over built. If ever the regulator fails, all the pressure of bottle will come to the tester and/or plenum. So these items must be over built for the sake of safety.

I hope the pics will help you.

Regards,

Bhaur 
 

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Upvote 0
Martin got back with me but didn't answer all my questions. I had asked what the plenum sizes were -- old and new. No answer to that. I asked if the external size of the new receiver is the same as the old, no answer. As far as the current builds goes the reg. settings are between 130 -135bar also a new regulator would be needed because the thread size is larger with the larger plenum. I guess I'll have to call to get all the questions answered. He did say that with the new receiver and the added external plenum the 34gr, didn't say pellet or slug, would shoot in the high 900's. A bit vague.
 
Upvote 0
Martin got back with me but didn't answer all my questions. I had asked what the plenum sizes were -- old and new. No answer to that. I asked if the external size of the new receiver is the same as the old, no answer. As far as the current builds goes the reg. settings are between 130 -135bar also a new regulator would be needed because the thread size is larger with the larger plenum. I guess I'll have to call to get all the questions answered. He did say that with the new receiver and the added external plenum the 34gr, didn't say pellet or slug, would shoot in the high 900's. A bit vague.
Click to expand...

As expected. 

Anyone with the new RAW HM1000X can check the reg pressure and confirm it for you and all the members. 

If they have really increased the plenum size, I understand that the increase will not be substantial. 

The 60 ftlb may be obtained by using other techniques of better and quick air flow.

Regards,

Umair Bhaur 
 
Upvote 0
I am thinking of making the adjustable valve spring in my RAW. May be at some future time. Like the one below made by a Rapid user.

1596514923_4013721815f28e26b2ad0c3.91601493.jpg
1596514923_3237570945f28e26b4782d2.56483910.jpg
1596514923_21367768365f28e26b56d169.25147961.jpg
Click to expand...

Here is the latest on the newer RAW's. Some of this you probably know. This info came directly from Martin so it's accurate. The external size of the receivers is the same as the old except at the breech end it has been opened up to accept thicker magazines to accept longer projectiles. The plenum along with most of the insides have been made larger. That's the reason the reg. is set at 130-135bar for the new builds. As far as the size of the plenums he said that he never has tried to measure them. He most likely made the new plenum as big as he could and still be safe. Buying any of the new parts would have to go through Air Force, so good luck there. They wouldn't even tell me what kind of o-rings are used in the regulator. When asked there answer was ''we don't give out that information''. I don't think they knew anyway. Simply put the newer guns have the capability of more power than the older guns without making any modifications. 

With all the talk about getting more power not much has been said about doing anything to the transfer port. Is it already perfect? I haven't taken mine out to see what it looks like. Good gains in power can be made with some guns by opening it up.


 
Upvote 0
I am thinking of making the adjustable valve spring in my RAW. May be at some future time. Like the one below made by a Rapid user.

1596514923_4013721815f28e26b2ad0c3.91601493.jpg
1596514923_3237570945f28e26b4782d2.56483910.jpg
1596514923_21367768365f28e26b56d169.25147961.jpg
Click to expand...

Here is the latest on the newer RAW's. Some of this you probably know. This info came directly from Martin so it's accurate. The external size of the receivers is the same as the old except at the breech end it has been opened up to accept thicker magazines to accept longer projectiles. The plenum along with most of the insides have been made larger. That's the reason the reg. is set at 130-135bar for the new builds. As far as the size of the plenums he said that he never has tried to measure them. He most likely made the new plenum as big as he could and still be safe. Buying any of the new parts would have to go through Air Force, so good luck there. They wouldn't even tell me what kind of o-rings are used in the regulator. When asked there answer was ''we don't give out that information''. I don't think they knew anyway. Simply put the newer guns have the capability of more power than the older guns without making any modifications. 

With all the talk about getting more power not much has been said about doing anything to the transfer port. Is it already perfect? I haven't taken mine out to see what it looks like. Good gains in power can be made with some guns by opening it up.

Click to expand...

I understand that now RAW uses the same action that they used for .357 caliber. .357 caliber needed a thicker magazine for longer projectile. Now they use .357 action and make the magazine of .25 just thicker to fit in the action. Keeping the same action for all guns saves manufacturing cost.

I understand that by enlarging the internal dimensions of the same block cannot give as high power as 25cc external plenum can provide.

In the past the tuners of Rapid have also enlarged the inner dimensions of Rapid but I understand that the old RAW was really good being a bit overbuilt. 

Now the niche market product is becoming a mass production item. Business is always guided by innovations and compromises.

Finally the transfer port is perfect and you need external plenum and high efficiency valve etc.

I think you can still send your RAW to Martin for customized work on it.

Regards,

M. Bhaur 
 
Upvote 0
I am thinking of making the adjustable valve spring in my RAW. May be at some future time. Like the one below made by a Rapid user.

1596514923_4013721815f28e26b2ad0c3.91601493.jpg
1596514923_3237570945f28e26b4782d2.56483910.jpg
1596514923_21367768365f28e26b56d169.25147961.jpg
Click to expand...

Here is the latest on the newer RAW's. Some of this you probably know. This info came directly from Martin so it's accurate. The external size of the receivers is the same as the old except at the breech end it has been opened up to accept thicker magazines to accept longer projectiles. The plenum along with most of the insides have been made larger. That's the reason the reg. is set at 130-135bar for the new builds. As far as the size of the plenums he said that he never has tried to measure them. He most likely made the new plenum as big as he could and still be safe. Buying any of the new parts would have to go through Air Force, so good luck there. They wouldn't even tell me what kind of o-rings are used in the regulator. When asked there answer was ''we don't give out that information''. I don't think they knew anyway. Simply put the newer guns have the capability of more power than the older guns without making any modifications. 

With all the talk about getting more power not much has been said about doing anything to the transfer port. Is it already perfect? I haven't taken mine out to see what it looks like. Good gains in power can be made with some guns by opening it up.

Click to expand...

I understand that now RAW uses the same action that they used for .357 caliber. .357 caliber needed a thicker magazine for longer projectile. Now they use .357 action and make the magazine of .25 just thicker to fit in the action. Keeping the same action for all guns saves manufacturing cost.

I understand that by enlarging the internal dimensions of the same block cannot give as high power as 25cc external plenum can provide.

In the past the tuners of Rapid have also enlarged the inner dimensions of Rapid but I understand that the old RAW was really good being a bit overbuilt. 

Now the niche market product is becoming a mass production item. Business is always guided by innovations and compromises.

Finally the transfer port is perfect and you need external plenum and high efficiency valve etc.

I think you can still send your RAW to Martin for customized work on it.

Regards,

M. Bhaur
Click to expand...

I think you're right on all counts. The biggest problem is the plenum size for more power. Even his external plenum appears to be a little small. It can't be too big being it's located in the front of the gun. The second biggest problem is the cost to upgrade. To get the upgraded receiver and at least one larger magazine and have it set up we are talking about almost $800. That's just too much money to get an unknown power increase. At this point it would be better to sell the gun and purchase a new one with all the up to date improvements. This gun doesn't have the adjustable cheek piece which is dearly needed now that I want to shoot long range with slugs. If I could buy the plenum and high efficiency valve from your sources what would it cost? Your people are way ahead of the game on upgrading the RAW's. I haven't seen anybody here in the States doing what they have already done. For the moment the gun is going to be used for some hunting so it needs to stay together for now until I decide what to do. I'll use my Impact to do my slug testing if I can ever get the new superior heavy liner. When undecided I have a motto -- ''When in doubt, do without''. Here's what mine looks like.
1596751423_17096024605f2c7e3f281b06.16687350.JPG





 
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Hotair, 

your best bet is to join the rapid7owners club, in the uk. The RAW is just the next generation rapid, parts are so similar that many are interchangeable. Rapids have been available in the uk for 25 years, anything that you can think of doing to a RAW has already been done to a rapid and lots more besides. power shouldn’t be a problem, getting a reasonable shot count without a decent sized plenum is more difficult.


Here is mine with an FX stx liner fitted inside a carbon shroud 

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Bb


 
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Dear Hotair,

Bucketboy is the best person in all upgrades to RAPID and RAW.

Further as he lives in UK its easier for you to get the upgrades from Bucketboy. 

He is in the know in very much details. He can take you all the way through all the upgrades.

I understand that the best option for you is to give this project to Bucketboy. 

I also use many of his developed parts in my RAW.

Bucketboy is a mentor for me regarding upgrading my RAW.

He is right you should join Rapid forum.

I don't think you will need to sell your gun. 

I always prefer RAW guns made before Airforce.

Regards,

Umair Bhaur 
 
Upvote 0
I contacted Brian at Veradium Air. I spoke to him at length, over an hour, on the phone. He is very knowledgeable. He enlarges plenums, makes valve bodies, more efficient valves, etc.. If he can't buy it he has the equipment and the know how to make it. It sounds too good to be true. He also appears to be very reasonable. I couldn't find much about him on line. Being able to talk directly to the person who is working on your gun is a big plus. Turn around time is also very fast. Usually two weeks. Has anybody had any work done by him or know anything about him? If I was in the UK I would most likely use bucketboy for the work. That distance thing really slows me down.
 
Upvote 0
I contacted Brian at Veradium Air. I spoke to him at length, over an hour, on the phone. He is very knowledgeable. He enlarges plenums, makes valve bodies, more efficient valves, etc.. If he can't buy it he has the equipment and the know how to make it. It sounds too good to be true. He also appears to be very reasonable. I couldn't find much about him on line. Being able to talk directly to the person who is working on your gun is a big plus. Turn around time is also very fast. Usually two weeks. Has anybody had any work done by him or know anything about him? If I was in the UK I would most likely use bucketboy for the work. That distance thing really slows me down.
Click to expand...

It sounds to me you have found the ideal person to upgrade your RAW. 👍

There are plenty of Rapid/RAW tuners here in the uk due to the history of Theoben. You are absolutely correct, but it’s not just the long distance, causing delays, US customs can be a real nightmare, parts often sitting in the clearing house for weeks before moving on. 


Best of luck 



Bb
 
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