Need power increase -- RAW HM1000x in .25cal with polygon barrel

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H

hotair

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Nov 16, 2016
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3
ca, United States
Hello. I'm trying to shoot slugs in my RAW .25. So far the velocities for all the 33 - 40gr slugs have been shot with poor results. Most manufactures say to make their slugs shoot the best they need to be going 920-980fps depending on the slug. I know they don't work below 900fps in my gun so now I want to try them at the higher velocities. What have you done to get the RAW to shoot the 33-40gr slugs at 900 plus. The reg. is set at 150bar. The gun is totally stock. The 38.5gr NSA shoots at 800fps.

Has anybody got any slugs to shoot MOA at 100yds. with HM1000X poly, not choked barrel? It looks like this would be pretty difficult since most of the slugs are sized to .250'' and the groove diameter of the gun is .254''. Thank you.
 
Just tighten clockwise the hammer spring adjuster little by little shooting over a chrony. Hope this helps. You might also want to try shooting lighter slugs to save air. I shoot NSA 17gr .22 in my RAW @ 930fps.



1595786984_7899961025f1dc6e8e1b072.01076418.png

 
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I tested a lot of slugs out of my RAW and some were okay but nothing great. We had the same problem as you, so we stuck with testing the lighter slugs. I know there are polygonal, non choked barrels that shoot slugs very well but we never had any success and couldn’t reach the velocities we were seeking. If you really want to go for it, you can start by turning up the regulator or maxing out your hammer spring but that really makes the gun feel harsh. You can always use a heavier hammer spring made for the .35 but that’s going to make it even more harsh. There are different custom valves or other parts from Europe too, but other than that, you’re going to need to open up the air flow or have a custom external plenum made. Do a search, there were some posts here about a custom plenum just a week or two ago. There is also a Rapid/RAW owners group through Facebook and those guys know their stuff. It’s based in Europe though where they have strict power regulations, so tread lightly. They are sensitive about that stuff, especially in an open forum. I’m serious too! If you’re going to shoot slugs, I’d start with the lighter slugs, NSA 25gr are .249” and see how it goes. Good luck, please let us know.

One other thing since you asked about diameter...AVS makes both .2503” and .254” slugs and NSA slugs lighter than 33.5gr are .249” and 33.5 or heavier are .250” Sorry, I was typing this post when Ranchibi responded, some duplicate info.

Stoti
 
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Thanks for the input. I have tried lighter slugs NSA 29 and 29.5's and the fx hybrids. I also tried AVS's 30, 32, 34, and 36gr cup slugs sized to .254''. Nothing really worked. One thing about the AVS slugs, the heavier the slug the smaller the group. I'm trying to use the heavier slugs because they are better at holding their velocity and are much better in the wind, which is a forever problem. At 200yds the other day the windage hold for the 34 JSB's was 10 moa. The 36gr AVS slug was just 4 moa. Looks like getting into the gun and doing some porting may be necessary. I was able to get another 70fps from my .25 cal. Impact MK11 w/pp by simply changing the hammer spring and valve spring and opening the transfer port and matching the probe. The RAW is a different animal.
 
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I have the same gun and my impression is that a much larger plenum and probably opening up airflow is the best route. 150bar is already pretty high in the regulated pcp world. My gun seems purpose built to fire 34gr pellets at 870-920 fps and doesn’t like being asked for more. I suspect more requires a rebalance of the whole system: hammer weight, spring tension, port size, valve. My gun is on its way back from Airguns USA having been tuned with new moderator fitted. I’m resigned to 60 fpe for this gun and do not consider it highly adjustable without skillful smithing. Even so, based on what I’ve read plenum expansion is where I’d start (screwed into the blanking plug hole). The barrel port is rectangular, maybe cut with edc so no easy drill out proposition. I can’t remember the name but there are a couple of fellows in maybe India or that part of the world who have tricked out and heavily modded RAW’s. 
 
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Hello. I'm trying to shoot slugs in my RAW .25. So far the velocities for all the 33 - 40gr slugs have been shot with poor results. Most manufactures say to make their slugs shoot the best they need to be going 920-980fps depending on the slug. I know they don't work below 900fps in my gun so now I want to try them at the higher velocities. What have you done to get the RAW to shoot the 33-40gr slugs at 900 plus. The reg. is set at 150bar. The gun is totally stock. The 38.5gr NSA shoots at 800fps.

Has anybody got any slugs to shoot MOA at 100yds. with HM1000X poly, not choked barrel? It looks like this would be pretty difficult since most of the slugs are sized to .250'' and the groove diameter of the gun is .254''. Thank you.
Click to expand...

I have done a lot of modifications in my RAW guns.

The title of post is "A tale of two RAWs"

I hope you will get good ideas there.

Umair Bhaur 


 
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I would call Martin. I'm reasonably sure the RAW can be set up to do what you want, and I expect Martin knows how to do it. Since he is now running a custom shop, he might be willing to put the necessary time into it, if you're willing to pay. It might depend on the volume of new RAW sales, since he is still doing the assembly. Like most things.....time and money, that's all it takes. 
 
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That's a very good article, Tales of Two RAWS. The work is exceptional. What you've done is what I'm looking for. Being in the states will make it a little more difficult to obtain the parts etc. I may need to try to get more info on your modified parts. I called Martin and found out that he makes an external plenum for the RAWs, and has been doing it for 5 years. I don't think too many people know about it. I'll see where this goes. Thank you.
 
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Mabhaur,

What are the dimensions of your external plenum?
Click to expand...

I shall provide you the dimensions soon. 

But its not just plenum, its also high efficiency valve and 100% sealing O ring system pellet probe etc. SSG also plays a great role.

You are welcome for the info. But I will have to find it. 

The internal volume of the plenum is 25cc. Any dimensions that suits you may work for you.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur 
 
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Mabhaur,

What are the dimensions of your external plenum?
Click to expand...

I shall provide you the dimensions soon. 

But its not just plenum, its also high efficiency valve and 100% sealing O ring system pellet probe etc. SSG also plays a great role.

You are welcome for the info. But I will have to find it. 

The internal volume of the plenum is 25cc. Any dimensions that suits you may work for you.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur
Click to expand...

How would I go about getting the parts that you have? I realize everything has to work together. Is this even possible since some of them are one of a kind? The external plenum is a big start. Being on the other side of the world is going to make things difficult. I have found out that newer RAW guns have a much bigger plenum than what we have. But an external plenum is still needed to get the 33-36gr slugs moving 950-1000fps.
 
Upvote 0
Mabhaur,

What are the dimensions of your external plenum?
Click to expand...

I shall provide you the dimensions soon. 

But its not just plenum, its also high efficiency valve and 100% sealing O ring system pellet probe etc. SSG also plays a great role.

You are welcome for the info. But I will have to find it. 

The internal volume of the plenum is 25cc. Any dimensions that suits you may work for you.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur
Click to expand...

How would I go about getting the parts that you have? I realize everything has to work together. Is this even possible since some of them are one of a kind? The external plenum is a big start. Being on the other side of the world is going to make things difficult. I have found out that newer RAW guns have a much bigger plenum than what we have. But an external plenum is still needed to get the 33-36gr slugs moving 950-1000fps.
Click to expand...

As per my information the new RAW HM1000X has the same size of plenum as our HM1000X have.

The difference may be in the width of magazine slot. They have moved to the same dimensions as they used to use for .357 caliber.

For longer pellets, wider magazine was required. But after Airforce and RAW hand shake, in order to obtain economies of scale and for reducing the machine work for various calibers, they just increased the width of magazine slot of .22, .25 and .30 guns too.



I may be wrong but the advertised power of past and new models is same. Only width of magazine is different. 

I would love to develop similar parts for your RAW, had I been in states or had you been here. 

I understand that getting all this from Martin will be best option for you being in states.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur 
 
Upvote 0
Mabhaur,

What are the dimensions of your external plenum?
Click to expand...

I shall provide you the dimensions soon. 

But its not just plenum, its also high efficiency valve and 100% sealing O ring system pellet probe etc. SSG also plays a great role.

You are welcome for the info. But I will have to find it. 

The internal volume of the plenum is 25cc. Any dimensions that suits you may work for you.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur
Click to expand...

How would I go about getting the parts that you have? I realize everything has to work together. Is this even possible since some of them are one of a kind? The external plenum is a big start. Being on the other side of the world is going to make things difficult. I have found out that newer RAW guns have a much bigger plenum than what we have. But an external plenum is still needed to get the 33-36gr slugs moving 950-1000fps.
Click to expand...

As per my information the new RAW HM1000X has the same size of plenum as our HM1000X have.

The difference may be in the width of magazine slot. They have moved to the same dimensions as they used to use for .357 caliber.

For longer pellets, wider magazine was required. But after Airforce and RAW hand shake, in order to obtain economies of scale and for reducing the machine work for various calibers, they just increased the width of magazine slot of .22, .25 and .30 guns too.



I may be wrong but the advertised power of past and new models is same. Only width of magazine is different. 

I would love to develop similar parts for your RAW, had I been in states or had you been here. 

I understand that getting all this from Martin will be best option for you being in states.

Regards, 

Umair Bhaur
Click to expand...

The information about the plenum size being much larger in the newer guns what obtained from Martin this morning. Both the older and newer guns will shoot the 34 gr JSB's at 900-920fps. More power is available in the newer guns. I'm supposed to talk to Martin this afternoon about what he can do for me. Thanks.
 
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Here is extract from Hard air magazine about AIRFORCE RAW HM1000X LRT
1596051308_4030969965f21cf6cbd6f46.51891105.jpg


But Martin is the right man to believe and Mark B. even more.
Click to expand...

900fps using the 34gr pellets is 60ft lbs. My information about the newer guns having a much larger plenum was confirmed a second time directly from Martin. The Hard Air article is correct. Their meaning of 'high' power is limited. To me 'high' power is pushing a 33-36gr slug at 950 to1000fps.
 
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Here is extract from Hard air magazine about AIRFORCE RAW HM1000X LRT
1596051308_4030969965f21cf6cbd6f46.51891105.jpg


But Martin is the right man to believe and Mark B. even more.
Click to expand...

900fps using the 34gr pellets is 60ft lbs. My information about the newer guns having a much larger plenum was confirmed a second time directly from Martin. The Hard Air article is correct. Their meaning of 'high' power is limited. To me 'high' power is pushing a 33-36gr slug at 950 to1000fps.
Click to expand...

I would still like to know what the dimensions are internally and externally and what material was the plenum made from. Thanks.
 
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There are a few other power upgrades



A shorter hammer pip to allow the hammer to gain more velocity 

1596062940_20928414175f21fcdc347bf3.37300216.jpeg



A short core or better still a nano core reg to free up valve chamber volume 

1596063051_19872796145f21fd4b7cfc34.96809791.jpeg



A valve chamber extension to increase valve chamber volume 

1596063128_6769267955f21fd983e7fd7.93733870.jpeg



1596063210_16769555615f21fdea2ac2e3.09222690.jpeg



Or if you are really feeling ambitious...

fit a bottle and reg and use this as a stock (like a Texan) run an air line from the reg to the bottom blanking plug via a banjo. Remove the bottle valve from the bottle up front and connect it directly to the block, this becomes an enormous plenum. Remove as much material as you dare between the valve and prechamber so the air has an uninterrupted flow to the valve. I can’t find the photos but it has been done and does produce monster power.



Bb
 
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There are a few other power upgrades



A shorter hammer pip to allow the hammer to gain more velocity 
A short core or better still a nano core reg to free up valve chamber volume 

A valve chamber extension to increase valve chamber volume 

Or if you are really feeling ambitious...

fit a bottle and reg and use this as a stock (like a Texan) run an air line from the reg to the bottom blanking plug via a banjo. Remove the bottle valve from the bottle up front and connect it directly to the block, this becomes an enormous plenum. Remove as much material as you dare between the valve and prechamber so the air has an uninterrupted flow to the valve. I can’t find the photos but it has been done and does produce monster power.

Bb
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pics. Because my gun has a much smaller plenum then the current RAWs a small external plenum in the front won't do much, per Martin. Mine needs to be opened up to the new size then add the external plenum to get any major power gains. I'm trying to find out the costs of a new receiver and what it would cost to update mine. It looks like I'm going to make a plenum that goes into the bottom of the gun. It might not be as efficient as the one mounted inline in the front but it will work. I know a 25cc plenum will help. There is a point of no return on the size of the plenums. After a certain size has been exceeded it doesn't do any good. I don't know where that point is.
 
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