Misaligned scope rail left/right. Beyond the ability of scope to compensate.

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tgm1024

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Jan 19, 2020
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Very inexpensive bottom of the line "intro" BB/pellet pump rifle. Daisy 35, with a dovetail mounting rail that seems to steer the scope too far to the left (shoots right).

I'm having trouble finding things online that can compensate for this; there exist some things that are very expensive, or a couple cheap things that seem to do vertical compensation.

I can file the rail, but I'm spooked about ruining it.

If I nudge the scope to the right by using tape under the eye-side mount actually on the dovetail itself, (nudging the eye-side ring itself to the left), doesn't the entire scope then end up straight but "shifted" to the left?

*dazed and confused*
 
Unsure of how to help with the misalignment you have. 

My suggestion is return (if possible) the bottom of the line airgun for another which might not have the same issue. 

OR spend a bit more on another airgun of a bit higher quality as the one (airgun) you are working with isn’t worth the headache or expense. 

Others may have a suggestion for a simple fix
 
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Might try swapping direction of the rings. Also might try shimming between the ring and the rail-shim would need to go between the fixed side of the ring and the rail. I don't like shimming myself but you note it isn't an expensive gun so I wouldn't think you would have an expensive scope on it that could be damaged. Many swear by the shimming method and it could get you close enough for plinking. Thin strips of soda can metal have been mentioned to use for this method but I don't shim rings or scopes myself.
 
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Firstly, let's confirm a couple of things about the way the scope is mounted and be sure that's not the source of the misalignment. Are you using 2 piece rings? Something like this?



And do you have the rings oriented so the screws are on the same side? Both on the left or both on the right.

Also note the clamping plates on most scope rings are reversible. You can flip them upside down for either 11mm dovetails or 3/8" dovetails. The tooth on one side has a 45 degree angle. The other side is a shallower angle...that one is 60 degrees. The 45 is for a 3/8” rail. The 60 is for an 11mm rail. If you accidentally have one at 45 and one at 60 degrees, that will cause your scope to diverge from the bore line.

If all the above checks out and the problem is indeed a misalignment between the dovetail and the bore, you can try deliberately flipping one of the clamping plates so as to create a complementary angle. You may just have to try it both ways to see which one makes it better.

Another thing you can do is cut shims from a soda can and shim the dovetail:



Note you have to shim the fixed side. If you shim the side with the clamping plate, it will make no difference.

A typical soda can measures about 0.005" thick and can be easily cut with standard scissors. Since most dovetails are quite shallow, 3 shims is about as much as you'd want to add. Preferably cut it as a long strip and fold it into thirds so the individual layers aren't as apt to slide relative to each other.

Beyond that, you can look into windage adjustable rings or perhaps tweaking the barrel. Those are subjects unto themselves so I'll stop here for now.
 
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well if you shim it do it on both rings on opposite sides, it should work

use tape to test and then find a harder material for you final mount

it's a 40 buck rifle you could do almost anything to it, to fix
Click to expand...

...

Firstly, let's confirm a couple of things about the way the scope is mounted and be sure that's not the source of the misalignment. Are you using 2 piece rings? Something like this?



And do you have the rings oriented so the screws are on the same side? Both on the left or both on the right.

Also note the clamping plates on most scope rings are reversible. You can flip them upside down for either 11mm dovetails or 3/8" dovetails. The tooth on one side has a 45 degree angle. The other side is a shallower angle...that one is 60 degrees. The 45 is for a 3/8” rail. The 60 is for an 11mm rail. If you accidentally have one at 45 and one at 60 degrees, that will cause your scope to diverge from the bore line.

If all the above checks out and the problem is indeed a misalignment between the dovetail and the bore, you can try deliberately flipping one of the clamping plates so as to create a complementary angle. You may just have to try it both ways to see which one makes it better.

Another thing you can do is cut shims from a soda can and shim the dovetail:



Note you have to shim the fixed side. If you shim the side with the clamping plate, it will make no difference.

A typical soda can measures about 0.005" thick and can be easily cut with standard scissors. Since most dovetails are quite shallow, 3 shims is about as much as you'd want to add. Preferably cut it as a long strip and fold it into thirds so the individual layers aren't as apt to slide relative to each other.

Beyond that, you can look into windage adjustable rings or perhaps tweaking the barrel. Those are subjects unto themselves so I'll stop here for now.
Click to expand...


>whew< That's a lot of great information.

A few things I'll just list out about your helpful post.

1. Yes. Two piece rings, both rings mounted identically. I didn't realize that the clamping plates were reversible for that reason (no $30 to $10 scope had a box that seemed to say anything). I /did/ notice on one of the Daisy uber-cheap scopes that the mounting plates were asymmetrical, but I had no idea that was the reason. The Simmons I chose doesn't have reversible plates.

It was this troubled yoot from walmart: https://www.amazon.com/Simmons-TruPlexReticle-Riflescope-Rings-4x32-mm/dp/B006U0Z59A/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&qid=1579528215&refinements=p_89%3ASimmons&s=hunting-fishing&sr=1-7

I have to wonder: Why aren't mounting rings designed so that there's a clamp on both sides? Default to all the way in on the right, but if you need to, you could modify them both to suit any level of misalignment.

2. The existing rings seem to have teeth that are fairly dull---they fit into the 3/8" rail "tight" enough, but I'm not sure if the shims will stay. I know there's a dovetail variant called a picatinny, and perhaps that's what these rings are meant for (?), though the documentation in the box (and on the box) doesn't say. On the Daisy, it's a very sharp inverted trapezoid, flat on top, and it is very short in height (the top of the rail is extremely close to the rifle body).

3. Any suggestions for inexpensive windage adjustment rings that can fit .375/11mm rails?


 
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Millett makes some inexpensive windage-adjustable rings. Search “Angle-Loc” on Amazon and plan to devote some time to researching the type of mount/dovetail they are designed to fit. Quite a few are for proprietary makes or models. If you can find one that works, they are a great value at less than $20 and they are steel, not aluminum.



Or here’s another option

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G6DYTQ

but you’d need to add an “11mm to Picatinny” adapter to use it…something like

https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airgun-Picatinny-Weaver-Adaptor/dp/B007BNHFLQ



I think the reasons we don’t see the adjustment feature on a broader assortment of rings are:

1. Most times, an adjustable mount isn’t necessary.

2. Adjustable mounts would confuse and frustrate the average person. I suspect returns would skyrocket.

3. It adds cost. Perhaps not a lot if they can remain an extruded aluminum piece but many of the ones I’ve seen are steel. I presume it has to do with the limited thread engagement since there are now fasteners coming in from both sides.
 
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https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airgun-Picatinny-Weaver-Adaptor/dp/B007BNHFLQ

I have multiple sets of these UTG adaptors. They work very well when needed and are easy to use. The rings noted above can address the windage problem but still retain the same "issue" (whether one believes it is an issue or not certainly varies) of possible stress on the scope tube. That ring base can shift the centerline left to right with varying adjustment but when tightened it still tries to align itself parallel to the dovetail or rail. Much like shimming, CAN THIS stress the scope tube? Some say no, others (myself included) say it MIGHT. I won't risk my expensive scopes to such possibilities. Could be a total waste of time on my part but it's what I choose to do.
 
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I had this same issue with my new cheap air rifle, and believe it or not, it was not the scope rail, mine was shooting 2-3 inches off to the right, and needing to dial the windage over to the left so far, that it nearly ran out of travel. Turned out it's the scope that came with the rifle, not the rails. I put a new bug buster on it, and my scope was only off 1/2 inch in windage. A very manageable adjustment. The Scope my rifle came with was the Center Point, and although it was off a mile, once dialed in it held the zero, but I never wanted to continue using it, I would rather change it now, and avoid future problems. 
 
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https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airgun-Picatinny-Weaver-Adaptor/dp/B007BNHFLQ

I have multiple sets of these UTG adaptors. They work very well when needed and are easy to use. The rings noted above can address the windage problem but still retain the same "issue" (whether one believes it is an issue or not certainly varies) of possible stress on the scope tube. That ring base can shift the centerline left to right with varying adjustment but when tightened it still tries to align itself parallel to the dovetail or rail. Much like shimming, CAN THIS stress the scope tube? Some say no, others (myself included) say it MIGHT. I won't risk my expensive scopes to such possibilities. Could be a total waste of time on my part but it's what I choose to do.
Click to expand...


What was a total waste of your time? Did you solve the angle/parallel-to-bore problem another way?


 
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https://www.amazon.com/UTG-Airgun-Picatinny-Weaver-Adaptor/dp/B007BNHFLQ

I have multiple sets of these UTG adaptors. They work very well when needed and are easy to use. The rings noted above can address the windage problem but still retain the same "issue" (whether one believes it is an issue or not certainly varies) of possible stress on the scope tube. That ring base can shift the centerline left to right with varying adjustment but when tightened it still tries to align itself parallel to the dovetail or rail. Much like shimming, CAN THIS stress the scope tube? Some say no, others (myself included) say it MIGHT. I won't risk my expensive scopes to such possibilities. Could be a total waste of time on my part but it's what I choose to do.
Click to expand...


What was a total waste of your time? Did you solve the angle/parallel-to-bore problem another way?

Click to expand...

I had earlier said that I don't shim scopes. I also don't shim rings. I believe that doing either MIGHT load the scope tube enough to cause problems if the misalignment is small and almost certainly would if it is large. That is what I could be wrong about-not shimming things (the simpler cheaper way to correct the problem) might be a waste of MY time and money if indeed such shimming never causes any damage. But I don't believe that to be so. I believe that shimming can and often does cause damage. I can't prove that shimming causes damage just as those who do it regularly can't prove that it doesn't. I don't know for sure so I choose to use adjustable rings when needed to correct such problems. Several types of such adjustable rings are available for elevation and at least the Sportsmatch fully adjustable rings can correct windage as well. I have several sets of the Sportsmatch rings in use, primarily for the elevation adjustment often needed to zero an air gun at short range but I'd rather spend a bit more to have the fully adjustable sets around for cases where they are needed. It doesn't happen often and I don't use them on everything but it does occur and those adjustable rings allow correction of the problem without possibly stressing the scope. I've also used the Millett rings mentioned above in this thread on a couple of centerfire rifles and they can also correct windage errors. But the Sportsmatch rings have always been easier for me to set up than the Millett rings and once locked I've never experienced shifting with them.

Another hot topic these days is optically centering the scope. I'm not sure it is necessary or helpful but it certainly could be. The fully adjustable rings allow one to optically center the scope and then use the ring adjustments to get within just a few clicks of needed zeroing. Without them, there may be no way to have the scope optically centered and zeroed correctly, dependent on the mount situation. All relative.
 
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I think the reasons we don’t see the adjustment feature on a broader assortment of rings are:

1. Most times, an adjustable mount isn’t necessary.

2. Adjustable mounts would confuse and frustrate the average person. I suspect returns would skyrocket.

3. It adds cost. Perhaps not a lot if they can remain an extruded aluminum piece but many of the ones I’ve seen are steel. I presume it has to do with the limited thread engagement since there are now fasteners coming in from both sides.
Click to expand...

(emphasis mine)

Probably not worth the pixels to write this, but the POS rings that came with the $30 scope I bought actually are designed with a threaded rod permanently affixed to the base. So there's no tapped out hole for a screw....there is no screw.

What would normally be a screw head to tighten is actually a glorified nut (wider, with grips for fingers, and a big slot for the case where the rod doesn't poke all the way through it). This rod could easily go straight through the base and be tightened by two such nuts on each side.

FWIW. (Almost certainly 0). {shrug}
 
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Rifle is Hopeless. Scope set up ok.

Got a scope on and at 35 feet, and resting on a stand with couch cushions on it to steady everything, aimed in and cannot get a tighter spread than a 4 inch diameter.

Pellets OR BB's.

At 35 feet.

$35 dollar rifles are not worth the aggravation. This one at least is no where near to the one I had in the early 80's.
 
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Make sure the gun can shoot a group with open sights before even bothering with a scope. 

Its one thing to shoot a tight group so far off to the right or left that the scope can't center on that group.

Its another thing to shoot a random shotgun pattern.

Make sure the gun can shoot a group, then scope it.

If you have a receipt, return the rifle if it won't shoot a tight group. but at $35, you might as well just throw it away.

Some airguns can benefit from bending the barrel but I don't think that's an option for you. 

Sometimes polishing up the crown can help tighten up groups from a shotgun pattern.
 
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In answer to your original question, here is an inexpensive scope mount that is adjustable for windage and elevation. Its a one piece mount so it shouldn't put any stress on the scope tube. I cannot vouch for how well it will hold zero on a springer though.

https://www.amazon.com/ohhunt-Dovetail-Profile-Elevation-Adjustable/dp/B079HSV7M6/ref=sr_1_32?dchild=1&keywords=ohhunt+scope+mount&qid=1582128857&sr=8-32



This appears to be a copy of the Sportsmatch AOP55 mount which would be preferred.

http://www.airguns.net/reviews_sportsmatch_adj_mnt.php




 
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In answer to your original question, here is an inexpensive scope mount that is adjustable for windage and elevation. Its a one piece mount so it shouldn't put any stress on the scope tube. I cannot vouch for how well it will hold zero on a springer though.

https://www.amazon.com/ohhunt-Dovetail-Profile-Elevation-Adjustable/dp/B079HSV7M6/ref=sr_1_32?dchild=1&keywords=ohhunt+scope+mount&qid=1582128857&sr=8-32



This appears to be a copy of the Sportsmatch AOP55 mount which would be preferred.

http://www.airguns.net/reviews_sportsmatch_adj_mnt.php



Click to expand...


Very useful! Thanks. Will consider this, if for nothing else, the next time I bump into this.
 
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Burris signature zee rings won't be the cheapest option, but using the +20/-20 inserts front and back on opposite sides will provide for up to 40 MOA of adjustment (the pos-align inserts are available from zero to 20 MOA in 5 MOA increments). They also eliminate scope damage from the rings. Shimming rings unequally using even very thin materials is a sure way to put dents in your scope unless you lap them afterwards! However, shimming plus signature rings would be safe. I honestly don't know why people use any other type of ring - these things have never failed me from air rifles to 460 S&W and 300 Weatherby, and the scope comes out looking like new.

https://www.burrisoptics.com/signature-rings
 
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