MORE WILDCAT EXPERIMENTS

Forums PCP Airguns MORE WILDCAT EXPERIMENTS

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    Centercut
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    Nice work Chuck. Make sure to look at the entire air flow path from the plenum all the way to the back of the pellet. The smallest will be your most limiting. Making areas larger while not similarly increasing the size of others will only gain you minor benefits. I think you already realized that by your transfer port comments. Also, like Sylan has already said, porting and polishing will give you increased benefits. Keep up the good work! I’m looking at the new Wildcat .25 Compact for a woods walker, and may just up the power based on your experiments once I get it and break it in…  I’m not sure I’ll get it to 900 fps with the heavies due to shorter barrel length, but 860 to 875 would be great!

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    Deleted Account

    Thanks RJ, hsnmz, and Kitpanenut for your great ideas… I went back to work today buy just as soon as I have the time I will get started on some of these things. And by the way RJ, yes I will be doing one thing at a time and then shooting over my chrono to see the effect if any…and then move on to the next thing and repeat the process. I keep notes on everything I do so I will see the results of these things right away. One of the things I am interested in doing soon is putting a lighter valve pin return spring…Hsnmz I will leave it to you to find out what the O.D. and I.D. of the Boss seat is…but if the OD is 8mm and the ID is say 6.5mm as opposed to mine that is 5.5mm ID then we are in business! Hee Hee!

    And Sylvan, I totally agree with your suggestions…when I got my first Huma prototype last summer I had to take her apart again anyway, so I watched the videos by “AirRifleTech” and did the complete Wildcat disassembly and also the Wildcat block tuning. I polished every part with 1200 wet sand paper out to a mirror finish. Regarding your Impact and Crown…they have their place but to me nothing compares to my Wildcat. One of the things I love is its simplicity…you get a barrel, an air tube, a place for the magazine, a cocking lever placed ergonomically perfect, and a stock to hold it all in…there is a saying in my painting and decorating trade that says “Elegance is Simplicity, and Simplicity is Elegance”. To me that describes my Wildcat to a T…Simply Elegant!
    Always the best, Chuck

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    Deleted Account

    Thanks Centercut for your wonderful remarks…and yes that new .25 Wildcat Compact is fantastic ans is going to be a huge success for FX. I believe it will be one of their biggest sellers yet! It is a simple matter to turn up the regulator and add a slightly heavier hammer weight and adjust the HST to get it up to 55 fpe… which should be plenty of power. It is one of the reasons I am thinking about all these experiments, because if it is possible to give it more power and even 10 extra shots with a couple simple mods it will be more than worth it I think. And it would also be a simple matter to put a longer air tube on it also to increase the shot count…who cares if the air tube goes all the way out to the end of the moderator…and speaking of moderators I would replace those baffle caps with a 4.5″ or 6.5″ Huggett right away, because they work great and look so darn cool. 😉 
    Always the best, Chuck 
    P.S. I’ll tell you guys something funny that happened today…the guy and his wife I am doing painting work for gave me a 15′ Boston Whaler! He said he would be happy just to know that I could get some use out of it, cause he doesn’t use it anymore. Wow! Now I can go snook fishing in the intracoastal waterway in Ft. Lauderdale whenever I like…which I really can’t do out of my 16′ Skeeter Bassboat because it sits so low.

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    Centercut
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    When I consider the Wildcat, it reminds me of Occam’s razor. ​It basically states that where there are many solutions to an issue, the simplest is most likely the best… 

    “The razor’s statement that “other things being equal, simpler explanations are generally better than more complex ones” is amenable to empirical testing. Another interpretation of the razor’s statement would be that “simpler hypotheses are generally better than the complex ones”.

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    Rj
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    Congrats on the whaler Chuck . I used to work in the trades, and it’s nice when a customer appreciates a job well done.

    I did a little testing today with the plenum you may or may not be interested in. As you know we have more volume with the huma. But the spacer fits loose and there is air space around the outside that’s not getting used, at least efficiently. So I drilled holes around the spacer to use all of the available air in the plenum.

    Before the holes 140 bar average 920 fps. After, 930 fps but shot count tanked.  Tore it back apart and dropped it back to 130 bar and was back at 920 again, but I could tell it was using too much air for the two mags I ran over the chronograph. Now what to do?  Off to the big orange store I go!  As it turns out, a half inch PVC coupling fits the tube perfectly with a smaller ID than the stock plenum. I cut a spacer to the correct length, sanded and polished it up.  Turned the reg back to 140 and out to the chronograph I go. To my surprise, average over a magazine was 928. And the best part, it appears to be sipping air now.

    To me, it seems a little less volume is more. The stock plenum doesn’t have this much volume. I’ll probably have to tear into again and see what she will do at 150 bar now for curiosity’s sake! What size are the reg o-rings? I’m sure I’ll Need some soon!

    Just thought I’d pass it along, may help with the quest for more power and shot count.

     

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    Deleted Account

    Hi RJ, 
    Sorry not to reply sooner…I’ve been really busy the last couple days. Sounds like your having fun! I experimented with plenum spacer rings from 10.5mm to 15mm and my Wildcat seems to like the 15mm the best. I also have had my Wildcat apart and back together countless times in the last six months doing various experiments. If you email Huub he will mail you any size plenum ring you like…he simply cuts them and polishes them and sends them out to you, and usually at no charge.

    I think your next experiment should be to reduce your reg back down to the 130 or even 120 bar setting, adjust your HST correctly, and you should get lots more shots… this should bring your velocity with the 25.4gr. Kings down to around 880-890 ft/s, which is about the optimal velocity for those pellets out of a smooth twist barrel. Don’t even bother setting your regulator up to 150 bar or above unless you plan on setting up your rifle to shoot the JSB 34gr. MKII pellets.

    At some point you will have to decide which pellets you want to shoot out of your rifle, and then set it up to shoot those at the best velocity/accuracy possible. For example: my Wildcat is now set up to shoot the 34gr. MKII’s at 878 ft/s…and it shoots them lights out accurate at that velocity. But this means that the 25.4gr. Kings are shooting at an average of 970 ft/s…which is way too fast for them to be anything more than “hunting accurate.” At 50 yards the 25.4’s were giving me concentric groups of about 1″…about the size of a quarter…which would be ok for hunting I guess.

    Last Thursday I had a chance to go shooting and do a couple experiments. I put a new shroud tube on my Streamline and it shoots perfect with it on there, whereas the original tube was somehow misaligned and caused accuracy problems, so I have used it all this time with just the Huggett on the barrel. I also put a new shroud tube on my Wildcat…A couple years ago I had drilled holes in the rear of the original tube to release the blast of air from each shot just to see what effect it would have on my accuracy. So I replaced it with a new one because the holes didn’t seem to have any appreciable effect on my accuracy…it only ruined my shroud tube. :-o
    All the best, Chuck

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    Deleted Account

    I almost forgot to tell you guys what else I did last Thursday with my Wildcat! I had an idea to tweak something to see what would happen and the result was that my velocity instantly went from an average of 850 ft/s to an average of 878 ft/s! This equals 58 fpe! You guys have heard me talk about pellet on pellet accuracy at 50 yards before…so let me show you how accurate the MKII’s are at 878 ft/s at 50 yards. These pictures show three pellets fused together where you will see each one hit directly on top of the one before it in the plywood. The scale shows how much the three MKII’s weigh. Target pictures can be easily faked, so rather than show you pictures of a hole in the target paper and hope you believe me when I say my Wildcat is “one pellet hole accurate”, I thought it would be better to show you this. But please don’t take my word for it…try it and see for yourself.

    And by the way, at this average velocity of 878 ft/s, 58 fpe, I am getting 40 full power accurate shots before she falls off the reg…my Streamline is shooting at an average velocity of 876 ft/s, 58 fpe, and is getting 36 full power accurate shots before she falls off the reg.
    Always the best, Chuck

    This is what “Stacking Pellets” looks like!

    Edit: I have been asked if these pellets were weighed and sorted…and the answer is yes they were cleaned in Acetone, weighed and sorted according to weight, and lubed with Napier Power Pellet Lube. These MKII pellets all weighed 33.8 grains. 

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    Centercut
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    Chuck, you’re keeping us all in suspense! What did you tweak to get the extra 28 fps? Inquiring minds want to know. ;) And Chuck shall hence forward been known as “Stack”. 
    Mike

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    Deleted Account

    Hi RJ,
    Forgot to tell you that yes taking your Huma regulator in and out of your rifle to adjust it eventually will have an adverse effect on its o-rings. I specifically asked Huub to design it to use the same o-rings as the FX regulator sleeve does, so that we would be able to get the right size o-rings easily. So you can order them from Service USA which is the new FX facility in N.C…here is the size you need: Wildcat Parts Diagram Location E4 – Part #19497 O-ring 23,3×2,4 NBR 70. Here is link to the Parts Diagram if you should need it: http://www.fxairguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/wild-exploded-drawing-AoA.pdf
    Best regards, Chuck

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    Glem.Chally
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    Great work Chuck,  what did you do to get your gains?  Love the pics and 58 FPE with your Wildcat AND Streamline is amazing that’s huge power.

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    Deleted Account

    I simply readjusted the feeding pin with my depth gauge. Off to bed now but will explain more later…

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    Rj
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    Thanks Chuck. My plan is to run the heavies at around 860. Would like to give the h&n grizzlies a try also. I sure hope I can get close to the accuracy your achieving.

    I’ve been running my probe at about 28.6 mm. Something I always check when removing the air cylinder. Sure don’t take much movement of the trigger group to get it out of spec.

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    GBGUNNER
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      Gentlemen bear in mind when looking for a small leak in a 300 psi air, gas, and steam lines they keep a straw broom in front of them moving it around the line till the leak cuts off a bunch of broom straws to prevent damage to their bodies.  3000 plus air pressure is devastatingly unforgiving.  As long as the gaskets and o rings will hold for a reasonable time the experiments are great.  I would tend to build a newspaper tunnel around these projects and use a rifle rest and trigger string to check for leaks.  GBGUNNER 

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    Crusher
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    Unless I don’t understand something, I don’t think it is 3000 psi that would be escaping when the trigger is pulled. The reg drops that pressure to whatever you have it set on.  So my gun only discharges at 120 bar. 
    But we can always use another reminder to be safe while handling these pcp guns. They are not toys and can hurt you if you get careless or stupid. 

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    Hi GBGUNNER, 
    Thanks a lot for your safety conscious ideas, but I don’t think your going to have much luck using high pressure steam lines to power your Wildcat…wouldn’t that make your air tank to hot? :-o
    All the best, Chuck

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    Deleted Account

    Hi RJ,
    Yea I usually set my feeding pin to 28.65…and check it regularly for any change. Your goal of 860 ft/s with the Heavy’s is great as long as you remember that the MKII’s love going fast, but the original MK1 Heavy do not like going much past 830 ft/s. As far as the Grizzlies are concerned don’t waste your money…they make about a 24″ group at 50 yards. These smooth twist barrels were designed from square one to shoot the 25.4 grain Kings…and will also shoot the 34 Heavy’s and nothing else shoots as well as the JSB’s do. I have shot everything but gravel out of my Wildcat in my experiments! 😉 But your gun may be different than mine…
    All the best, Chuck

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    Crusher
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    “CHUCK”Hi RJ,
    Yea I usually set my feeding pin to 28.65…and check it regularly for any change. (SNIP)But your gun may be different than mine…
    All the best, Chuck


    I went out and checked mine today just to see where she stood. I get 28.64. Good enough, right?

    So let me ask this question:  If I remove the airtube, install the reg and put it back together and the feeding pin is out of place, while I have it out of the stock, I can just move the action around in the brackets just a bit and get it back in the correct place can’t I?

    Crusher
     

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    Rj
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    Crusher, you can absolutely do it that way.

    After having mine apart few times, I set it up so when the action is pushed back to the cheek riser it is within specs.  So action location is repeatable.

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    That is perfect as far as I am concerned Bill…and the answer to your question is yes you can realign your whole mechanism correctly just by pulling the two ends apart and holding them there while you tighten a couple of the barrel support screws. And then of course you would double check your feeding pin with your calipers. Because I was taking my gun apart so many times doing experiments with my Huma reg and different sized plenum rings, I thought of a way to do what your asking real easy. 

    I loosened the two screws on the reload sliding bracket, loosened the four screws on the barrel supports, removed my barrel shroud, loosened the grub screw in the “shroud adaper” (D9). Then I put the shroud adapter in the rear end of the shroud, slid it over the barrel, and then screwed the air stripper onto the barrel as far as it would go. Then I marked the position of the shroud adapter, reinserted the grub screw to hold it in place, and reinstalled the barrel shroud. So now that the shroud adapter is as far to the rear on the barrel as it can possibly go, I pushed the entire gun assembly together so that the front edge of the front barrel support was touching tightly up against the back of the shroud adapter. Once that far I tightened up the four barrel support screws. Then since this procedure misaligned the feeding pin I reset it to 28.65 mm with my caliper depth gauge. Then the last thing required of this modification is to adjust the “metalclevis” (C19) to put the trigger back in a usable position, because the procedure causes the trigger to be out of its former position.

    What this all accomplished is to give me a reference mark so that each time I take my Wildcat apart I just butt the front barrel support tight up against the shroud adapter and tighten the four support screws and I am golden! I like to get out my calipers to check the feeding pin though.
    Best regards, Chuck

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    Hey Bill you can also set it up like RJ does with the mechanism set up so when the rear barrel support is touching the front edge of the cheek rest it accomplishes the same thing. Here are a couple pics of how my rifle looks my way…you will notice there is not even any light between the front support and the shroud adapter. If you haven’t seen my Wildcat before you will also notice that I sanded down the bottom of the pistol grip and the bottom of the butt stock so they sit even and level to the table with my Atlas in this position. It makes it much more stable and not so tippy. You may also notice my Bushnell 4x Prism Sight I use a lot for standing offhand shooting.
    Always the best, Chuck


    On a good day I can hit paper cups at 120 yards standing offhand with that Bushnell 4X Prism Sight about 3-4 out of 8 shots. It is my most favorite sight to use for offhand.

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