Moved: Vulcan .22 vs FX Wildcat .22

Let first state that the standard rifled barrel puts marks on the pellet. The smooth twist will not. There are some airgun nerds (I am an airgun nerd) who believe that the grooves left on the pellet head actually make the pellet more stable. SniperQTY believes this to be true. The extreme bench rest has been won by both types of barrels so to say that smooth twist barrels are not accurate is an unfair statement. Overall however I think the standard 12 groove LW barrel is better than the smooth twist. This is just one shooter's opinion however. When looking at the photos the smooth twist does not damage the pellets. I think the grooves or rifle marks left on the pellet stabilize the pellet's flight. After all every bullet fired from a firearm has rifle marks left on it. As far as to tell you which gun to get, well the Wildcat hasn't hit market yet. There are more questions than just the difference in barrel theory. The real question is which one of those two aforementioned guns has a better regulator? Velocity consistency makes for an accurate gun.

I borrowed these photos from Wingman NZ and SniperQTY so give them the credit 

Smooth Twist


Lothar/Walther

Smooth twist barrel are accurate only with one pellet so they are pellet fussy and they are also speed fussy...this is the reason I do not buy FX

anytime something new comes on the market there is resistance to change .the rifling of the barrel serves one purpose and that is to spin the bullet .The rate of spin is a factor in bullet stability .But is only one factor .bullet speed and weight also must be considered .This became known to Me years ago with powder burners when We reloaders were sending bullets down range at speeds over 4000 fops .The bullets were becoming less accurate at these speeds and rifle twist rate had to be changed .This is now rearing its head in the airguns as speeds increase .s/t and Lw barrels will both destabilize as speeds increase .Tuning the rifle to the pellet or using a heavier pellet will stabilize pellet flight .Also changing the twist rate and number of grooves of the rifling came come into play .The combination will result in the best shooter .To obtain this people will pay thousands of dollars for a rifle and then send it to a tuner to increase accuracy of the weapon. .S/T or LW it is a matter of choice .Both are accurate .Both shoot some pellets better than others .I personally do not believe than rifling grooves on pellets stabilize the pellet but in some cases can and do affect stability . Especially in a semi dirty barrel .

NC it has nothing to do with resistant to change. You are confusing this crowd with "springer" airgunners. It has been my personal experience that because the rate of twist is slower in a smooth twist barrel the pellet's BC is effected. I like FX rifles too, but I would like you to produce a video that shows a FX rifle push an 18.1 JSB over 1000 FPS and maintain stability (no spiral)

Here's my example:

Please exercise caution with regard to 'Keysorsoze's' pictures (in his first post on this thread, which are sourced from elsewhere anyway).

I don't believe the 'ST pellet' photo shows even the same type of pellet as the rest (in fact I think there may be at least 3 diff. types shown in that post).

Nor are any pellet head sizes given for those photos.

The actual effects of a SmoothTwist barrel on a pellet (of the recommended head size) do not match those shown, to the best of my knowledge.

I cannot comment on his 'hinted at' Theories of Aerodynamics (however, they dont sound er sound to me!) beyond saying I eagerly await his next installment.

"BRS"Please exercise caution with regard to 'Keysorsoze's' pictures (in his first post on this thread, which are sourced from elsewhere anyway).

I don't believe the 'ST pellet' photo shows even the same type of pellet as the rest (in fact I think there may be at least 3 diff. types shown in that post).

Nor are any pellet head sizes given for those photos.

The actual effects of a SmoothTwist barrel on a pellet (of the recommended head size) do not match those shown, to the best of my knowledge.

I cannot comment on his 'hinted at' Theories of Aerodynamics (however, they dont sound er sound to me!) beyond saying I eagerly await his next installment.

Click to expand...

BRS,

Keysersoze made it perfectly clear in his OP that the photos were borrowed from WingmanNZ and SniperQTY. If you want to know the head sizes, why not just ask him? Same applies for the type of pellet used.

Scott

I agree that speed can cause unstable pellet flight . Daystate has over powered some of the lighter pellets in the high power version of some of their smaller cal guns.I believe Ted did a video a couple years ago that a gun was shooting to fast and was spiraling. l/S or S/T can be over powered .Both have good and not so good traits .When properly matched They are both accurate .Sorry but did not get much out of this video .Check out some of videos of the bobcat hunting .Very long shots and good pellet flight .I personally own several guns and the FX Royale 500 is by far the most accurate .

Ncstan,

Funny you should mention the DayState's overpowering pellets. Here is a video I shot on Sunday evening showing my Air Wolf overpowering the 21.1 gr H&N Barracuda Match pellet.

I do not think the grooves left in the pellets stabilize the pellets, my understanding is that it is the spinning of the pellet or bullet itself that creates the stability. Smooth twist barrels are not totally smooth, they just have some rifling in the last 10cm of the barrel. My personal feelings are that the more uniform the pellet is when it leaves the barrel the more accurate it will be, so some of the extreme rifling I have seen left on pellets might not be a good thing as suggested. I have one FX air gun, the Verminator mark one and do not know which barrel that has on it, but it is by far one of the most accurate guns I own and have owned, and so far it does not appear to be pellet fussy as some have suggested, but it may just be because my barrel is not a smooth twist, if anyone knows what barrel is used in the mark 1 Verminator please speak up as I am just not sure! Thanks, Neil.

Travels4fun Wish I could have seen that video 20 or so years ago when We were shooting jacked up 22 250s at 4300 fps .these tack driver rifles could not hit the side of a barn .I am sure You understand the relationship between rifling and the projectile .For those that do not a quick mention Generally speaking a heavy pellet requires more rifling to stabilize the pellet .but other factors play a major part . Speed size .shape are all factors .The spin of the pellet determines the stability Too fast and spiraling occurs It is a balancing act to get the right pellet and power and gun to line up for pin point accuracy .Inside thirty or so yards over powered pellets preform ok for Me but on longer shots the spiral effect kicks in .For the record I Am not saying that L/W or S/T is better or worse .But to have that perfect accurate once in a life time rifle there has to be shooter ability and a balance of speed pellet and rifle .

Ncstan,

Very good info thanks. Now can see why my Air Wolf shoots much better on low power and not hi power. I wonder how I can find a custom barrel for the Air Wolf designed for longer range shooting?

Scott

travels4fun

when you say high power, at what power are you shooting those barracudas?

With my old daystate huntsman I also shoot barracudas at 895fps and I shoot them with very good accuracy at 220 yards. My targets are old tennis balls and I hit them at an average 4 times every 10 shots....the misses hit about 3"- 4" away from tennis ball. You do not need to go over 1000 fps to hit at long distances

From what I understand - the problem is caused from the supersonic pellet transitioning thru to subsonic flight. The speed of sound is approximately 1,127 ft/s but is dependent on air density and other factors. As the pellet leaves the muzzle in supersonic flight as it travels down range the drag exerted on it causes it to slowdown - as it transition thru the "sound barrier" it causes the pellet to become unstable and corkscrew. 22 caiber powder burning rifle cartriges have a "range" of about 1 mile because after being shot it transitions thru the sound barrier about a mile down range and becomes unstable and it's POI unpredictable.

Mike AGT uses a CZ barrel. Doesn't it make sense that I would post a video of a Vulcan since the OP asked about a FX vs Vulcan? After reading the responses it is clear that not everyone reads the whole thread. I don't shoot pellets that fast because generally speaking most regulators are not efficient pushing the pellet that fast. 

*Edited out some confusion related to above replies*