LW19 Steel for LW barrels

Forums General Discussion LW19 Steel for LW barrels

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    mrjohns
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    I have been looking for information on the kind of barrel steel, Lothar Walther, uses for air guns. It states that they use LW19 Chrome Molybdenum for barrels they blue.
    The LW19 is supposed to be a very hard steel, so why is everybody against cleaning their barrels with brass brushes. I don’t see how a rod or brass brush could harm steel that is this hard.  I’m not familiar with LW19.  Does it come in different grades .. One grade for air guns and another grade for center fire guns?  I am not going against what everybody is saying, about cleaning their air rifles.  Just trying to understand what the problem is.

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    Erik
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    Why risk it at all? There is no reason. Using patchworm Works great so why even consider a brass brush

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    Marksman3006
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    Tony.RWhy risk it at all? There is no reason. Using patchworm Works great so why even consider a brass brush

    Agreed. There is no carbon buildup from powder residue. No copper buildup either. You being a fellow powder burner you know how difficult copper is to remove. If you really want to give it a good cleaning……pull some patches through the bore moistened with simple green….available at lowes or home depot. Do this until no lead shows….usually 2 passes…..then pull a couple dry patches through. I will say this…..use enough patches that they’re tight while being pulled through the barrel……just not so tight that they get stuck etc. I think you will find that gets these airgun barrels squeaky clean.
    As to the metal of the barrel…….who knows how hard they truely are. The metal composition means nothing other rhan its corrosion resistance……its the heat treat that gives the hardness. Im not a knife maker but my friend Dan Graves is a knifemaker out of Shreveport Louisiana. Without a rockwell hardness tester…..or details of the heat treat……there is no way of knowing how hard the barrel is.
    I have tried googling this very question you asked because in the end….I would like to know too. I like knowing details like that.

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    scrane
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    I have fearlessly cleaned my airgun barrels with a rod and brass brush . I have found that lead builds up in the breech and choke areas and the brass brush removes it quickly and efficiently. It is not necessary to use a rod and brush every time, but those of you who have a gun that just won’t shoot straight should try it. 

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    ajshoots
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    I do a lot of barrel work. Airgun barrels can and will lead up to the point that heavy chemicals and brushes are the only possible way to remove the lead. This causes no harm to a quality barrel when done properly. There are a lot of myths in the airgun world and barrels have more myths than most.

    No disrespect, but I could run 50 patches with simple green and never get certain bores clean. Keep in mind as velocity increases, so does leading. I have airguns that are extremely accurate, but must be cleaned every 50 to 100 shots and the only way to get them clean is to be aggressive!! After cleaning accuracy is spot on. Other guns I can shoot hundreds of pellets and pull a few patches thru and all is good.

    Read some of Coldking’s posts about cleaning the barrel on his ultra high end Thomas. This guy is a highly skilled shooter and owns the best equipment on the planet. What he does to clean the barrel of a $4000 gun should make you rest easy in cleaning airgun barrels.

    Again, everything has a right and wrong way. Cleaning a barrel properly posses no threat. I do agree most will get by with a simple pull thru and patch. However, rods, brushes, and even chemicals are needed for some. Rod guides and attention to detail are needed in the case of using a rod.

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    Dan25
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    I think some fear the brass brush for what it can do to breech sealing orings.  Yes bbl. steel is hard but heres a thought for you aluminum cleaning rod users.  Like many metals raw aluminum when exposed to the atmosphere will oxidize over time forming a thin layer of aluminum oxide (grinding wheel) of the surface of the cleaning rod.  Then the intrepid air gunner rams that oxide coated rod down his bbl.  If you really want to screw up a bbl. use that rod cleaning from the muzzle. 

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    gamyrick
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    I copied the following, exactly how it appears, from the Lothar Walther web page.

    The airgun barrels are made from special rifle steel tubes and are available in standard or polygon profile. For the highest accuracy possible, the barrel blanks come with choke.”

    There isn’t much information here, however, there is no reason to believe that softer-than-steel materials such as aluminum, copper, lead, and tin would damage the lands of the steel barrel. I’ve used a bore snake in my TX200 and HW90 for better than 6 years without any problems. Accuracy, FPS, FPE and SD have remained unchanged. Personally, I don’t see the need for chemical cleaning but I’ve seen pellet deposits removed by the brushes in my bore snake. 

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    Marksman3006
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    ajshootsI do a lot of barrel work. Airgun barrels can and will lead up to the point that heavy chemicals and brushes are the only possible way to remove the lead. This causes no harm to a quality barrel when done properly. There are a lot of myths in the airgun world and barrels have more myths than most.

    No disrespect, but I could run 50 patches with simple green and never get certain bores clean. Keep in mind as velocity increases, so does leading. I have airguns that are extremely accurate, but must be cleaned every 50 to 100 shots and the only way to get them clean is to be aggressive!! After cleaning accuracy is spot on. Other guns I can shoot hundreds of pellets and pull a few patches thru and all is good.

    Read some of Coldking’s posts about cleaning the barrel on his ultra high end Thomas. This guy is a highly skilled shooter and owns the best equipment on the planet. What he does to clean the barrel of a $4000 gun should make you rest easy in cleaning airgun barrels.

    Again, everything has a right and wrong way. Cleaning a barrel properly posses no threat. I do agree most will get by with a simple pull thru and patch. However, rods, brushes, and even chemicals are needed for some. Rod guides and attention to detail are needed in the case of using a rod.

    I may have to try this sometime to see for myself. Im all ears on this ajshoots. You know more about these airguns than I.

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    ajshoots
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    I think the biggest reason rods should be avoided because most airguns can only be cleaned from the muzzle unless the barrel is removed.

    I only use a rod from the breech end, which usually requires the barrel to be removed on most of my guns.

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    Marksman3006
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    ajshootsI think the biggest reason rods should be avoided because most airguns can only be cleaned from the muzzle unless the barrel is removed.

    I only use a rod from the breech end, which usually requires the barrel to be removed on most of my guns.

    Rodger that. I have a dewey rod and a solid carbon fiber rod. Would have to get access to breech before proceeding.

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    nomojo65
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    There is a thread on benchrest barrel cleaning in the target section, I would never use a aluminum or brass rod to clean any barrel,( use a dewey coated rod ) stainless or chromemoly  and never from the muzzle end! removal of lead is best done with a brass brush or a chemical process, but with chemicals must be careful not to damage the barrel steel you can damage a barrel quickly with certain acidic chemicals, stainless is better than steel in this regard. but I’m no expert!  just my 2 cents.

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    ncstan
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    Question  for AJ shoots .In the militia barrels are You seeing more leading from the breech to muzzle .Or is it located in the choked section of the barrel where the pellet is being forced deeper into the lands .

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    ajshoots
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    The chokes lead up for sure. They are tight, but with the slight taper of a Hammer forged barrel, they seem to lead up the length of the barrel more than a button rifled barrel. That is why I tend to spend a good amount of time polishing to reduce as much as possible. Some TJ barrels are worse than others in this regard.

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    ncstan
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    Thanks for info .quess this old dog will have to change cleaning technique soon .

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    thumper
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    People steer away from using brass brushes in airgun barrels because some old dude probably preached about it years ago, and people went with it. 

    I scrub mine with whatever I deem necessary. And a choke DOES build up lead fouling and can cause some terrible accuracy issues. A brass brush and fouling remover handles this with ease.

    It would have to be some pretty cheesy steel to be ruined by a brass brush. If that was the case, I wouldn’t want it anyways.

    Clean with whatever you feel comfortable with. Go with logic, and what makes sense to you and stick with it. I think you will be fine either way you go. 

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    mrjohns
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    I have learned a lot from benchrest shooting  for many years.  I have bore guides for all of my guns, and I only use high carbon rods on stainless steel. Barrels like the TX200  have (chrome molybdenum). you can use stainless steel rods. You don’t want to use coated rods, Everything will attach to the coating and ruin your barrel over time.  Bill Calfee is one of most respected builders of rimfire benchrest rifles in the world.  His rifles set many records.  I have listened to him on cleaning barrels.  He said “more barrels have been ruined by improper cleaning, than anything else”.  The only thing I haven’t leaned is what chemicals to use, that will not hurt seals. Marksman3006 thanks for chiming in. I know, you don’t want me to ruin that beautiful rifle you sold me. Believe me, I will not. I never do anything until I make sure I am doing the right thing. This will be researched thoroughly.  I  just want to make sure that when I do clean in the future, I do it the right way. This rifle is not a high dollar PCP, but I love it and will take very good care of it. Just like I have done with my Anschutz and my Cooper JSR,
    Thanks for everybodies  help.  This is the best Air Gun forum on the net. I might skirt around all of them for a few minutes but, this where I return to. The people here are helpful and a pleasure to talk to. I hope to be a member here for the rest of my life. 

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