need FX Royale reg adjustment help….

Forums PCP Airguns need FX Royale reg adjustment help….

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    TrapdorSpydr
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    replaced the o-rings and set back to original specs as far as length of brass ring from end of body and end of nut from body. Was shooting 25.4 Kings at 357 fps or 7 fpe.  

    I turned the nut down to put pressure on the Belleville washers and by luck am at 907 fps.  Before my gun was shooting at 900+, so I would not even touch it.

    The problem is when I shoot faster or the chrony, the fps drop.  The reg is not recharging fast enough for the next shot.  I mean shoot,write the number down on paper-shoot- low number. Not exactly speed trials. If I wait between shots I get concistency. 

    How do I adjust to let the reg recharge faster?  Or do I shoot it more to let it settle in?
     

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    weatherby
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    “TrapdorSpydr”replaced the o-rings and set back to original specs as far as length of brass ring from end of body and end of nut from body. Was shooting 25.4 Kings at 357 fps or 7 fpe.  

    I turned the nut down to put pressure on the Belleville washers and by luck am at 907 fps.  Before my gun was shooting at 900+, so I would not even touch it.

    The problem is when I shoot faster or the chrony, the fps drop.  The reg is not recharging fast enough for the next shot.  I mean shoot,write the number down on paper-shoot- low number. Not exactly speed trials. If I wait between shots I get concistency. 

    How do I adjust to let the reg recharge faster?  Or do I shoot it more to let it settle in?
     

    
To increase the regulator stroke, you can backout the knurled brass adjustment screw a bit, and decrease the pre-tension of the belleville washers.
    A little bit of tension on the belleville washers is enough, after you have done that, you can adjust the regulator pressure by adjusting the knurled brass screw.
    Try not to charge the bottle to the full pressure to save air. let’s say, 160 bar is enough. You’ll find out by yourself when the gun is dropping off the reg :)

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    sniperlabyo
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    don’t adjust the reg yet till you shoot a full string from 220-130 about 15 seconds between shots. just to find out if the reg is working properly, you want to see low ES like 10fps when it goes off the reg and you don’t want to see a bell curb like un-reg gun. with the full string it will help settle down the reg.

    with out a tester its going to be a miss and hit, since you took pre-measurements your vary close, always adjust one part at a time on the reg so it easy to go back and re-adjust the other direction, if you adjust 3 parts at a time—your in for a long night and hope you have a lot of air.

    I would back out the brass retainer 1/4 turn CCW, piston and washer should back out as one assembly then test.

     

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    weatherby
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    “sniperlabyo”don’t adjust the reg yet till you shoot a full string from 220-130 about 15 seconds between shots. just to find out if the reg is working properly, you want to see low ES like 10fps when it goes off the reg and you don’t want to see a bell curb like un-reg gun. with the full string it will help settle down the reg.

    with out a tester its going to be a miss and hit, since you took pre-measurements your vary close, always adjust one part at a time on the reg so it easy to go back and re-adjust the other direction, if you adjust 3 parts at a time—your in for a long night and hope you have a lot of air.

    I would back out the brass retainer 1/4 turn CCW, piston and washer should back out as one assembly then test.

     

    
Hi Ernest,

    He said:  “If I wait between shots I get concistency”, so we may assume the reg. is working as it should.
    My thought is that the pre-tension of the belleville washers is set too high, and as a result, the piston stroke too small.
    My experience with regulator settings is that measuring with a (digital) caliper is way too inaccurate to set up a regulator.
    The only way to do it properly, is measuring at which pressure the gun “drops off the reg.”,thus my suggestion to fill only to 160bar, and see when the gun is loosing velocity.
    A better way IMO is to set the reg. pressure quite low (knurled knob turned CW a bit) check the velocity, and work your way up until the desired speed is reached (assuming the HST hasn’t been touched). In that case, you don’t need a reg. tester.
    Because the R500 bottle has a check valve, the amount of wasted air is not that much, only a bit of air in the plenum. You’ll need to remove the bottle anyway to reach the regulator.
    It takes some time, but is certainly doable.

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    sniperlabyo
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    we are brain storming his problem with out full data, he stated its consistent—> to what extent the whole mag string ?? or the whole fill string above 200b??? or just seeing 907 fps the 1st shot he took. seeing the full string will determine if its on the reg or not.

    how long did he waited when he got constancy 5 min, 1 min, or 15 seconds ???? 

    did he assemble the reg right??? , there are at least 6 critical area will mess up the reg if not done properly ????

    in what position did he screw in the bass seat???

    Turning the knurled brass CCW will increase the inlet air volume but has limited adjustment—if turned CCW to much the piston cant travel forward to seal the delrin to the brass seat. , if you do this most likely the washer springs need re-adjustment. don’t over tighten the spring washer to much—-at most around 2 turns of spring compression then you can fine tune to your selected speed.

    maybe something simple——> the inlet or outlet hole on the brass seat on the opposite side of the spring washer is partially block/????

    There are so many ways to tune/adjust/reset a reg and this is only mine. after you fix your reg you will have your way!

     
     

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    TrapdorSpydr
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    I just watched your video (Ernest) on Cliff Allen’s post. I will micrometer my reg to the dimensions you said on that recording.  I have listened
    to both you and Weatherby. And I was getting  915 fps readings on a 180 bar fill.  If I quick fired the fps would go up to 925 by the fourth quick shot.  If resting 15 seconds between shots less than 10  fps spread. Dropped off reg at 150 bar.
    The day prior the knurling knob was turned in too tight I feel and the quick fire went from 907 fps to 711 within 3 quick shots. When I turned the knob out 1/4 turn I was getting 915 to 925 in 3 quick shots- way better. Here is the monkey wrench—- when I filled to 210 bar my fps was  812.4 10 sec
    815.9 10 sec 
    820.8 10 sec
    823.0 15 sec
    827.9
    When I would shoot fast, the fps went up to 866 within 4 quick shots.

    As the pressure dropped in my tank the fps rose. 

    I was really happy with the 180 bar fill results to not waste air to determine the gun came off the reg at 150 +/- bar, but at the 210 bar fill the darn thing was  low fps and not consistent.

    I am still on this ride. Thanks to both you ffor the advice. I would be lost without your direction on where to start. Oh, yeah Cliff Allen is watching this I am sure.

     

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    hsnmz
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    Fx uses locktite on the knurled brass nut. Since he has opened it, is it possible that his knurled brass is creeping ?

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    weatherby
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    “TrapdorSpydr”I just watched your video (Ernest) on Cliff Allen’s post. I will micrometer my reg to the dimensions you said on that recording.  I have listened
    to both you and Weatherby. And I was getting  915 fps readings on a 180 bar fill.  If I quick fired the fps would go up to 925 by the fourth quick shot.  If resting 15 seconds between shots less than 10  fps spread. Dropped off reg at 150 bar.
    The day prior the knurling knob was turned in too tight I feel and the quick fire went from 907 fps to 711 within 3 quick shots. When I turned the knob out 1/4 turn I was getting 915 to 925 in 3 quick shots- way better. Here is the monkey wrench—- when I filled to 210 bar my fps was  812.4 10 sec
    815.9 10 sec 
    820.8 10 sec
    823.0 15 sec
    827.9
    When I would shoot fast, the fps went up to 866 within 4 quick shots.

    As the pressure dropped in my tank the fps rose. 

    I was really happy with the 180 bar fill results to not waste air to determine the gun came off the reg at 150 +/- bar, but at the 210 bar fill the darn thing was  low fps and not consistent.

    I am still on this ride. Thanks to both you ffor the advice. I would be lost without your direction on where to start. Oh, yeah Cliff Allen is watching this I am sure.

     

    Have you decreased the pressure on the belleville washers by loosening the lock nut a bit?
    They don’t need a lot of tension, the more tension you give it, the harder it is for the incoming air to overcome the spring tension to shut of the air flow. (air comes in, BV washers are compressed, regulator piston moves in towards the delrin seat, air flow is cut off)
    The needed force generated by the belleville washers to shut off the airflow in the reg. at a certain output pressure will be the same.
    When the BV washers are preloaded too much, your end force will be the same but the piston travel will decrease.
    As a result of this the nozzle, which seals against the delrin valve seat, is already too close to the valve seat in a unpressurized situation.
    In other words, the gap between valve seat and nozzle (piston stroke) will get very small (likely too small in your case), and is struggling to let the air flow into the plenum chamber in the breech.
    I’m pretty confident that when you decrease the preload on the BV washers, and readjust the knurled piston assy until you reach the desired pressure, your issue will be history. Then, the piston can actually move instead of creeping :)

    And the good news is, as long as one uses his common sense, it is pretty unlikely you’ll break something. However, it can be a real PITA to have it adjusted without a reg. tester, but as I read your story, I’m confident that you will have it sorted out :) You’re on the right track.


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    Cliff_Allen
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    TrapdorSpydrI just watched your video (Ernest) on Cliff Allen’s post. I will micrometer my reg to the dimensions you said on that recording.  I have listened
    to both you and Weatherby. And I was getting  915 fps readings on a 180 bar fill.  If I quick fired the fps would go up to 925 by the fourth quick shot.  If resting 15 seconds between shots less than 10  fps spread. Dropped off reg at 150 bar.
    The day prior the knurling knob was turned in too tight I feel and the quick fire went from 907 fps to 711 within 3 quick shots. When I turned the knob out 1/4 turn I was getting 915 to 925 in 3 quick shots- way better. Here is the monkey wrench—- when I filled to 210 bar my fps was  812.4 10 sec
    815.9 10 sec 
    820.8 10 sec
    823.0 15 sec
    827.9
    When I would shoot fast, the fps went up to 866 within 4 quick shots.

    As the pressure dropped in my tank the fps rose. 

    I was really happy with the 180 bar fill results to not waste air to determine the gun came off the reg at 150 +/- bar, but at the 210 bar fill the darn thing was  low fps and not consistent.

    I am still on this ride. Thanks to both you ffor the advice. I would be lost without your direction on where to start. Oh, yeah Cliff Allen is watching this I am sure.

     

    I am definitely watching this post with great interest. After seeing what a daunting task adjusting the regulator can be I’m hoping I can just replace the o-rings and put it back together. Does anyone know the exact size of the o-rings on the outside of the regulator? I can’t find a schematic for the regulator on the Fx website with the rest of the Royale schematic. Also, what lubricant should I use for the o-rings on the regulator when I reinstall it? Thank you guys for taking the time, you’ve been a great help so far!

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    hsnmz
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    Oring size is 11,6×2,4 NBR 70

    Increasing or decreasing the pressure on Belleville washers doesn’t change the length of travel of the piston. It’s the knurled brass nut that increases or decreases the piston travel. If piston travel is increased too much the air will start leaking through the breathing hole. So don’t mess with the knurled brass nut. And that’s the exact reason why fx locks it with a locktite.
    The Belleville washers are just pulling the piston up keeping it from closing. The air pushes the piston down and as soon as the air pressure comes over the washers pressure the reg closes. Tightening the washers increases the force with which they are pulling the piston and thus it needs more air pressure to close the regulator. I have been able to set the fx regulator pressure to 190 bars by just tightening the nut on the Belleville washers. Increasing the reg pressure too much decreases the velocity as it increases the pressure on valve and the hammer spring fails to open the valve.

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    weatherby
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    “hsnmz”Oring size is 11,6×2,4 NBR 70

    Increasing or decreasing the pressure on Belleville washers doesn’t change the length of travel of the piston. It’s the knurled brass nut that increases or decreases the piston travel. If piston travel is increased too much the air will start leaking through the breathing hole. So don’t mess with the knurled brass nut. And that’s the exact reason why fx locks it with a locktite.
    The Belleville washers are just pulling the piston up keeping it from closing. The air pushes the piston down and as soon as the air pressure comes over the washers pressure the reg closes. Tightening the washers increases the force with which they are pulling the piston and thus it needs more air pressure to close the regulator. I have been able to set the fx regulator pressure to 190 bars by just tightening the nut on the Belleville washers. Increasing the reg pressure too much decreases the velocity as it increases the pressure on valve and the hammer spring fails to open the valve.

    I think we are talking the same thing here :)
    What I said was, decrease BV washer preload and readjust knurled piston assy to reach the desired pressure. As far as I understand from TDS’s post, the reg. has been disassembled completely.

    By doing this, the air will have to push the regulator piston in further until the spring force needed for a certain pressure setting is reached. The more preload the BV washers have, the less piston travel you’ll get to set the regulator at a certain pressure.
    With a high preload, the piston will only start moving at a higher pressure than with a low preload, thus less piston travel with high preload. 
    That’s why there are 2 ways of increasing reg. pressure, increase preload by tightening the lock nut or turning the knurled piston assy CCW. By doing it the last way, the piston travel will definitely increase.
    Keep in mind that it’s the knurled screw which is the mechanical endstop of the regulator piston.

    Kind regards,

    Gijs
     

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    TrapdorSpydr
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    I put blue lock tite on the threads because I wanted to be able to adjust it later. It has never moved on its own and requires a fair amount of force to turn. 

    The OEM lock tite, OMG I heated with range top burner to free up.

    also, I moved my shroud 1/4″ further down the barrel so I could remove the bottle for the umpteenth time.

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    mubhaur
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    Dear Sniper,

    I have a question. I have the reg tester. I adjusted my fx royale regulator at 140 bars but it adjusts to 145 bars in around 2 minutes. It may be said that the reg is adjusted at 145 bars but then the recovery time is too long.

    I have kept the brass seat of the reg 1/4 loose. Is it necessary or I should tight it completely.

    How can I bring the recovery time to 5 seconds.

    I have disassembled the reg and lubed the O rings with silicon grease.

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    sniperlabyo
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    See if this video can help, ¼ turn on the lock nut gave me 110b another ¼  turn gave me 130b so it needed 1 full turn to get 145b, tested sat, like two shot 2 second apart was 2 fps different. this reg came off a royale 500 with 145b she was shooting max speed of 945fps with kings

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    TrapdorSpydr
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    I think I recognize my chewed up knurling knob! Thanks for starting work on my Reg. I could have sworn those washers all faced the same way when I took it out of the gun.  The whole experience has been like a bad dream.  The Delrin seat seems like it wore out more as I adjusted it “wrong” throughout the testing.  

    At least my hardship can go toward some public service by your announcing the fix.   

    Thanks Ernest

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    sniperlabyo
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    I resurface the delrine set, shots string looks great this morning — no leak also!

    wife day off, so little time tuning, try to get it boxed up and ship tomorrow 

    👍🏿

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    sniperlabyo
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    I resurface the delrine set, shots string looks great this morning — no leak also!

    that brass knob is lock tight on–can’t help but to chewed it up, I should have milled it square.

    wife day off, so little time tuning, try to get it boxed up and ship tomorrow 

    👍🏿

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    sniperlabyo
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    “sniperlabyo”
     

    
Please delete this post!

    thanks

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    mubhaur
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    Dear Ernest,

    I did the same with my fx royale regulator. I disassembled it. Glass polished the ends of Bavilier washers. Applied thin coating of semi liquid moly grease. But my piston is not that freely moves when I push it. I throughly greased the O rings of the pistons. Reassembled the piston. Pushed and pulled it. It appeared better. Then installed Bavilier washers. Set the reg at 140 bars. After each shot it comes back to 140 but then creeps to 145 bars. The recovery time was not good initially but it is improving now.

    I assume that after the complete service of regulator it might take a few hundred shots to settle properly.

    It recovers to 140 bars in 20 seconds and reaches 145 in 5 to 10 minutes.

    Please extend further suggestions if any.

    Regards,

    Umair Bhaur

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    PlanB
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    im trying to learn this fx tune stuff.
     It seems that if i shoot within 5 to 10 seconds each shot, that the fps rises about 10 fps as opposed to waiting 15 to 20 seconds. does this mean hammer spring adjuster needs turning either way?  or is that just how it is?
    thanks

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